What is your view on Brexit?

rpm

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Can you share your views on Brexit? Do you think it will be good or bad for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union?
 

gamer16

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Nov 3, 2013
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Some very important thing over there in Europe that I haven't bothered to try and understand yet.

If it was summed up in laymen terms in 150 words or less I'd give it a read.
 

Ancalagon

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Brexit is going to be good for the UK, and it might spell the beginning of the end of the EU.

So, the first thing to note is political authority, which is a huge issue. The UK is currently subject to many EU laws in which the average UK voter has very little say in. They only have indirect authority, in that the UK votes for MEPs who then have an influence on law. But the indirect nature means that many people in the UK do not feel represented by the EU politicians. I mean, for instance, are the judges of the various EU courts democratically elected?

Compare and contrast the aims of the USA with the aims of the EU. The EU aims for ever increasing integration, the USA does not. The USA constitution includes several negative provisions banning government on making laws on certain subjects - the EU does not. The point is, while you can compare the EU to the USA, they are both different in important ways. California can strike its own trade deals if it wants to, despite using the dollar as currency, for instance. France cannot.

More broadly it is a very interesting show of the popular will vs what the elites want. The people do not want the EU. They do not want to have authority wielded over them by a government they had very little say in electing.

Then you have people saying things like, "Smart and educated people voted for Brexit", or, "They didn't know what they were voting for". Things like that are incredibly arrogant and condescending, and what is interesting about it is that those making the arguments are not aware of their own biases when doing so. They do not see a problem with painting Brexit voters as stupid or misinformed. They don't seem aware that this is prejudice exactly like racism or sexism.

To some extent it is a showdown of neoliberal policies vs more conservative policies, and in this case, conservative policies won. The EU wants free trade, increasing integration, mass immigration and eventually One World Culture. Okay, they wouldn't word it as One World Culture, but that is what they want.

There are good reasons why people are sceptical of immigration. People like me with high paid jobs are largely unaffected. But when you look at the number of migrants that have come in, they drive down wages in real terms for low wage earners and put more pressure on existing social services.

The Left says anyone afraid of immigration is racist, but are they? That's another generalisation made by the left by the way. Is it a bad thing to say I like England? Is it a bad thing to say that I don't want England to change so fast? Does that make me racist or xenophobic? No, it doesn't, it just means I like things the way they are.

Before you accuse me of irony, I'm not opposed to all immigration - I am however opposed to unrestricted immigration. There should be movement controls and there should be restrictions and those already living in the country should have a say about immigration. England should help the English first before it helps anyone else - else what is the point of England?
 

NarrowBandFtw

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Short term pain for long term gain, no country in the world should ever be silly enough to forfeit its sovereignty.

Without sovereignty it ceases to exist.
 

Johnatan56

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Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
26,065
Brexit is going to be good for the UK, and it might spell the beginning of the end of the EU.

So, the first thing to note is political authority, which is a huge issue. The UK is currently subject to many EU laws in which the average UK voter has very little say in. They only have indirect authority, in that the UK votes for MEPs who then have an influence on law. But the indirect nature means that many people in the UK do not feel represented by the EU politicians. I mean, for instance, are the judges of the various EU courts democratically elected?

Compare and contrast the aims of the USA with the aims of the EU. The EU aims for ever increasing integration, the USA does not. The USA constitution includes several negative provisions banning government on making laws on certain subjects - the EU does not. The point is, while you can compare the EU to the USA, they are both different in important ways. California can strike its own trade deals if it wants to, despite using the dollar as currency, for instance. France cannot.

More broadly it is a very interesting show of the popular will vs what the elites want. The people do not want the EU. They do not want to have authority wielded over them by a government they had very little say in electing.

Then you have people saying things like, "Smart and educated people voted for Brexit", or, "They didn't know what they were voting for". Things like that are incredibly arrogant and condescending, and what is interesting about it is that those making the arguments are not aware of their own biases when doing so. They do not see a problem with painting Brexit voters as stupid or misinformed. They don't seem aware that this is prejudice exactly like racism or sexism.

To some extent it is a showdown of neoliberal policies vs more conservative policies, and in this case, conservative policies won. The EU wants free trade, increasing integration, mass immigration and eventually One World Culture. Okay, they wouldn't word it as One World Culture, but that is what they want.

There are good reasons why people are sceptical of immigration. People like me with high paid jobs are largely unaffected. But when you look at the number of migrants that have come in, they drive down wages in real terms for low wage earners and put more pressure on existing social services.

The Left says anyone afraid of immigration is racist, but are they? That's another generalisation made by the left by the way. Is it a bad thing to say I like England? Is it a bad thing to say that I don't want England to change so fast? Does that make me racist or xenophobic? No, it doesn't, it just means I like things the way they are.

Before you accuse me of irony, I'm not opposed to all immigration - I am however opposed to unrestricted immigration. There should be movement controls and there should be restrictions and those already living in the country should have a say about immigration. England should help the English first before it helps anyone else - else what is the point of England?
Kind of agree, but at the same time disagree. The way it's been handled is just bad. There are a lot of advantages that come with being part of the EU, that includes things like access to a larger labor pool that increases economic activity.
Who said anything about EU stopping one from having to get a work visa btw? I haven't really seen any culture rules from the EU, would be interested if you could give examples. Don't see an issue with forcing trade deals through EU since free trade between member states, one bad member and there's no control to catch, can't have something like US where president steps in.
 

Swa

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Think they're going to regret it later. People were misled over the true cost. The older generation is in favour of leaving while the younger generation wants to remain. So guess which one will govern one day and overturn it.

It's also disingenuous to claim that the vote must be respected when they held a second referendum to get their way.
 

krycor

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Good.. and bad for the UK.

So proponents of Brexit make the huge mistake of judging its efficacy based on the current status quo.. which is changing as a result.

This is like saying your drink is gonna cool you down all day.. but 8hrs later the ice has melted and it’s got no chance.

Good.. middle and lower class will initially be better off as UK will attempt to chase these jobs for voter base. UK is no different to most countries..

Bad.. entire economy is based on it being an advanced, mature, developed economy. What this means is that skilled workers are favored.. this Brexit change is taking it out of the largest trade block.. the banking side alone is gonna lead to massive changes and I suspect they may try and go more heavily as a EU tax haven but it won’t stop the bleed in the property market. So the economy is slowly but surely gonna go down as in the end, it’s position in the world is not sustainable without a very favorable deal with EU.. and since it’s doing so to butter it’s bread on both sides (skilled and unskilled), it’s unlikely it will get the trade concessions it needs to improve its position without heavy losses.. EU would have be stupid to concede on things UK needs.. and then it’s members would leave as a result if these massive concessions are made.

So yah.. UK got issues. The immigrant nonsense is BS.. they will now be importing immigrants from Rsa, Ind, Pak, Aus and Nzl..and these people aren’t gonna be as interested lmfao.

To truly see how UK was before EU, simply look back at history.. UK only became great in the EU. Prior it was always suffering and in a lot of ways the lower middle class and worse have it better than in the past. Unions are gonna make a massive come back.
 

krycor

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Ps. Home ownership is pushed into two main countries/regions UK and US.. ironically both have suffered as a result of modern monetary strategies.

It’s quite fascinating to consider that in a progressive nation, they stuck on old idea that property still is equity.. albeit over the last 10yrs in particular this is proving to invalid.

Combo that with housing struggles.. here, there, in US etc and you can see that the populous is focusing on the wrong thing. Hell SA would be in a better position if we focused on housing rather than home ownership!
 

Spizz

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Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
25,529
Good.. and bad for the UK.

So proponents of Brexit make the huge mistake of judging its efficacy based on the current status quo.. which is changing as a result.

This is like saying your drink is gonna cool you down all day.. but 8hrs later the ice has melted and it’s got no chance.

Good.. middle and lower class will initially be better off as UK will attempt to chase these jobs for voter base. UK is no different to most countries..

Bad.. entire economy is based on it being an advanced, mature, developed economy. What this means is that skilled workers are favored.. this Brexit change is taking it out of the largest trade block.. the banking side alone is gonna lead to massive changes and I suspect they may try and go more heavily as a EU tax haven but it won’t stop the bleed in the property market. So the economy is slowly but surely gonna go down as in the end, it’s position in the world is not sustainable without a very favorable deal with EU.. and since it’s doing so to butter it’s bread on both sides (skilled and unskilled), it’s unlikely it will get the trade concessions it needs to improve its position without heavy losses.. EU would have be stupid to concede on things UK needs.. and then it’s members would leave as a result if these massive concessions are made.

So yah.. UK got issues. The immigrant nonsense is BS.. they will now be importing immigrants from Rsa, Ind, Pak, Aus and Nzl..and these people aren’t gonna be as interested lmfao.

To truly see how UK was before EU, simply look back at history.. UK only became great in the EU. Prior it was always suffering and in a lot of ways the lower middle class and worse have it better than in the past. Unions are gonna make a massive come back.
The weird thing is, the referendum was largely won on the promise of controlling immigration and subsequent access to social benefits, but the UK government has always had the power to control immigration but chose not to implement it.
 

Dairyfarmer

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Apr 17, 2016
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I think the UK voters were initially misled. It may or may not be a good think for the UK, but they were not in a good place to transition. There should have been a complete plan in place that the voters could have reviewed, debated,.... before asking their opinion. Unfortunately there is no going back now and there will be many years of pain before it starts settling.

It will be a bad thing for the EU in the short term. Don't know what the long term effects are going to be.

I am lucky in that I hold an Eire passport, so have the benefit of EU and UK Eire agreement as far as travel and work / settlement. Now the UK just needs to give Eire back the stolen counties.
 
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