Warning: Mweb will slow down heavy Internet users

[grok]

Because if the abusers get the account for their needs mweb can actually afford to buy more capacity.

I thought that was the reason why MWEB didn't pass the Telkom 30% IPC discounts to their customers last year?

That's why I left them & went with Openweb, they defended their actions telling everyone how their products will carry a premium 'cos they want to provide a 'superior' quality product to their customers .. and now this?

No matter how you try & spin it MWEB's just being a greedy SOB.

 

[Seriously]

Because if the abusers get the account for their needs mweb can actually afford to buy more capacity.

I thought the "abusers" and many others non abusers like me are leaving not upgrading.

 

[PHOBOS]

Because if the abusers get the account for their needs mweb can actually afford to buy more capacity.

We need to know what the limits of all the accounts are so that we can make an informed decision between what we willing to pay and how much data we need.
Rather just make 50GB, 100GB, 250GB, 500GB, 1TB etc packages.

Right now it's left to them to tell us, and they will never chose the right package for our pockets/needs, they will look out for themselves only.
If we use too light little and therefore paying more than we need you think they gonna contact us to offer a downgrade to a lower package.
But oh, download too much and they tell you to get a business package.
Why, do I look like a business, no, I'm a premium/advanced/ or what ever you wanna call it user, and this MWeb account has served me well for the 12+ months I had it.

With regards to IPC cost, Telkom too can go eat a bag of dicks.

 

[Necuno]

We need to know what the limits of all the accounts are so that we can make an informed decision between what we willing to pay and how much data we need.
Rather just make 50GB, 100GB, 250GB, 500GB, 1TB etc packages.

Right now it's left to them to tell us, and they will never chose the right package for our pockets/needs, they will look out for themselves only.
If we use too light little and therefore paying more than we need you think they gonna contact us to offer a downgrade to a lower package.
But oh, download too much and they tell you to get a business package.
Why, do I look like a business, no, I'm a premium/advanced/ or what ever you wanna call it user, and this MWeb account has served me well for the 12+ months I had it.

With regards to IPC cost, Telkom too can go eat a bag of dicks.

Of course we do. As it is mweb can forever change it.

 

[ARM505]

I had a long back and forth when I received an 'abuse' letter as I genuinely did not want to receive one again. Didn't matter. As everyone knows, they are incapable of giving any advice other than 'don't download stuff'. So now, in a truly giant surprise, we get this headliner. Who'da thought it!!

Worded another way: We, MWEB, gave you a variable and nebulous policy which we now think you've abused, even though we can't define the term, nor tell you how to avoid it. We will now slow your connection down because we say so. Oh, and f*** you customer, you're wrong. (Note for PR department - that's called 'doing it wrong'!)

 

[daveza]

Note for PR department

If they do have a PR department I hope they don't pay them this month.

 

[Bern]

If they can't handle "normal" adsl usage wtf is going to happen when vdsl rolls out??

The backhaul is not the same, MSANs have MetroEthernet fibre links, many ADSL exchanges don't. Thus VDSL has oodles of capacity and pricing to match while ADSL is on legacy national and metro networks which cost a lot more per Mb.

In fact I would love to know the price difference for the cable cost for a PRI link vs a fibre link, trenching is the same, but I am willing to bet the fibre is the cheaper cable and has less maintenance and threat costs. Transceivers are also not nearly as expensive as they once were.

I would like to know if anyone received a letter who ONLY ran steam updates - as in NO torrents at all. Not "just a few torrents" (ja right), I mean none, and then maybe video streaming services and normal web browsing along with that, no sneaky SSH and HTTPS type tunnels for downloads stuff.

 

[Paul Hjul]

yep I have know one customer who has no idea how to use torrents or sneaky SSH or HTTPS stuff and have a household of 3 devices a laptop, a desktop and an iPad with two users both aged over 60 who have got the letter. There usage is primarily youtube and skype. Of course they aren't DSTV on demand users - and that is the common denominator.

 

[Bern]

yep I have know one customer who has no idea how to use torrents or sneaky SSH or HTTPS stuff and have a household of 3 devices a laptop, a desktop and an iPad with two users both aged over 60 who have got the letter. There usage is primarily youtube and skype. Of course they aren't DSTV on demand users - and that is the common denominator.

Paul maybe they have a neighbour who has managed to crack their wireless and that is the issue? Ask them to go in to the MWEB panel and check their usage stats, if possible let us know here as this would be a nice use case to prove MWEB are not being fair in their application. I don't really believe a lot of the guys on the forum when they moan as the typical profile here is HEAVY internet user and doing a "few" torrents means maxing it out overnight every night. I suspect most of the 3% are in this forum.

 

[Paul Hjul]

nope less than a 120 gigs a month used.

and their neighbours are unlikely to be savvy enough either. The data will form part of the complaint to ISPA.

I will actually be requesting guys at under 120gigs who are prepared to take this on to email me their details. There is something very rotten with MWeb at the moment.

 

[Necuno]

Yes I am

/Naspers approved

 

[daveza]

the typical profile here is HEAVY internet user and doing a "few" torrents means maxing it out overnight every night. I suspect most of the 3% are in this forum.

I think it's all the guys from PD.

 

[Bern]

nope less than a 120 gigs a month used.

and their neighbours are unlikely to be savvy enough either. The data will form part of the complaint to ISPA.

I will actually be requesting guys at under 120gigs who are prepared to take this on to email me their details. There is something very rotten with MWeb at the moment.

Ok, that is a bit ridiculous - I checked my use, average 60GB per month, mostly video streaming (international) and Skype, I am actually using a lot less than I thought.

I just get fed up with guys pulling 200GB on a 1Mb line or 600GB on a 10Mb and then complaining that they are getting discriminated against when they are obviously abusing the hell out of the system.

 

[marine1]

Ok, that is a bit ridiculous - I checked my use, average 60GB per month, mostly video streaming (international) and Skype, I am actually using a lot less than I thought.

I just get fed up with guys pulling 200GB on a 1Mb line or 600GB on a 10Mb and then complaining that they are getting discriminated against when they are obviously abusing the hell out of the system.

What the hell is wrong with doing 600gigs on a 10mb line?
Are you freaking kidding me?

 

[grok]

I just get fed up with guys pulling 200GB on a 1Mb line or 600GB on a 10Mb and then complaining that they are getting discriminated against when they are obviously abusing the hell out of the system.

What are you smoking? An uncapped product with shaping to ensure everyone gets a fair deal .. as long as you're not bypassing shaping as per the UAP, how can that ever be abuse?

Some people :wtf:

 

[marine1]

Some people :wtf:

yip

 

[Paul Hjul]

Ok, that is a bit ridiculous - I checked my use, average 60GB per month, mostly video streaming (international) and Skype, I am actually using a lot less than I thought.

I just get fed up with guys pulling 200GB on a 1Mb line or 600GB on a 10Mb and then complaining that they are getting discriminated against when they are obviously abusing the hell out of the system.

And the frustration is shared by almost every sensible person. The problem here isn't that MWeb is shaping users or taking action against guys violating the AUP by using measures to evade shaping and so on. It is an automated system that says "you are using more than x, and we wont tell you what x is, therefore you are abusing the network" that contravenes acceptable practice (by MWeb).

I wouldn't even have an issue if the ISPs raised as a problem the fact that the measures to access certain streaming solutions which I think is becoming a problem even if the intention isn't to bypass shaping. In fact here is the irony users are paying money for video content to foreign service providers which they can only access to the detriment of the ADSL network and which is accessed on demand (so only downloading what they consume)- whereas if those users used shaped services to download in an attended fashion the ISPs management systems would enable "fairness". The big thorn here is that as a content company Naspers is to blame for the state of affairs.

I was giving some thought to the restaurant analogy and I think it is quite apt to think of an uncapped account as a dinning hall with a canteen and there is a queue at the serving station. Every time you take up data you are taking food at the serving point.
I think the kids who want to eat a lot should have to spend as much time in the dining hall as possible and when there are lots of kids wanting food stand back; that more than concerning ourselves with how much who is eating we should look out for kids jumping the queue and pushing each other and that sort of thing. The rules should provide that the more you eat the further back in the queue you go and that when the queue is full the guys only eat three times a day rather than all day get to the front of the queue. MWeb is behaving like a bully who walks in and tells all the fat kids to go on diet.

I am getting up to 200 gigs on my 1Mb account (my line speed is actually 4 meg and I have a 20gig TI account as well) but if my network speeds drop horribly because of the shaping and network congestion from Afrihost I know why - the thin kids want some food - I only complain about my line once I've established an actual problem. Some months I don't use any data at all - because I am not hungry.

 

[Necuno]

What the hell is wrong with doing 600gigs on a 10mb line?
Are you freaking kidding me?

Perhaps he's referring to what we know as a single person in a basement?

 

[SeRpEnT]

I guess this it like anything these days, all getting smaller, less for more.
Like coke changing their cans from 340ml to 330ml, all gold from 750ml to 700ml, Cadbury slabs from 100g to 90g, soap bars from 100g to 90g, and so the list goes on....

Spot on. And there are many more examples. But does this also happen overseas or is this a unique South African trick to cheat and rob the consumer?

 

[Bern]

Paul I like your restaurant analogy, there are some fat kids in this forum crying about getting pushed back in the queue for blocking the queue and stuffing their faces. 600GB+ is going completely nuts as an average, especially if you are bypassing shaping.

Naspers/MWEB are not going about this the right way, so perhaps the debate should be separated from good, open business practice vs the validity of shaping/throttling.

The entire system is contended, so if someone burning 1TB of data a month is not throttled, they will effectively be throttling my connection as I have to compete for bandwidth due to their excess, mostly completely unnecessary use. Kind of like the fat kids at the buffet not allowing anyone to access the food, stuffing their faces and piling food in to a backpack that they will throw away later. Throttling would be more like making you take one plate at a time, finish it then you can come back for more.

Marine1 - 600GB is a lot, sure it is possible, but my point is think of how the pricing and usage models are designed and how completely deviating from this affects either the price or experience of others. Think about it like this, imagine you share your ADSL connection with four people and you each pay 1/4 of the monthly rental. Now imagine one of the four maxes out the line 24-7 the whole month with torrents which means you can't stream video or get a decent internet experience. The problem is you all agreed to pay the same amount and use as much as you like. I am willing to bet you would be throwing your toys in this scenario.

Now try scale this up to an ISP level trying to stay in business while ensuring a decent minimum experience for all their users. Forget HOW MWEB are going about this, that is a separate argument. The validity of needing to throttle to protect other user experience is still valid.

Hell I would love to stream 4k video all the time for R20 per month, but I know it is not possible currently, so am not going to try screw over my ISP to provide it to me for some brief time which means they go out of business and I loose the decent previous service because of this.