What matric marks really mean

[feo]

And if one thinks - the South African matric is of such a low difficulty level. You don't belive me? Well, do a google search for the chinese maths paper if you really want to see what a matric exam is all about. But then again, the average chinese has a 10%+ bigger brain and is 20% more intelligent then the average african. Makes one think, doesn't it ?

Link to the chinese maths paper please?

I'd love to have a look at that.

 

[Intelligence++]

Yeah once you remember that a circle has 180 degrees, you can't go wrong with anything else. Easy - peazzy.

Hmmm . . . A circle has 180 deg . . . Let me guess . . . You are South African Don't confuse pi with a (full) circle Anyway my only explanation for such a discrepancy in exam level is the difference in brain size/intelligence. Guess who has the biggest 'gun' a sub saharan african or a chinese ?

 

[PeterCH]

Hmmm . . . A circle has 180 deg . . . Let me guess . . . You are South African Don't confuse pi with a (full) circle Anyway my only explanation for such a discrepancy in exam level is the difference in brain size/intelligence. Guess who has the biggest 'gun' a sub saharan african or a chinese ?

You sir should be the Minister of Education in this country.

 

[PeterCH]

Link to the chinese maths paper please?

I'd love to have a look at that.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/2006/11/17/why-asian-kids-are-good-at-math/

Just there. It's actually Korean but it's definitely something quite complicated and a problem I've often pondered while on the tram or the subway (while overseas since we don't get either).

 

[shadowfox]

The comments seem to indicate that that particular scan is from a book of humor rather than a maths textbook or paper.

This link shows the difference between questions asked in a British first year university exam and a Chinese University entrance-exam ... just note the difference in difficulty. I don't think many of our students here (if any) would even be able to get INTO a Chinese university.

http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-math-students-vs-english-math-students/

Of course some of the comments throw some doubts on the authenticity of this comparison as well ... but anyways ....

 

[PeterCH]

The comments seem to indicate that that particular scan is from a book of humor rather than a maths textbook or paper.

This link shows the difference between questions asked in a British first year university exam and a Chinese University entrance-exam ... just note the difference in difficulty. I don't think many of our students here (if any) would even be able to get INTO a Chinese university.

http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-math-students-vs-english-math-students/

Of course some of the comments throw some doubts on the authenticity of this comparison as well ... but anyways ....

Your comments are correct. I was merely being tongue in cheek in that one.
The same with the 180 deg in case someone missed.

I'm sorry I can't comment on the link you produced but someone else did and their commentary said that the two test papers are different - one is for students who need remedial maths and the other is meant to be challenging (Chinese one). Even subtle differences can mean something.

Look cram schools have been the norm in Japan since the 50s and Korea and Taiwn embarked on this too. This has led to a great deal of social harm, depression and even teen suicide due to the highly competitive natures of those systems. In Japan the universities were very difficult to get into but easy - apparently easier to be in than US ones once you got in. They are no re-evaluating their educational system as more people fail to keep up with
the highly competitive educational system which starts IN PRESCHOOL
and also as fewer children enter the system - SEA countries are facing a
population decline. China is even more artificial because of it's communist
system and class or social subordination and social slotting which is further
enforced by the police state. In contrast the West is more individualistic and
this has led to greater scientific achievement in the modern era when compared to China and other SE A countries - which are great at adapting Western ideas but don't seem to come up with them, themselves.

The question can also be asked, how good do your students need to be in maths? Some people are natural at maths, most are not. What has the milestone been in the West thus far. Have enrolees into MIT been better at maths before. Did this translate into more innovation and invention in the West vs what's happening now?

Perhaps you know if a review of this has been done. Does the invention, innovation and competitiveness on ideas in the West compare to a certain critical cut off
point in the mathematical abilities of its students and graduates or can one reduce the quality of teaching to a degree and not impact on these things?

Also remember that most and if not most a good many, of the top graduates in China and India make it their goal to emigrate to the West.

 

[Intelligence++]

They emigrate to the west because of better salaries after they graduate ! Ask me all about it And when did you check lately who makes the most important scientific discoveries? Don't look 'where' but rather by 'who'. The 'Westerners' in general and the Americans/Israelies in particular, go at great lengt to attract the 'top brains', regardles where they come from. If communism was good at one thing - then their schooling system is the one. And no I ain't arguing, I am telling you that. Been there,done that - I may be old now but not retarded. I found it bothersome that sub saharan africans figure nowhere and I can only attribute this to a fundamental difference rather then educational. In other words, the lower matric standard level in your country is there to stay for a very looooong time.

 

[noxibox]

forget the marks ,varsity will have a natural system where if you cant cut it you just wont make it at varsity no matter what you got at school.I remember back to stellenbosch and take a look at all the people starting degrees and looking around you who pulled through.I would say more than half drop out but somehow they cant cut it and

+1

There's no spoon feeding there!

This is nothing to be proud of. It is a travesty that the gap between final year school and first year university is so wide and that the teaching at universities is typically so sub-standard that a high percentage fail. We should be ashamed of this massive failure of the education system.

go to Unisa and get 70% at Unisa.Suppose that is why I would always prefer an Uct or Stellies graduate anyday to Unisa,unless they are an CA or CFa which is standardised.

A meaningless comparison. Unless you have controlled for all variables.

 

[PeterCH]

They emigrate to the west because of better salaries after they graduate ! Ask me all about it

Which is also why the West will excel even if they'll get Chinese mathematicians, South African doctors and so on, to do it.

And when did you check lately who makes the most important scientific discoveries? Don't look 'where' but rather by 'who'. The 'Westerners' in general and the Americans/Israelies in particular, go at great lengt to attract the 'top brains', regardles where they come from.

Which is what I said. The West attracts most brains. The pay is better and there are other professional perks such as freedom to do the research you want to do (as long as it's viable and someone will pay for it), security for the family, stability and so on.

If communism was good at one thing - then their schooling system is the one. And no I ain't arguing, I am telling you that. Been there,done that - I may be old now but not retarded.

Been there and done that too. I'm from the Eastern Bloc myself. The schooling system was not perfect though and bribery also often got you in above brains and at the same time there were also quotas. If you were from a peasant's family and male or female (depending on the field) you had
more points than if you were from an ex-bourgeois family (like mine was) . If the lecturer or tutor didn't like you, you got lousy marks and there was nowhere to appeal.
People were often very vindictive and on power trips. In the West the system is quite standardised and you can appeal, while you could also appeal in the
old Communist/Socialist uni systems in Eastern Europe you weren't always guaranteed of a fair hearing. And the corruption and bribery was rife.
The system wasn't perfect by a long shot. The Chinese educational system is however is somewhat different to the one in Eastern Europe and Soviet backed satellites (Cuba, Vietnam, etc).

I found it bothersome that sub saharan africans figure nowhere and I can only attribute this to a fundamental difference rather then educational. In other words, the lower matric standard level in your country is there to stay for a very looooong time

I've never really looked into it. Too many things on my plate, you know.
Perhaps the focus is on different things. The countries are poorly developed
and in such settings academic achievement is difficult if not impossible.

 

[bodhi]

The comments seem to indicate that that particular scan is from a book of humor rather than a maths textbook or paper.

This link shows the difference between questions asked in a British first year university exam and a Chinese University entrance-exam ... just note the difference in difficulty. I don't think many of our students here (if any) would even be able to get INTO a Chinese university.

http://toshuo.com/2007/chinese-math-students-vs-english-math-students/

Of course some of the comments throw some doubts on the authenticity of this comparison as well ... but anyways ....

lol - British is a 2D trig and the Chinese question is a 3D trig question.

The Chinese question looks similiar to maths (the good old HG maths !) that we did in Grade XII.

 

[syntax]

lol - British is a 2D trig and the Chinese question is a 3D trig question.

The Chinese question looks similiar to maths (the good old HG maths !) that we did in Grade XII.

good ol maths was done in standard 10, not grade 12

 

[bodhi]

good ol maths was done in standard 10, not grade 12

at least it was HG maths !

 

[syntax]

point taken

 

[bekdik]

I would like to see a bell curve of the results for each of the last 10 years.

A bell curve is the plot of the number of pupils (Y axis) vs % attained (X axis). A normal curve would have the peak at 50%.

 

[Intelligence++]

@Peter Which eastern block country you come from? (don't need to answer if is too personal) And, while I agree with you on most issues, I have to disagree when you say 'a poor country can't produce quality matriculants' - if that is what you ment. As far as I know, non of the 'Eastern Block' countries were rich, yet they produced brilliant graduates !

 

[shadowfox]

forget the marks ,varsity will have a natural system where if you cant cut it you just wont make it at varsity no matter what you got at school.I remember back to stellenbosch and take a look at all the people starting degrees and looking around you who pulled through.I would say more than half drop out but somehow they cant cut it and go to Unisa and get 70% at Unisa.Suppose that is why I would always prefer an Uct or Stellies graduate anyday to Unisa,unless they are an CA or CFa which is standardised.

The reason so many Stellies students bite the dust is because they spend the majority of their time partying.

UNISA is a whole different ballgame - you have to do everything by yourself - you can't lean on your lecturers and you don't have a peer group to measure yourself against. And 9 times out of 10 - the people studying through UNISA are working full time as well.

It takes a hell of a lot of grit and determination to walk in one end of UNISA and out the other holding a degree, and for a lot of employers its a sign of perseverance and good work ethic.

On average my UNISA marks are slightly lower than my marks for the last course I did - so I'll agree with noxibox that the comparison is slightly off.

 

[jambai]

The reason so many Stellies students bite the dust is because they spend the majority of their time partying.

UNISA is a whole different ballgame - you have to do everything by yourself - you can't lean on your lecturers and you don't have a peer group to measure yourself against. And 9 times out of 10 - the people studying through UNISA are working full time as well.

It takes a hell of a lot of grit and determination to walk in one end of UNISA and out the other holding a degree, and for a lot of employers its a sign of perseverance and good work ethic.

On average my UNISA marks are slightly lower than my marks for the last course I did - so I'll agree with noxibox that the comparison is slightly off.

It is a personal view but you cannot argue that stellenbosch and UCt and Wits have a better track record than Unisa.Who exactly has unisa produced compared to Uct or Stellies.My point still stands how can an student fail at Uct yet pass at Unisa?

 

[bontebok]

When talking about China, just remember that (population) size does matter. In SA we have 40 people with "one in a million" level intelligence. In China they have 1300. Their universities get the cream of the crop, from a much larger crop

 

[Intelligence++]

You assume, the average IQ of a chinese and a South African to be the same. I have answered this already a week ago and got banned. I was only pointing out the obvious, forgot though, this is a South African forum. Of course the average South African has a 10% bigger brain and a 20% higher IQ. Now let's see if this will get me banned for another 7 days too. I am sort of getting tired of switching accounts. Perhaps I should join a more open mined/tolerant forum.

 

[BTTB]

You assume, the average IQ of a chinese and a South African to be the same. I have answered this already a week ago and got banned. I was only pointing out the obvious, forgot though, this is a South African forum. Of course the average South African has a 10% bigger brain and a 20% higher IQ. Now let's see if this will get me banned for another 7 days too. I am sort of getting tired of switching accounts. Perhaps I should join a more open minded/tolerant forum.

Perhaps you should do just that.