What equipment needed for WISP/long range wi-fi ?

[gerasmus]

Here is the situation:
I live on a farm (Ellisras) outside the reach of ADSL (sounds familiar ?) but within range of wisp, the Pta wireless usergroup type equipment.
I currently have a similar 512k setup, provided by our local Screamer agent. However, seeing screamer is in no hurry to drop their prices, and neither are any of the other wi-fi providers I thought to try to build my own link. Now that ADSL came down to affordable levels, suddenly building my own link to replace the much more expensive Screamer link would make more sense.

I would like to build a link from my/our office where I do have ADSL ==> House, direct link, not shared with anyone.
Transmitter/receiver distance would be about 5km in direct line of sight.
Transmission connection: ADSL Line at office ==> Transmitter <==> Receiver dish ==> wireless cable router ==> My 3 gamer PC's.

What equipment would I need, where can I get it, where can I get documentation on how to get started ?

Why not have it done for me ?
There are a couple of companies that can do this for me here in town, but they quoted me at R7 000 to do the link setup for me. Obviously my aim is to save money in the long run plus get a faster connection.

I am currently paying Screamer more than R1000 pm for a phone line and 512k link. Why pay a grand when I can pay R900 for a 4mb uncapped, and when SA gets more bandwith, a faster connection for the same or less money ?
I think Prices are likely to drop again in the next few months, but will Screamer drop theirs (or will they close shop) ?

 

[Weasley]

i would say get 2 of these http://www.scoopdistribution.co.za/product_info.php?cPath=49_78&products_id=779
that should do the job

 

[gerasmus]

Thank you ! And this should be all I need for transmitter/receiver and get me all up and running ?

 

[jmichalo]

I don't think so

Thank you ! And this should be all I need for transmitter/receiver and get me all up and running ?

The idea is almost fantastic, it should work without a sweat, did you take under consideration that you need ICASA license? Cost R 20,000.00. Without that license you cannot cross any public road. Without it if you are going to be caught you will lose all your equipment and you might get a fine up to
R 500, 000.00. Did you know about it? If not think again. I have very similar situation and can do nothing but pay.
Let say you will get the license, you will be persistent and pay the fee, what then will you buy the equipment and install it, I don't think so, using that cheap equipment for long range hauling of date you will need high power, so we are sitting again with dilemma should I or shouldn’t I break the law. ICASA regulation says that you are allowed to produce maximum 2W of radiated energy of the total produced power (Radio + Antenna) , friend of mine is using similar equipment like the one advised to you and over similar distance first his throughput from one radio to another is not a quarter of the promised on the pamphlet, second the equipment is getting stuck in some unexplained mode and you have to reboot the system to get it going again, this happened quite often. So what is your other alternative? Buy good equipment, than we are talking of +- R 40.000 per radio, unfortunately I cannot afford that kind of pricing so I just shut-up and am paying to the provider. But good luck maybe you are going to be more lucky than I am.
Regards

 

[Ryder_JHB]

^

 

[gerasmus]

The idea is almost fantastic, it should work without a sweat, did you take under consideration that you need ICASA license? Cost R 20,000.00. Without that license you cannot cross any public road. Without it if you are going to be caught you will lose all your equipment and you might get a fine up to
R 500, 000.00. Did you know about it? If not think again. I have very similar situation and can do nothing but pay.
Let say you will get the license, you will be persistent and pay the fee, what then will you buy the equipment and install it, I don't think so, using that cheap equipment for long range hauling of date you will need high power, so we are sitting again with dilemma should I or shouldn’t I break the law. ICASA regulation says that you are allowed to produce maximum 2W of radiated energy of the total produced power (Radio + Antenna) , friend of mine is using similar equipment like the one advised to you and over similar distance first his throughput from one radio to another is not a quarter of the promised on the pamphlet, second the equipment is getting stuck in some unexplained mode and you have to reboot the system to get it going again, this happened quite often. So what is your other alternative? Buy good equipment, than we are talking of +- R 40.000 per radio, unfortunately I cannot afford that kind of pricing so I just shut-up and am paying to the provider. But good luck maybe you are going to be more lucky than I am.
Regards

Basically, it sounds like I am stuffed. I will just have to shut my yap and pay. ICASA crap. Bureaucracy. Thanks foor your very detailed reply

 

[TheRoDent]

Not really. You could qualify under the ICASA definition of a "private electronic communications network" license, which means, as long as the business is using the link for purely private purposes within the ambits of the law, you do not need to get an ECNS license.

This means generally, that you may not SELL access on your PECN to other people. Other than that, if you stay within transmission limits for the spectrum, you may just need to send a fax off to ICASA.

 

[Roger.Wilco]

The idea is almost fantastic, it should work without a sweat, did you take under consideration that you need ICASA license? Cost R 20,000.00. Without that license you cannot cross any public road. Without it if you are going to be caught you will lose all your equipment and you might get a fine up to
R 500, 000.00. Did you know about it? If not think again. I have very similar situation and can do nothing but pay.

Then how does the local WUG's do it? I'm sure they don't pay ICASA?

Let say you will get the license, you will be persistent and pay the fee, what then will you buy the equipment and install it, I don't think so, using that cheap equipment for long range hauling of date you will need high power, so we are sitting again with dilemma should I or shouldn’t I break the law. ICASA regulation says that you are allowed to produce maximum 2W of radiated energy of the total produced power (Radio + Antenna) , friend of mine is using similar equipment like the one advised to you and over similar distance first his throughput from one radio to another is not a quarter of the promised on the pamphlet, second the equipment is getting stuck in some unexplained mode and you have to reboot the system to get it going again, this happened quite often. So what is your other alternative? Buy good equipment, than we are talking of +- R 40.000 per radio, unfortunately I cannot afford that kind of pricing so I just shut-up and am paying to the provider. But good luck maybe you are going to be more lucky than I am.
Regards

The equipment he's planning on using is perfect for the distance he needs. If your friend with similar equipment is having problems with his, then he's either doing something wrong, or it's faulty equipment.

 

[Sencovaal]

okay man contact me opening a isp in vaalwater soon maybe i can help.

see ya

 

[gerasmus]

Will you be competing with the incumbents here in Ellisras as well ? Gaan jy die mense hier in Ellisras 'n ding of twee kom leer ?
I live just outside the reacjh of ADSL, as are most of S-African users.

 

[Sencovaal]

i will try my best with competitive pricing and supurb service we will see.
i will be in ellisras by july this year.

see ya soon

 

[captainwifi]

Not really. You could qualify under the ICASA definition of a "private electronic communications network" license, which means, as long as the business is using the link for purely private purposes within the ambits of the law, you do not need to get an ECNS license. This means generally, that you may not SELL access on your PECN to other people. Other than that, if you stay within transmission limits for the spectrum, you may just need to send a fax off to ICASA.

Rodent you have an ECNS license via http://www.neology.co.za and wouldn't want others to emulate you if they don't have such a license. As far as what we can and can't do only the courts can decide this not Icasa, which is why you have an ECNS license, the court ruled in Altech's favour against Icasa. Can a non license holder setup his own telecoms firm? What is in the ambit of the law? That is for the courts to decide, but the will never get to decide since there won't ever be a prosecution as explained here: http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/LegalPerspective. What you actually mean is what a court could decide should there ever be a prosecution, which of course will never happen because the court nor Icasa or Vodacom can prosecute anybody, only the NPA can do such and they don't take bribes.

Under the ECA the distinction between open streets and closed estates no longer exist. Icasa has complete control over every square centimeter of any network using any topology using any equipment. Both open streets and closed estates can run fiber as long as the network is not for profit if not in association with an ECNS, VANS or whatever license holder.

But where the legal profession is deceiving the public is this is not what the law says! It is merely interpretations of the ECA by Icasa and lawyers because only the court can decide what the law says. In terms of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998, the power to institute and conduct criminal proceedings on behalf of the State (and to discontinue criminal proceedings) vests in the national prosecuting authority.

And since the NPA will in eternity not get involved in who has what license to cut what road where and when , this entire debate is interesting academic exercise since Vodacom, Icasa or the SAPS telling people to relicense their firearms can't prosecute anybody.

In the civil case between Icasa and Altron that Altron won giving VANS license holders the right to cut roads, the court didn't say people without a VANS license isn't allowed to cut roads. No civil ruling was made on this issue, nor could there be because such an issue would be criminal and only the NPA could make a decision on whether to prosecute or not.

http://www.smartvillage.co.za/index...ask=sobi2Details&catid=0&sobi2Id=9&Itemid=183 "...While inside gated estates developers and occupants have the freedom to do whatever they like, in traditional suburbs residents would need to find a company with the legal right to provide telecoms infrastructure to offer such services...."

This is factually wrong. Only the courts can decide whether it is legal or not for open streets to lay fiber. This is not for the SAPS, Naspers, Vodacom, NPA or ANC or the minister of communications to decide. All the NPA can do is prosecute a road cutter , something they wouldn't dream of doing and thus the legality or not from a criminal perspective will forever remain of academic interest.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Jees... you started to speak a bit of sense then lost it...

NO license holder has the right to cut roads... those rights vest with the municipality that controls that road. Courts are NOT needed... if you cut a road and don't have permission from the municipality, be prepared to get into a lot of trouble...

 

[Sencovaal]

Jees... you started to speak a bit of sense then lost it...

NO license holder has the right to cut roads... those rights vest with the municipality that controls that road. Courts are NOT needed... if you cut a road and don't have permission from the municipality, be prepared to get into a lot of trouble...

Yes this is true but when registered as a wisp at www.wapa.org.za this all becomes possible.

see ya

 

[portcullis]

Yes this is true but when registered as a wisp at www.wapa.co.za this all becomes possible.

see ya

Since when can WAPA override a council or a municipality?

 

[Sencovaal]

Since when can WAPA override a council or a municipality?

i dont know but i know i pay a sh&t load of license fees.... for the last 9 years

+ license not hold by wapa but if you van register with wapa you confirm that you have a license as a wisp.

 

[portcullis]

This is how you cut a road - I know I've donteit many times.

1. Go to the council and get the map to see where all the existing ducts are.
2. Apply to run your duct.
3. Go through all the steps required. This may mean getting a town planning consultant involved. It may also mean getting an environmental impact assessment done.
4. Once you have the permit in hand, you may then cut the road and run your duct in the time frame stipulated on the permit.

 

[ToxicBunny]

i dont know but i know i pay a sh&t load of license fees.... for the last 9 years

+ license not hold by wapa but if you van register with wapa you confirm that you have a license as a wisp.

You license is for having telecommunications equipment or whatever... gives you NO rights to dig up roads and lay ducts....

 

[captainwifi]

Yes this is true but when registered as a wisp at www.wapa.org.za this all becomes possible.
see ya

Note that South-Africa has official and unofficial ways of doing things. In Switzerland for example you would need official permission. I have personally received "unofficial" permission to cut roads, came and told everybody about it here and now those same people in PTA council don't want to talk to me. Unofficially if you give the road back in a better condition council will do nothing, council wants there to be bandwidth for camera networks so that their power lines don't get stolen. It is the Vansies making a big issue out of this , not council .

 

[captainwifi]

i dont know but i know i pay a sh&t load of license fees.... for the last 9 years
+ license not hold by wapa but if you van register with wapa you confirm that you have a license as a wisp.

In terms of the court ruling an ECNS license gives council the right to give you leaways etc. from a CIVIL perspective. From a criminal perspective if I cut 10km of roads with or without a license and repair the roads and the http://www.npa.gov.za doesn't prosecute me then what is the problem? If you're not prosecuted you can't be fined or go to jail. The only issue the NPA would look at is that you mustn't do permanent physical damage to roads: The reasonable man principle applies.