We should work together!

[Xarog]

Delusional??? How am i delusional???? If i'm not mistaken, this thread was started by someone who is concerned about the very real gap that seems to be developing between blacks and whites (Correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore if you're neither black nor white, it seems only logical that this is not for you.

By that standard, only women can comment on the abortion debate. By that standard, only rapists and rape victims have a say in whether or not rape is wrong. That standard is absolutely ridiculous.

BobbyMac has as much right as anyone to speak his mind on this issue, and his skin colour is irrelevant to the accuracy of his views. As far as ad-hominems go, this one has got to be the holy grail.

 

[BobbyMac]

Delusional??? How am i delusional????

Well, for one you choose to firmly define your stance as a blanketed Black stance vs "racist whites" who refuse to work with you, yet your connotation is by implication just as racist

If i'm not mistaken, this thread was started by someone who is concerned about the very real gap that seems to be developing between blacks and whites (Correct me if i'm wrong).

I believe that antowan's concerns are nestled in the implication of racism on both sides widening a rift, whereas the shackles of racism should be once and for all lifted so as to allow people to work together with other people, rather than trying to force a colour to work with a different colour.

Therefore if you're neither black nor white, it seems only logical that this is not for you. If you really want to comment, please be sensitive about what you say.

Once again I reserve the right to comment however I choose, and if the mods determine that I am a) out of line or b) categorically insensitive to the point of personally attacking someone then I am pretty sure I shall be reprimanded as needed. I do, however, have the right to participate in this forum however I choose on an equal footing as anybody else. If you think I should not hold such a right, take it up with a mod.

PS: You're awfully emotional about this for someone who'se supposedly colour blind.

I am not emotional about the issue, I am merely pointing out that racial defines stands in the way of progress in South Africa. So whereas you may decide to attack me on my own background, I choose to outline that your view of "racist whites" is, well, by definition within itself a racist approach to begin with. Not to mention rather unwarranted.

 

[KillerX]

I dont believe the whites and blacks will ever 'close the gap' between them. I would love to see it happen - and people come together, and work for a truely better south africa. But from what I see, its not going to happen.

The ANC ESPECIALLY fans the fire every single day with their comments. I read mbeki's speeches, and ministers of parliament. And their message is always clear - you are poor and suffering because of the whites, because of apartheid, because of colonialism. He always talks about the 'rich whites' and the wealth that has to be 'redistributed' (NOTE: NEVER WEALTH CREATION). Their speeches are always from an 'us Vs them' standpoint. Like there is still a struggle going on. They always seperate the race groups- and we are supposed to be a new 'rainbow nation'

When I see the goverment every day being lazy assed, incompetent and corrupt to the core. They never blame themselves - its always one hundred percent on the whites. The average guy in the streets, believe whatever these guys tell them.

If we could just move past our history (remember it, learn from it, and MOVE THE **** ON!) Then we could come together like Antowan is saying. THEN you will see south africa become truely great!

 

[feo]

I dont believe the whites and blacks will ever 'close the gap' between them. I would love to see it happen - and people come together, and work for a truely better south africa. But from what I see, its not going to happen.

The ANC ESPECIALLY fans the fire every single day with their comments. I read mbeki's speeches, and ministers of parliament. And their message is always clear - you are poor and suffering because of the whites, because of apartheid, because of colonialism. He always talks about the 'rich whites' and the wealth that has to be 'redistributed' (NOTE: NEVER WEALTH CREATION). Their speeches are always from an 'us Vs them' standpoint. Like there is still a struggle going on. They always seperate the race groups- and we are supposed to be a new 'rainbow nation'

When I see the goverment every day being lazy assed, incompetent and corrupt to the core. They never blame themselves - its always one hundred percent on the whites. The average guy in the streets, believe whatever these guys tell them.

If we could just move past our history (remember it, learn from it, and MOVE THE **** ON!) Then we could come together like Antowan is saying. THEN you will see south africa become truely great!

Sad thing is that SA has such huge potential, but the majority of the population are either narrow-minded, uneducated, indifferent or plain racist to do anything to help us progress.

I for one would love to remain in SA and serve my country to make it a better place for everyone, black, whites..South Africans in general but I can't do it when every second comment I hear has some sort of racial connotation to it.

 

[stoke]

I hate racists, and I am tired of being accused of being a racist by my governmint, I am also tired of governmint enforcing business apartheid. I am beginning to hate my governmint deeply.

I really think we should point fingers in the right direction, solely at the governmint.

Every time I hear of anybody demanding the service they deserve from governmint I smile, cos that is exactly what a democratic governmint is supposed to do .. serve.

 

[lion_fish]

Delusional??? How am i delusional???? If i'm not mistaken, this thread was started by someone who is concerned about the very real gap that seems to be developing between blacks and whites (Correct me if i'm wrong). Therefore if you're neither black nor white, it seems only logical that this is not for you. If you really want to comment, please be sensitive about what you say.

PS: You're awfully emotional about this for someone who'se supposedly colour blind.

Glad to we are forging on with the silent slogan of Africa:

"Only Whites can be Racists and only Blacks can be Victims..."

And as per Jozi101..."and if you are any other colour, STFU."

 

[lion_fish]

I hate racists, and I am tired of being accused of being a racist by my governmint, I am also tired of governmint enforcing business apartheid. I am beginning to hate my governmint deeply.

I think this viewed is shared by most white people of SA. I too am sick of being a "racist" for the sole reason that im white so i MUST be a racist bullsh1t.

 

[antowan]

That's not even an option. We HAVE to make this place work. Sometimes i have to wonder though if "some" racist whites would be glad if it went under, because then they can turn around and say "i told you so".

There are those. But, I am personally of the opinion that black people should not see white success and fortitude as the result of black suffering. If that were so you cannot explain the consistently poor or relatively poor economic performance of black nations around South Africa.

South Africa cannot wish itself disconnected from the rest of Africa. Black South Africans need to look deep and hard at themselves and ask critical questions as to what they need to change and do to get access to the wealth that whites have equipped themselves to get access to. Remember that most people (black and white) want to better themselves and gain a bit of comfort in life. What is holding the majority in this country back? It is NOT discrimination! It is lack of skills! Simple.

This is the case around the continent! Affirmative Action is a misplaced solution to a problem that doesn't really exist in the way it needs to in order to warrant it. If you do not address the education and skills issue in a qualitative and quantitative outcomes driven manner, this experiment will fail and we will all suffer the consequences.

In the rest of Africa there is nobody to blame except for perhaps former colonial powers (who cannot honestly be blamed anymore) but still are (ala Zimbabwe)...

We need an overhaul and modernization of black social structures to ensure them access to the economy in a substantial way. We need to grow the cake so to speak to serve everybody!

If people argue against this modernization, the economy needs to be restructured, but it will be at the exclusion of global trade, as global trade is founded on western principles, whether you like it or not.

 

[vespax]

Unfortunately our society is currently broken and the only thing that has a hope of fixing it is time. Lots and lots of time. Over a hundred years will be needed. And even then that is not enough, the country needs to head in approximately the right direction for a majority of those years or it will be back to square one.

I spent the weekend with a white family that has struggled to build their business up. They are now doing very well for themselves, and employing a lot of their friends who might not have jobs at the same time. The matriarch (owner) of the family said she thinks SA needs 10 years for the crime and what not to sort itself out better. By then there will be a large enough black middle class that will have worked too hard for their position in life to deal with criminals trying to take it away. She also mentioned that the current gov't is aligned too closely with former criminals (aka comrades) who can't speak out against the current criminals very strongly for fear of losing popular support. I thought she made a very good arguement.

That's not even an option. We HAVE to make this place work. Sometimes i have to wonder though if "some" racist whites would be glad if it went under, because then they can turn around and say "i told you so".

That's like saying whites want their businesses to fail, their property value to fall fast and their pension funds to disappear. Nobody really wants that; white, black, purple, green and blue.

I think this viewed is shared by most white people of SA. I too am sick of being a "racist" for the sole reason that im white so i MUST be a racist bullsh1t.

Amen.

There are those. But, I am personally of the opinion that black people should not see white success and fortitude as the result of black suffering. If that were so you cannot explain the consistently poor or relatively poor economic performance of black nations around South Africa.

South Africa cannot wish itself disconnected from the rest of Africa. Black South Africans need to look deep and hard at themselves and ask critical questions as to what they need to change and do to get access to the wealth that whites have equipped themselves to get access to. Remember that most people (black and white) want to better themselves and gain a bit of comfort in life. What is holding the majority in this country back? It is NOT discrimination! It is lack of skills! Simple.

This is the case around the continent! Affirmative Action is a misplaced solution to a problem that doesn't really exist in the way it needs to in order to warrant it. If you do not address the education and skills issue in a qualitative and quantitative outcomes driven manner, this experiment will fail and we will all suffer the consequences.

In the rest of Africa there is nobody to blame except for perhaps former colonial powers (who cannot honestly be blamed anymore) but still are (ala Zimbabwe)...

We need an overhaul and modernization of black social structures to ensure them access to the economy in a substantial way. We need to grow the cake so to speak to serve everybody!

If people argue against this modernization, the economy needs to be restructured, but it will be at the exclusion of global trade, as global trade is founded on western principles, whether you like it or not.

Great comments there Antowan. Well stated.

 

[skoob]

It all comes down to respect...Treat people the same way that you would like to be treated.

 

[Lord Anubis]

It all comes down to respect...Treat people the same way that you would like to be treated.

Sounds almost like turn the other cheek. Sorry M8. i have to disagree. We are in a fight for survival. Survival of the fittest, richest, surperior etc. No matter if your black or white. If you want to stay on the top of the garbage heap you'll have to kcik and sceam to stay at the top and destroy anything trying to claw its way past you.

We have to face it. If we want to survive we have to be rutheless in everything we do. Try treating a hijacker with respect or turn the other cheek when your shot in your driveway. I'm sorry maybe its just that I've lived in JHB so long and have so many friends that have either been attacked, murdered or immegrated.

SA is a dump. If you stay here do it for maximum profit, stick it to the masses and the man and then leave. Make no mistake that's how 98% of this country are living right now. Probably the remaining majority of the 2% are white hopefools living in fantasy land believing it will all be wonderful and pecefull soon. By 2010 this country will be a cesspool of murderer aids infected butchers. aka ZIM2.0

 

[lsuacner]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=82948 <-- working together.

 

[Skeptik]

The problem is that the ANC government is not coping with their time at the helm. They then look for excuses, such as apartheid and white business, colonialism to blame. White people have become the whipping buys for ANC problems. They rely on distraction politics like street renaming to placate people demanding service delivery.

Also by constantly reviving apartheid they invoke sympathy amongst their followers and bolster support.

The President himself is a past-Master at this. He has even resorted to trying to exclude white people from a feeling of belonging by using the term African to mean black people.

Once Mbeki is gone and we have a less racist leader, things may just improve.

 

[Pitbull]

I agree with antowan

We should all work together and pull in different directions

 

[Telkomhater]

It is funny how my wife and I had a chat recently about something similar. It went along these lines:
The Gap that antowan speaks of is a real situation of two totally different "worlds" existing in South Africa. For lack of better words lets call the one world black and the other world white. These two worlds are characterised by different histories, cultures, concepts of reality, ideals etc. Although these two worlds are vastly different they have the capacity to interact with each other on certain levels.

But unfortunately there are enough differences to make these two worlds completely incompatible. A major reason for this is that the two worlds have two completely different ideas of what is "acceptable" and "what is not acceptable". An example would be the slaughtering of animal in ones back yard for religious reasons. One world finds this acceptable and the other doesn't. Another example would be the degree of loyalty one has to ones leader. One world will follow their leader despite the ethical actions of that leader. The other world will only follow their leader as long as that leader behaves according to their ethical standards.

I guess I am saying that we really need to acknowledge the reality of this situation.

A further reality is the current government falls into the world of which I am at complete odds. What they feel is acceptable I do not. They find incompetency acceptable, I do not. They find corruption acceptable, I do not. A good example of this is that recent MP who bought his wife flowers (R575 a shot) and billed it to his Department. When he was exposed by a news paper, he said, "Eish it was mistake, Sorry I will pay it back". I find this unacceptable. The current government will do nothing to him. I find the government's tolerance of this kind of behaviour unacceptable. And it causes me to resent them.

So the only gap I think that should not exist and that we should actively fight in bridging is the feeling of animosity or hatred or resentment that exists between these two worlds.

But damn the other world makes it so hard for me.

 

[supersunbird]

WTF

But we've been saying this for the past 13 years. All that we've got in return from white people have been stinkin predictions of how the africans were going to F@*k it all up. I'm personnally tired of walking in on clearly racist moments between my white work colleagues. I'm sick of the way we've kissed so much white @rse, only to be shown the proverbial middle finger in return.

Given all of this though, it's not too late. I can only hope that the whites show some honesty for a change. Yes we have to work together. The alternative is too scary to contemplate.

Yeah well, andf I'm tired of these ANC government officials proving that things will fail, "there is no HIV AIDS link", "crime is a perception", "crime is going down", "there are no problems in Zim", "there isnt a wave of refugees coming from Zim", "telecoms prices will come down".

And Im not a racist, Im now staying with a coloured guy and a black women and my best friend at work calls me nganam...

 

[Milano]

I am not 100% sure that any non-racist people exist. If they exist, they must be a tiny percentage of the population.

Fact: Black people are racist and white people are racist. You can see it in this thread.

Same as any other thread on this forum that deals with race.

Unfortunately, for South Africa as a country, it means that we face a very uncertain future. Mainly whites though because of our minority status but blacks too because every thing comes at a price in life.

There is certainly no quick fix and may there may or may not be a long term solution.

 

[Skeptik]

That's not even an option. We HAVE to make this place work. Sometimes i have to wonder though if "some" racist whites would be glad if it went under, because then they can turn around and say "i told you so".

I don't speak for "racist whites" or any other colour of racists (and mark my words, there are more black racists in this country!)

You seem to be under the misapprehension that there are people who want the country to fail. Let me reassure you that this is just nonsense. Anyone with a brain knows that failure will be bad for everyone. The currency will take a dive (further), investments will fall, property values will plummet etc etc. so who exactly would want that I ask you>???

When people give their opinion about the country and try to predict what is going to happen - they look at what has already happened and add it to what happened to our neighbour, Zimbabwe. With that evidence, things are looking bleak. Even in the past 3 years or so the trend has been quite negative.

If you don't want to acknowledge these things, then keep your head in the sand. It is you who will not even be able to hear the "I told you so's". You remind me of the nay-sayers during apartheid who were warned about what was happening by people like me, and how it would all end in tears and we were ignored. Don't make the same mistake as the Afrikaner regime of the 80's.

 

[Capetonian688]

Why are my posts being deleted? Is this discrimination because I am African?

 

[Skeptik]

Why are my posts being deleted? Is this discrimination because I am African?

My posts are still here and I am also an African

(Sorry for the complex logic, my African friend )