What do you earn as a Developer?

[cguy]

Not really, top end as far as I can see is Uber / Booking at 120k euro - which is just over 2 mil ZAR.

That's achievable here at the top end.

Yeah, don’t use Glassdoor. Levels.fyi tops out at 3x that. These are also far from the most senior roles dev roles at these companies, which pay 2-3x what is listed. So more like R15-20m+.

 

[Gnome]

Not really, top end as far as I can see is Uber / Booking at 120k euro - which is just over 2 mil ZAR.

That's achievable here at the top end.

Salary: Senior Software Engineer in Amsterdam, Netherlands 2023

The average salary for a Senior Software Engineer is $80,000 per year in Amsterdam, Netherlands. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

www.glassdoor.com

Salary: Senior Software Engineer (June, 2023)

The average salary for a Senior Software Engineer is $70,000 per year in South Africa. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!

www.glassdoor.com

So comparing the top end of SA salaries to the average Snr. Dev. salary in NL and saying that you can earn more in SA.
Can you earn more in SA than NL. Yes
On average do people here earn more as software engineers for the same skill level. Hell no. heeeelllllll no.

 

[OkPlankton]

There was a time when if I moved to JHB I could make 50% more without. blinking, that's no longer a thing - and in certain cases for a lot of Europe it isn't either.

Came to jhb and managed to get 200% more in under 3years. *Cracks open beer and puts feet up* I'm happy

EDIT:
FYI, I wasn't a dev when I came to GAU, I learned everything on the job. I know that nulls my comment above but I don't have friends. Let's celebrate my success, beers on me!

 

[Ancalagon]

I have 2 ex colleagues in Sweden and I out earn both.

Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Germany - judging by both offers received (and ex colleagues) are all paying less than I'd earn in ZA. Of course there are the caveats of you don't need a car or private medical or or or - but it's not as attractive financially as it once was.

There was a time when if I moved to JHB I could make 50% more without. blinking, that's no longer a thing - and in certain cases for a lot of Europe it isn't either.

To attract and retain top talent in ZA you have to pay, otherwise they'll emigrate.

That's the exception and not the rule.

I imagine there are few devs in SA who earn R2million plus. For those kinds of salaries, you tend to have to be on a management track, perhaps a director or something. Not many senior devs with no team leadership responsibility can earn that kind of money.

But that is possible in Europe. Senior devs can hit £100k plus equity here without too much trouble. Staff developers can earn up to around £150k depending on the company. Add equity on top of that and it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a developer to pull home R4-5 million before they turn 40 or make director.

Let alone the devs who work for hedge funds or prop shops. If you're good, like cguy, one bonus can be enough for you to retire on.

In summary: You may personally be doing well as a software engineer, but its nothing compared to what engineers in Europe make. And that is nothing compared to what engineers in America make, AND they pay lower income taxes than everybody else (and generally much lower sales tax on everything they buy).

 

[Harmonic]

There are SA devs earning 1.5m+

That's a pretty average American/European salary. When I lived in Amsterdam, mid to senior level devs were earning that. This was 5 years ago

hell SA financial institutions are doing 300-400k+ bonuses too

That's not even a 13th cheque by international standards

 

[Spacerat]

So here are my thoughts about this topic. There are devs and there are devs. I am in the 2nd category .
The 1st category is a dev that just works for a salary. Whatever your skill level, at that level you have an earnings ceiling. The ceiling is determined by your speciality, industry sector and employer location (Europe, USA, SA whatever). Even if you break into management there will be somewhat of a ceiling.
The 2nd category is a dev with an entrepreneurial spirit. Even though i am an engineer, dev is where i started, albeit technical dev. I love developing software, the bulk of my day is spent developing. However, i run my own software company, have my own commercial software products from which i earn monthly income from sales and support. Although i wear loads of other hats, i still see myself as a dev. It speaks to my engineering spirit of creating things. For the 2nd category of dev there IS NO CEILING in earning potential.
The moral of my story is that there need not be an earnings ceiling for a developer. It is up to the individual to a large extent.

This post is not intended to be arrogant, but rather as an encouragement to devs to unleash your potential.

 

[cguy]

So here are my thoughts about this topic. There are devs and there are devs. I am in the 2nd category .
The 1st category is a dev that just works for a salary. Whatever your skill level, at that level you have an earnings ceiling. The ceiling is determined by your speciality, industry sector and employer location (Europe, USA, SA whatever). Even if you break into management there will be somewhat of a ceiling.
The 2nd category is a dev with an entrepreneurial spirit. Even though i am an engineer, dev is where i started, albeit technical dev. I love developing software, the bulk of my day is spent developing. However, i run my own software company, have my own commercial software products from which i earn monthly income from sales and support. Although i wear loads of other hats, i still see myself as a dev. It speaks to my engineering spirit of creating things. For the 2nd category of dev there IS NO CEILING in earning potential.
The moral of my story is that there need not be an earnings ceiling for a developer. It is up to the individual to a large extent.

This post is not intended to be arrogant, but rather as an encouragement to devs to unleash your potential.

While I agree with the “potential” and “no ceiling” aspect of the above, the actual statistical expectation for one’s income is much lower, so I advise caution. That’s not to mention WLB and QoL even.

 

[Bryn]

So here are my thoughts about this topic. There are devs and there are devs. I am in the 2nd category .
The 1st category is a dev that just works for a salary. Whatever your skill level, at that level you have an earnings ceiling. The ceiling is determined by your speciality, industry sector and employer location (Europe, USA, SA whatever). Even if you break into management there will be somewhat of a ceiling.
The 2nd category is a dev with an entrepreneurial spirit. Even though i am an engineer, dev is where i started, albeit technical dev. I love developing software, the bulk of my day is spent developing. However, i run my own software company, have my own commercial software products from which i earn monthly income from sales and support. Although i wear loads of other hats, i still see myself as a dev. It speaks to my engineering spirit of creating things. For the 2nd category of dev there IS NO CEILING in earning potential.
The moral of my story is that there need not be an earnings ceiling for a developer. It is up to the individual to a large extent.

This post is not intended to be arrogant, but rather as an encouragement to devs to unleash your potential.

I used to think similarly, specifically with regard to earnings potential and being a slave to the system and all that.

Then I got a job that pays good money, at a company with awesome people, and forgot about all that nonsense. The stress is a million times lower, I have dramatically more free time, dealing with competent people every day makes me happy, no more clients and all their **** to deal with, not only is pay good but benefits are vast and there's equity etc. etc.

I'll go back to the agency life someday if I have to, but right now I really hope that is never necessary.

 

[Spacerat]

While I agree with the “potential” and “no ceiling” aspect of the above, the actual statistical expectation for one’s income is much lower, so I advise caution. That’s not to mention WLB and QoL even.

Yes you are correct. There is also a degree of luck involved. Finding a well-paying job with a great company to work for is certainly a good position to be in.