Webserver hosted on ADSL not possible... Or is it?

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Toadflakz

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Hi there,

Knowing a little about how networking and internet protocols etc, work... I have a question up for discussion:

Telkom says that because the IP addresses of ADSL users are dynamic, they are not able to host web-servers on their machines. Technically, if you look at the traditional way that DNS and domain names are used on the internet, this is perfectly correct. But they have forgotten something...

Routing as far as I know works on the principle that 1 router knows that another router knows where a specific address is. That means that Router A knows that Router B knows where Server C is. Normally, this is implemented by having the address of Server C, as Router B's address in Router A's routing table. DNS also works on the the same principle (as far as I know). DNS resolves to an IP address, and then the routing principle comes into effect. Now... DNS does allow for hosts ie servers, to REGISTER there IP addresses with a DNS Server. So, you have a webserver on ADSL. Its IP changes (as it does with the dynamic load balancing system on ADSL), it then registers its domain name and IP with a particular static (static meaning, not on ADSL, ie static IP) DNS server. As all the routers out there know that only that particular DNS server knows exactly where the webserver is, there is no problem with people trying to find your webserver, as they all have to go through the DNS server to get IP resolution, anyway.

The only problem I can see, is that at the moment, domain name registration requires an IP address to which the domain name is bound. If however, the domain name is bound to the DNS server, and the DNS server acts as a redirector to a particular webserver, this problem could be avoided.

Now, my question: Am I right?

I am interested to hear the comments from people who know. I have a limited knowledge and experience with these particular internet technologies.

-Toadflakz
 
In theory it could be done.

Have a look at the services of http://www.dyndns.org/

Some ADSL routers (Netgear???) actually has updating functionality for dyndns built in.

In practice, I don't think it will be a great idea to run a production webserver on ADSL. It is simply not designed to do it and Telkom could at a moments notice block such packets - or reduce the priority of "incoming" port 80 packets to non-functional.

But yes, for testing purposes or getting to data from elsewhere it is a great possibility (provided Telkom agrees...)
 
The day telkom agrees to this will be the day hell freezes over (sorry if I offended anyone with this analogy). Having all their users hosting web-servers will imply more bandwidth on the existing ADSL infrastructure, its bad enough as it is.

They'll probably charge for it (and milk it to death) if they agree to it, but expect a high price
 
I wouldn't use ADSL for business purposes other than browing. For business, one should have bandwidth guarantees, ensuring a quality of service to ones clients.

For home use, it's very easy to set up a DNS record linked to a dynamic IP. I happen to use http://www.no-ip.org/ which has a nifty service that runs quietly in the background, updating the DNS record every time Telkom decides to reconnect me. Works like a charm :)
 
Hi Thimee

Just in response to your post, I'm trying to setup my server to be available for remote access through the net. I'm running a remote administration tool called RemotelyAnywhere (www.RemotelyAnywhere.com). What it does is set up a remote server on port 2000 of your machine and so you can connect to it through any web-browser and see stats, telnet, ftp or take remote control of the machine.

Now, my question is:

How the hell do I make my server available on the internet. I've tried no-ip and once set up and I can ping my router. I'm running a DG814 and I've enabled port forwarding on port 2000 and port 80 so theoretically I should be able to connect up. Alas, no luck.

Any idea's. Just so you know, I'm not that clue'd up on networking but I'll make a plan
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

How the hell do I make my server available on the internet. I've tried no-ip and once set up and I can ping my router. I'm running a DG814 and I've enabled port forwarding on port 2000 and port 80 so theoretically I should be able to connect up. Alas, no luck.

Any idea's. Just so you know, I'm not that clue'd up on networking but I'll make a plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hmmm, i'm not sure how remotly anywhere works, it probably needs a UDP port forwarded as well?

Here's a quick test you can do, if you're running XP/2000. Enable IIS. (Internet Information Server, part of Windows setup). Create or copy a .htm document from somewhere, put it in your inetpub/wwwroot directory. Make sure you can access it locally, using http://localhost/mydoc.htm Then, get your IP address (not the LAN, but the internet one that your router is using). It should be 165.165.*.* for ADSL. From a remote location, try browse the file using http://165.165.*.*/mydoc.htm. Finally, try the address you registered with no-ip, http://myaddress.no-ip.com/mydoc.htm. If all the tests worked, then you can safely say that the IP link is working perfectly.
 
Hi Thimee

Thanks for the response. I've already tried doing what you said but still no grace - I've also tried opening a UDP and TCP port for remotely anywhere and still I get zip. The funny thing is that I can ping the address no problem but no response through any port, even though I've enabled them through my port forwarding section of my router - strange eh?

I've also tried removing the built-in XP firewall to no avail - Maybe my router is performing overkill when it comes to security (thats good, but in this case thats bad).

Oh well.... I'll try figure it out and post some responses. But thanks anyway
 
Toadflakz. You're quite right. You cannot host your own website within a dynamic IP situation because the entry pointing to your domain name needs a static IP address.

What I've found that could possibly be the answer is this: http://www.noip.com which allows for hosting in a dynamic-IP environment. It's free if you use one of their subdomains and something like $20(us)/year if you want to use your own domain name. Well worth it I'd say!

Whether one wants to rely on the 'reliability' of ADSL to host a business website is an entirely different matter :(
 
Subject: Telkom ADSL Router Utility: Daily Restart, Dynamic to Static IP Address Convertor, ADSL Usage Stats

Hi,

ADSL was recently launched in South Africa and we've been using it since January. Our ISP is Telkom and in their wisdom they decided that ADSL IP addresses needs to be reset every 24 hours meaning that you can't run a web server on it.

We've written a utility to solve that. From the Read Me file:

A. BEFORE YOU START

This utility works with the Telkom ADSL Router. It's labelled "ADSL Router Pots" and is a flat beige hub-sized unit. It's manufactured by Marconi. This utility has not been designed for the Alcatel ADSL modem or any other third party ADSL modems.


B. INTRODUCTION

Though the ADSL router can automatically dial up to the internet, Telkom resets the IP address every 24 hours. This requires one to manually restart the router or to connect to it via a web browser, log in and restart it.

This utility will automatically restart the router every 24 hours at the specified time.

The routers external IP address is determined and uploaded to a specified web site. Using the supplied Update.asp and Redirect.asp combined with a free ASP (Active Server Page) host such as 7Host.com your ADSL line effectively is changed from a dynamic IP address to a static IP address. Try the sample: http://free.7host01.com/adslrouter/Redirect.asp

For a short URL use tinyurl.com. Use http://tinyurl.com/dp5c for http://free.7host01.com/adslrouter/Redirect.asp

Your ADSL usage is retrieved from the Telkom ADSL Usage web site http://adsl.telkomsa.net.


C. INSTALLATION

Run the setupkit, Biometrics.co.za Telkom ADSL Router Restart.EXE, and select all the default prompts. After installation run the utility from the Start/Programs/Biometrics.co.za Telkom ADSL Router Restart menu. Enter your ADSL routers IP address, administrator user name and password. For ADSL usage data you also need to enter your Telkom ADSL user name and password.

Click the Update button and the utility will download and upload.

An Update happens every 10 minutes.

Picture: http://www.biometrics.co.za/ADSLRouterUtility.jpg

We are releasing it as shareware. Feel free to add it as a free utility on your web site. Our FTP server is ftp://ftp.biometrics.co.za and the file name is "Biometrics.co.za_Telkom_ADSL_Router_Restart_1.0B.EXE". It's 3.60 MB.

Let us know what you think ...

PS: Use the PAT Parameter to map port 80 to a web server on your LAN.
 
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my domain is hosted at an isp. I then update the redirect page with my ip using autoip publisher. So whenuser goes to domain they come to my webserver. they dont know that it even happens. my ip gets publsihed every time it changes

hope ive helped [8D]
 
yep - noip worcks. Every time ure ip changes ure pc updates the dns given to you by no ip with the new adress...so if someone goes to your dns they will always get the new ip [:D]
 
Hi Guys,

You are able to host a webserver on your dsl box, in fact, you are also able to host a mail server on your box. I'm currently hosting a both on my dsl box and I even have uptimes of 99.9% and higher on dsl. Depends on your setup i presume.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by syntaX</i>
<br />Hi Guys,

You are able to host a webserver on your dsl box, in fact, you are also able to host a mail server on your box. I'm currently hosting a both on my dsl box and I even have uptimes of 99.9% and higher on dsl. Depends on your setup i presume.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Correct, you can host any service you please. SAIX has a session limit of 24 hours which makes sure your IP changes every day. Use a Dynamic DNS site and away you go.

There are bad DNS servers out there that do not clear cached queries properly and can cause problems for a few minutes after your IP changes. I would not suggest hosting anything important on your ADSL connection because SAIX gives you no guarantees.



Apple // Forever.
 
I've done it using ZoneEdit
I have a little script that checks when the modem changes IP addresses and updates the ZoneEdit DNS. Using Linux

Actually my router Netgear has support to do this automatically but only with DynDNS and since I had all ready written teh scripts that works beautifully I never really needed to use this feature
 
A client of mine's dedicated server had a hardware failure last month. As a temporary solution, I've set him up on my server at home with dyndns.org.

I've had the server repaired, but never re-installed it! Saving the client R1500 per month now...

Only thing is when I do major downloading, I get a call from him about speed :D
 
Check out the configuration on quotemaster.co.za for an example of hosting HTTP and SMTP quite happily on a dynamic IP. Far from ideal though [:(!]

mithrandi
 
I set up PAT to fwd all Port 80 packets to an internal IP address on a PC runnin IIS. However it doesnt seem to get there - If I specify the external IP address it just takes e to the ADSL Router setup page (Telkom POTS Router ) Any ideas or help greatly appreciated.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Thimee</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

How the hell do I make my server available on the internet. I've tried no-ip and once set up and I can ping my router. I'm running a DG814 and I've enabled port forwarding on port 2000 and port 80 so theoretically I should be able to connect up. Alas, no luck.

Any idea's. Just so you know, I'm not that clue'd up on networking but I'll make a plan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hmmm, i'm not sure how remotly anywhere works, it probably needs a UDP port forwarded as well?

Here's a quick test you can do, if you're running XP/2000. Enable IIS. (Internet Information Server, part of Windows setup). Create or copy a .htm document from somewhere, put it in your inetpub/wwwroot directory. Make sure you can access it locally, using http://localhost/mydoc.htm Then, get your IP address (not the LAN, but the internet one that your router is using). It should be 165.165.*.* for ADSL. From a remote location, try browse the file using http://165.165.*.*/mydoc.htm. Finally, try the address you registered with no-ip, http://myaddress.no-ip.com/mydoc.htm. If all the tests worked, then you can safely say that the IP link is working perfectly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 
I have written a little program which sends the IP address to your home.telkomsa.net/yourwebspace. Whenever someone browses to your URL it redirects them to your Dynamic IP address and website.
email me if you want it
 
Hosting any service, including gaming, behind ADSL is easy as pie if you have a router capable of doing port forwarding; even better if you have the Netgear DG814 since it supports automatic ip updates via DYDNS. I tried several dynamic dns services and with most of them you had to install utilities to update your url/ip redirection whenever Telkom reset your ip address- no such problems with DYDNS and the Netgear DG814.

I've been running (private) multiple websites, including a secure one on my machine at home and have even tested an ftp server, remote access to a MySQL database and it all works fine, thanks to DYDNS. The only time when my server went down was when someone pulled the plug (literally) on my router.

Vincent
 
SAIX blocked access to dyndns.org for a few days a while back, I don't know if any of the other dynamic DNS providers were blocked too.

mithrandi
 
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