What processor to buy ??

E

Excutioner

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ok guys i have a question to ask
I want 2 buy a new amd processor to go with my asus a8wsli32 mobo but i dont know if it is better to go for a 3800 single core (great because its cheap) or maybe a dual core might be better (I had my eye on a Opteron 165 but theres a stock shortage at the moment and the price has gone up due 2 the weakass Rand value) im gonna use this machine for a gaming rig so im gonna need it to be as fast as possible !
thanks for any help
 
I have an Dual Core 3800+ - you couln't go wrong... run multiple apps smoothly... I am very happy with it...
 
i would go for the opteron my man

dual core is all good and well but doesnt do much for gaming

all games are single core so it wouldnt help much

but in saying that new games might make use of dual core
so go for the dual core :)
 
I got Athlon X2 and it rocks!
Its amazing that how I have become used to multitasking since going dual core, whenever i use my other PC (athlon 2800+) I forget it isnt dualCore and as soon as i try do two major things like copy dvd for instance it slows down like hell!. With dualCore you can copy dvd, play media player, have IE open, have a game running and it'll still run smooth. Once you been on Dual Core you wont go bk believe me. I play most new games and not a single one has problems with DC...
 
killadoob said:
i would go for the opteron my man

dual core is all good and well but doesnt do much for gaming

all games are single core so it wouldnt help much

but in saying that new games might make use of dual core
so go for the dual core :)
Click to expand...

You cant run opetron on his board
 
My question is this: Is there really such a big difference between AMD and Pentium? Are they really that vastly different?
 
TheYak said:
My question is this: Is there really such a big difference between AMD and Pentium? Are they really that vastly different?
Click to expand...

Simple answer = Yes :D

Things will swap around when Conroe comes tho. Then Intel will be tops.
 
TheYak said:
My question is this: Is there really such a big difference between AMD and Pentium? Are they really that vastly different?
Click to expand...
Like Angellus said, YES. :p

ATM AMD's run cooler, useless power, and just simply perform better than a Pentiums for the same price ;)
 
hmm... Good thing I'm planning on bying an AMD then, hey? :)

Allthough my Intel is really not that bad at all - it runs really well.
 
TheYak said:
hmm... Good thing I'm planning on bying an AMD then, hey? :)

Allthough my Intel is really not that bad at all - it runs really well.
Click to expand...
Well I wouldnt buy anything right now. Like I said, at the moment AMD is the best, but on the 23rd of next month, things are set to change when Intel Core 2 Duo aka Conroe is released. In benchmarks that have been released so far, the slowest Conroe performs as fast as an AMD Athlon64 FX-60 IIRC.
 
nGAGEd55 said:
Like Angellus said, YES. :p

ATM AMD's run cooler, useless power, and just simply perform better than a Pentiums for the same price ;)
Click to expand...

BAh that has been debated, Games yes, Multitasking No! Until the next few weeks when Conroe lands! AMD will have no answers for a few years. Copy print and frame this post!. Dual core is cheaper or on par with AMD and Conroe will beat the cr@p out of anything AMD has to offer. Without overclocking!

Cost! local from suppliers. Work through it and see yourself. Look at the high end units in particular!

Intel Socket T LGA775 Processor: Celeron D (256K L2 cache, 90nm Prescott Core 533MHz FSB)
CP-BPC-260LGA R 575 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron Socket LGA775 2.66GHz Processor 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-280LGA R 635 335J Intel® Box Celeron Socket LGA775 2.8GHz Processor 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-300LGA R 850 345J Intel® Box Celeron Socket LGA775 3.066GHz Processor 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-320LGA R 915 351J Intel® Box Celeron Socket LGA775 3.2GHz Processor 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
Intel Socket T LGA775 Processor: Pentium 4 Prescott (1024K 800MHz FSB)
CP-BP4-260LGA R 900 BUNDLE Intel® Box Pentium-4 2.6GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-280LGA R 1,120 520 Intel® Box Pentium-4 2.8GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-300LGA R 1,195 530 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.0GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-320LGA R 1,485 540 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.2GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-340LGA R 1,880 550 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.4GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-360LGA R 2,795 560 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.6GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-380LGA R 4,260 570J Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.8GHz Processor (LGA775) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
Intel Socket T LGA775 Processor: Pentium 4 Extreme Edition (2MB 1066MHz FSB) - NEW
CP-BPD-280LGA R 1,795 820 Intel® Box PentiumD 2.8GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BPD-300LGA R 2,395 830 Intel® Box PentiumD 3.0GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BPD-320LGA R 3,895 840 Intel® Box PentiumD 3.0GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
Intel Socket T LGA775 Processor: Pentium 4 Prescott w/64Bit Technology (EM64T) (2MB 800MHz FSB) - NEW
CP-BP4-300F64 R 1,595 630 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.0GHz Processor (LGA775) 2MB L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-320F64 R 1,965 640 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.2GHz Processor (LGA775) 2MB L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-340F64 R 2,895 650 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.4GHz Processor (LGA775) 2MB L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-360F64 R 4,995 660 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.6GHz Processor (LGA775) 2MB L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
Intel Socket T LGA775 Processor: Pentium D Dual Core w/64Bit Technology (EM64T) (1MBx2, 800MHz FSB) - NEW
CP-BPD-280LGA R 1,795 820 Intel® Box PentiumD 2.8GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BPD-300LGA R 2,395 830 Intel® Box PentiumD 3.0GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
CP-BPD-320LGA R 3,895 840 Intel® Box PentiumD 3.0GHz Dual Core Processor (LGA775) 1MB x2 L2 OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology 3-year WTY - EM64T / Hyper-Threading
Intel Socket 478 Processor: Celeron Willamette(128K 400MHz FSB)
CP-BPC-200G R 395 Intel® Box Celeron 2.0GHz Processor (Socket 478) 128K OD 400MHz FSB with 3-year warranty
CP-C-240G R 400 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron 2.4GHz Tray Processor (Socket 478) 128K OD 400MHz FSB + CoolerMaster Soket 478 Fan or Thermaltake Socket 478 Fan
Intel Socket 478 Processor: Celeron D (256K L2 cache, 90nm Prescott Core 533MHz FSB)
CP-BPC-240PE R 450 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron D 2.4GHz Processor (Socket 478) 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-266PE R 500 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron D 2.66GHz Processor (Socket 478) 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-280PE R 600 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron D 2.8GHz Processor (Socket 478) 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
CP-BPC-300PE R 800 BUNDLE Intel® Box Celeron D 3.066GHz Processor (Socket 478) 256K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Prescott Core with 3-year warranty
Intel Socket 478 Processor: Pentium 4 Prescott (1024K 533MHz FSB)
CP-BP4-240PE R 795 Intel® Box Pentium-4 2.4GHz Processor (Socket 478) 1024K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Technology with 3-year warranty
CP-BP4-280PE R 1,095 Intel® Box Pentium-4 2.8GHz Processor (Socket 478) 1024K OD 533MHz FSB 90nm Technology with 3-year warranty
Intel Socket 478 Processor: Pentium 4 Prescott (1024K 800MHz FSB)
CP-BP4-300E R 1,250 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.0GHz Processor (Socket 478) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology with 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
CP-BP4-320E R 1,505 Intel® Box Pentium-4 3.2GHz Processor (Socket 478) 1024K OD 800MHz FSB 90nm Technology with 3-year WTY - Hyper-Threading
AMD Sempron Socket A Boxed Parts Important Notice:All AMD CPU msut send back with same Serial no on CPU & Fan together for warranty purpose!!!
CP-SDA2200BOX R 350 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2200+ 333FSB (1.667GHz) Socket A with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA2400BOX R 450 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2400+ 333FSB (1.667GHz) Socket A with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA2600BOX R 495 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2600+ 333FSB (1.833GHz) Socket A with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA2800BOX R 595 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2800+ 333FSB (2GHz) Socket A with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA3000BOX R 695 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 3000+ 333FSB (2.1GHz) Socket A with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
AMD Sempron Socket 754 Boxed Parts - NEW
CP-SDA26BX754 R 495 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2600+ 333FSB Socket 754 with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA28BX754 R 595 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 2800+ 333FSB Socket 754 with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA30BX754 R 695 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 3000+ 333FSB Socket 754 with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA31BX754 R 795 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 3100+ 333FSB Socket 754 with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
CP-SDA33BX754 R 995 BUNDLE AMD® Sempron 3300+ 333FSB Socket 754 with 256K Exclusive L2 cache, 130 Nanometer Technology
AMD ATHLON 64 Boxed Parts - Socket 754 Processor
CP-ADA28BX754 R 750 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 2800+ Socket 754 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA30BX754 R 1,050 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3000+ Socket 754 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA32BX754 R 1,350 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3200+ Socket 754 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA34BX754 R 1,550 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3400+ Socket 754 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA37BX754 R 1,850 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3700+ Socket 754 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
AMD ATHLON 64 Boxed Parts - Socket 939 Processor
CP-ADA30BX939 R 1,095 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3000+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA32BX939 R 1,295 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3200+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA35BX939 R 1,995 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3500+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA37BX939 R 2,395 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3700+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 1024K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA38BX939 R 2,995 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 3800+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
CP-ADA40BX939 R 3,995 BUNDLE AMD® Athlon™ 64 4000+ SOCKET 939 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - BOXED
AMD ATHLON 64 Boxed Parts - Socket 939 Processor
ADAFX55 R 5,995 NEW AMD® Athlon™ 64 FX55 SOCKET 939 2.6GHz 64-bit with HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 1024K cache - BOXED
AMD Opteron Boxed Parts- Socket 940 Processor
CP-A9142B R 1,595 AMD® Box Opteron ™ 64-bit - socket 940 - 1600Mhz 64-bit - L2 1MB cache - single processor
CP-A9144B R 1,895 AMD® Box Opteron ™ 64-bit - socket 940 - 1800Mhz 64-bit - L2 1MB cache - single processor
CP-A9242B R 2,595 AMD® Box Opteron ™ 64-bit - socket 940 - 1600Mhz 64-bit - L2 1MB cache - dual processor
 
From another

BOXED Intel Pentium 4 Prescott CPU
Intel Pentium-4 ® 2.4GHz CPU (Prescott), 478pin, 533Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 R 775
Intel Pentium-4 ® 2.8GHz CPU (Prescott), 478pin, 533Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 R 1,045
Intel Pentium-4 ® 3.0GHz CPU (Prescott), 478pin, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 R 1,145
Intel Pentium-4 ® 3.2GHz CPU (Prescott), 478pin, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 R 1,395

BOXED Intel Pentium 4 - Socket LGA 775
Intel Pentium 4 - 515 ® 2.66GHz CPU, 533Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 R 999
Intel Pentium 4 - 520 ® 2.8GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 (Hyper Threading) R 1,025
Intel Pentium 4 - 530 ® 3.0GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 (Hyper Threading) R 1,145
Intel Pentium 4 - 540 ® 3.2GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 (Hyper Threading) R 1,399
Intel Pentium 4 - 550 ® 3.4GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 (Hyper Threading) R 1,795
Intel Pentium 4 - 560 ® 3.6GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 1MB L2 (Hyper Threading) R 2,665

BOXED Intel Pentium 4 - Socket LGA 775(EM64T)
Intel Pentium 4 - 630 ® 3.0GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 2MB L2 (Hyper Threading)(EM64T) R 1,495
Intel Pentium 4 - 640 ® 3.2GHz CPU, 800Mhz FSB, 2MB L2 (Hyper Threading)(EM64T) R 1,795

AMD PROCESSORS Price

AMD Sempron Processor
AMD Sempron 2400+ (1.667GHz) 333Mhz FSB; 256K (Boxed) R 419
AMD Sempron 2400+ (1.667GHz) 333Mhz FSB; 256K (Tray) R 349
AMD Sempron 2600+ (1.833GHz) 333Mhz FSB; 256K (Boxed) R 529
AMD Sempron 2600+ (1.833GHz) 333Mhz FSB; 256K (Tray) R 479
AMD Sempron 2800+ (2.0GHz) 333Mhz FSB; 256K (Boxed) R 579

AMD Sempron Processor(754pin)
AMD Sempron™ 2600+ (1.60GHz) 128K L2 Cache, 754-Pin Processor, HyperTransport™ R 489
AMD Sempron™ 2800+ (1.60GHz) 256K L2 Cache, 754-Pin Processor, HyperTransport™ R 549
AMD Sempron™ 3000+ (1.80GHz) 128K L2 Cache, 754-Pin Processor, HyperTransport™ R 629

BOXED AMD Athlon 64-BIT Processors (754pin)
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3000+, 800Mhz FSB 754-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 955
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3000+, 800Mhz FSB 754-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ (Tray)+FAN R 949
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3200+, 800Mhz FSB 754-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 1,275
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3400+, 800Mhz FSB 754-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 1,439

BOXED AMD Athlon 64-BIT Processors (939-pin)
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3000+ (PIB) 1.8GHZ, 939-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 985
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3200+ (PIB) 2.0GHZ, 939-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 1,265
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3500+ (PIB) 2.2GHZ, 939-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 1,695
AMD Athlon64 ™ 3800+ (PIB) 2.4GHZ, 939-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 512 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 2,549
AMD Athlon64 ™ 4000+ (PIB) 2.4 GHZ, 939-Pin Processor (128 L1 + 1024 L2 Cache) HyperTransport™ R 3,639

BOXED AMD Opteron™ Processors
AMD Opteron™ 1400Mhz, 800Mhz (2 channel) FSB 940-pin Processor R 1,549
AMD Opteron™ 1800Mhz, 800Mhz (2 channel) FSB 940-pin Processor R 2,499
AMD Opteron™ 2200Mhz, 800Mhz (2 channel) Hyper Transport™ 940-pin Processor R 3,999
 
pupa said:
BAh that has been debated, Games yes, Multitasking No! Until the next few weeks when Conroe lands! AMD will have no answers for a few years. Copy print and frame this post!. Dual core is cheaper or on par with AMD and Conroe will beat the cr@p out of anything AMD has to offer. Without overclocking!

Cost! local from suppliers. Work through it and see yourself. Look at the high end units in particular!
Click to expand...
You're just about the only person here that thinks the current Intels are better than AMD's, so your opinion doesnt count :p

And I said Intel will be better when Conroe comes out, no need to tell me that.

And theres no need to post a whole frekken priceslist.
 
nGAGEd55 said:
You're just about the only person here that thinks the current Intels are better than AMD's, so your opinion doesnt count :p

And I said Intel will be better when Conroe comes out, no need to tell me that.

And theres no need to post a whole frekken priceslist.
Click to expand...

Where are the AMD Athlon 64 X2's?
 
nGAGEd55 said:
You're just about the only person here that thinks the current Intels are better than AMD's, so your opinion doesnt count :p

And I said Intel will be better when Conroe comes out, no need to tell me that.

And theres no need to post a whole frekken priceslist.
Click to expand...

And your bias towards AMD makes your vote and expertise useless too!! and it does not count either then :) :p . Many here also think different but to not want to quibble with kids! as not everyone is in time wasting gaming and overclocking like the young bratz! Some use their computers! not as toys as tools! Dell only found AMD good enough now, too late as now they saw the Conroe coming!

Well you wanted to see prices. Look at the high end CPU's and show me where the AMD are so cheap. The cheap scrap yes!

Also I may post as I want, you are not obliged to read neither can tell anyone what to do. That's the mods JoB!

AM2 will be here soon I presume, they are available locally now with Mobo! and the X2's I presume have to be special order as even the suppliers feel it is to shiite to market :D (was a joke) Do not know! will check!
 
Angellus said:
Where are the AMD Athlon 64 X2's?
Click to expand...

NB! Remember these are cost excluding!! Bundle means price if purchased with Mobo!

AMD® ATHLON64™ Socket 940 M2 Boxed Retail Processors

CP-ADA30BX940M2
R 750
BUNDLE
AMD® Athlon™ 64 3000+ Socket 940 M2 64-Bit With HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - Boxed With AMD Fan

CP-ADA32BX940M2
R 950
BUNDLE
AMD® Athlon™ 64 3200+ Socket 940 M2 64-Bit With HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - Boxed With AMD Fan

CP-ADA35BX940M2
R 1,400
BUNDLE
AMD® Athlon™ 64 3500+ Socket 940 M2 64-Bit With HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - Boxed With AMD Fan

CP-ADA35BX940M2
R 1,950
BUNDLE
AMD® Athlon™ 64 3800+ Socket 940 M2 64-Bit With HyperTransport Technology, L1 128K, L2 512K cache - Boxed With AMD Fan
 
Last edited:
pupa said:
And your bias towards AMD makes your vote and expertise useless too!! and it does not count either then :) :p . Many here also think different but to not want to quibble with kids! as not everyone is in time wasting gaming and overclocking like the young bratz! Some use their computers! not as toys as tools! Dell only found AMD good enough now, too late as now they saw the Conroe coming!

Well you wanted to see prices. Look at the high end CPU's and show me where the AMD are so cheap. The cheap scrap yes!

Also I may post as I want, you are not obliged to read neither can tell anyone what to do. That's the mods JoB!

AM2 will be here soon I presume, they are available locally now with Mobo! and the X2's I presume have to be special order as even the suppliers feel it is to shiite to market :D (was a joke) Do not know! will check!
Click to expand...
You take things waaay to seriously.

So if Intel was soo much better at things other than gaming, why are they losing such a great deal of their market share with their current desktop and server processors?

Anyways, the only reason 'Dell only found AMD good enough now' is because they started losing market share, and I doubt Intel would still give then special prices on their CPU's if Dell started selling mainstream AMD PC's.

I never said AMD was cheap, just that for the same price as an Intel, an AMD would perform better.

The reason I said you dont have to post a whole frekken pricelist is because I don't understand what point you're trying to make by doing so, it certainly doesn't prove that one processor is better than one of the same price.

Bout the X2's, you must have crappy suppliers if they dont have them on their pricelists, all the suppliers i'm registered with have them. :p
 
Last edited:
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