Which 9mm ammo do you recommend for EDC?

AntennaMan said:
For SD, use premium hollow points from reputable manufacturers. Do not mix FMJ's into your SD magazines (ie smartie boxing). Find a brand that works, and stick to it.

If anyone tells you to mix your ammo, you can safely ignore them. Walk away and count yourself lucky.
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Can I ask WHY you feel smartie boxing is a bad idea? It feels like “prevailing wisdom” flies around, but people don’t explain why they feel what they do. I get that hollow points are primarily designed to reduce collateral damage, so in an urban environment you should just pick a lane and stick with it. But if you want to pull a trigger and have something go bang, then as far as I can see having FMJ HP FMJ HP makes absolutely no real-world difference … until you have a loved one standing behind your perp (on 50% of your shots rofl).
 
Anyone have any experience with the Hornady Critical Duty and its use in a subcompact like a Glock 43x?
I went into a store, asked for Critical Defence, got given Critical Duty and only realized when I got home.
Seems these are optimized for use in full-sized pistols.
 
Foxhound5366 said:
Can I ask WHY you feel smartie boxing is a bad idea? It feels like “prevailing wisdom” flies around, but people don’t explain why they feel what they do. I get that hollow points are primarily designed to reduce collateral damage, so in an urban environment you should just pick a lane and stick with it. But if you want to pull a trigger and have something go bang, then as far as I can see having FMJ HP FMJ HP makes absolutely no real-world difference … until you have a loved one standing behind your perp (on 50% of your shots rofl).
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Because the scenario in your mind where you first have to shoot through this, and then that before engaging your target is just that, in your mind.

In just about every instance hollow points are what you want. They penetrate barriers just fine. Plus when you start shooting through barriers like doors, maybe you can rather avoid the situation.

Plan for what is probable, not some remote possibility.

But in the end it's your choice, just remember you are legally responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel.
 
So I walked into Safari Outdoor and asked "Hi, can you show me the 9mm hollowpoints you have?" and the guy puts down Hornady Critical Duty upfront, then Hornady Critical Defense behind that, then two other 'reasonable' options from another big brand (I forget which one lol).

WHY try and push the Hornady Critical Duty to a guy who's just 'ye olde average dude off the street'? Is it JUST because it's R100 more expensive? Is it because the guy selling the ammo doesn't know any better?

Personally I think trying to sell someone bullets which are described as "Designed to meet the needs of those who demand superior barrier penetration" a bit irresponsible within a self-defense setting.

Sure if I'd ASKED for superior barrier penetration, go for it. But for your average user, the cheaper Hornady Critical Defense will be a better choice every time. Won't it?

TLDR: Do at least a little research before buying anything for your gun.
 
Foxhound5366 said:
So I walked into Safari Outdoor and asked "Hi, can you show me the 9mm hollowpoints you have?" and the guy puts down Hornady Critical Duty upfront, then Hornady Critical Defense behind that, then two other 'reasonable' options from another big brand (I forget which one lol).

WHY try and push the Hornady Critical Duty to a guy who's just 'ye olde average dude off the street'? Is it JUST because it's R100 more expensive? Is it because the guy selling the ammo doesn't know any better?

Personally I think trying to sell someone bullets which are described as "Designed to meet the needs of those who demand superior barrier penetration" a bit irresponsible within a self-defense setting.

Sure if I'd ASKED for superior barrier penetration, go for it. But for your average user, the cheaper Hornady Critical Defense will be a better choice every time. Won't it?

TLDR: Do at least a little research before buying anything for your gun.
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So, you asked the guy to show what hollow points he has... He then proceeds to shows what hollow points he has (albeit in his preferred order)... And now you're complaining about it?

I mean, I could understand your point if he only put down the Critical Duty and nothing else.
 
SykomantiS said:
So, you asked the guy to show what hollow points he has... He then proceeds to shows what hollow points he has (albeit in his preferred order)... And now you're complaining about it?

I mean, I could understand your point if he only put down the Critical Duty and nothing else.
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Yes. Correct. Because he didn’t ask me what my intended use case was, or even which gun I have. Critical Duty is intended for full-size guns. I expect a salesperson in a gun store to realise that if they supply the wrong ammo, it could have life-threatening implications … like selling penetrating ammo in an urban self-defence setting. At the very least he had a duty to tell me “I don’t recommend you purchase this ammo”, don’t you think?
 
Foxhound5366 said:
So I walked into Safari Outdoor and asked "Hi, can you show me the 9mm hollowpoints you have?" and the guy puts down Hornady Critical Duty upfront, then Hornady Critical Defense behind that, then two other 'reasonable' options from another big brand (I forget which one lol).

WHY try and push the Hornady Critical Duty to a guy who's just 'ye olde average dude off the street'? Is it JUST because it's R100 more expensive? Is it because the guy selling the ammo doesn't know any better?

Personally I think trying to sell someone bullets which are described as "Designed to meet the needs of those who demand superior barrier penetration" a bit irresponsible within a self-defense setting.

Sure if I'd ASKED for superior barrier penetration, go for it. But for your average user, the cheaper Hornady Critical Defense will be a better choice every time. Won't it?

TLDR: Do at least a little research before buying anything for your gun.
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Bikes, cars, guns, cars....
Generally the sales guys are just sales guys and know very little...And care even less....
 
Foxhound5366 said:
Why? Incorrect medicine can kill, incorrect bullets can kill, I’d say they’re both pretty damn serious.
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I expect a pharmacist to know his stuff as he will (should have!) have a degree (hopefully)
Gun shops (amazingly), bike shops etc require no experience from their staff...
We just hope they know their products etc...
 
mojoman said:
I expect a pharmacist to know his stuff as he will (should have!) have a degree (hopefully)
Gun shops (amazingly), bike shops etc require no experience from their staff...
We just hope they know their products etc...
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Yup and there’s the problem. A little product training is non-negotiable. Nobody expects their salesperson to know the chemical makeup of their ammo, but understanding the broad categories and making appropriate recommendations feels reasonable.
 
Here is a whole lot of tests on 9mm ammo, you make your own mind up on which suits your needs https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

As far as normal pressure vs +P, vs +P+ goes, my understanding is that the Euro standard pressure for 9x19 is higher than the US, for some strange historical reason (I suspect, but don't know, the US gun manufacturers tried to prevent 9mm entering their market which used to be dominated by .45? And thus set the standard pressure low to make the round seem more feeble? Just a guess).

So 9mm's handguns designed in the EU use a standard design pressure which is closer to +P. So there is no problem in using that ammo in any modern Glock etc. (And the modern US guns would be the same now, because they have to compete)

But personally I think +P+ is just pushing the limits of your firearm unnecessarily. It's a bit like adding a turbo to a non-turbo car. Yes it might work, but you are going to be hammering all the parts more than you need to.

When I first collected my pistol, all they had was +P+, but after thinking about it I never used it, actually wouldn't mind getting rid of it. But that's just me.
 
Foxhound5366 said:
Personally I think trying to sell someone bullets which are described as "Designed to meet the needs of those who demand superior barrier penetration" a bit irresponsible within a self-defense setting.
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Barrier penetration is desired, especially for people living in Hijack country. The bullet will still stop if you shoot something soft and squishy. The main idea is it will penetrate the barrier and retain it's ability to expand when hitting something soft (like a hijacker).

Many other hollow points clog up when going through a barrier, effectively turning them into a FMJ that goes straight through the perp, hitting the old lady behind.
 
notayoba said:
Barrier penetration is desired, especially for people living in Hijack country. The bullet will still stop if you shoot something soft and squishy. The main idea is it will penetrate the barrier and retain it's ability to expand when hitting something soft (like a hijacker).

Many other hollow points clog up when going through a barrier, effectively turning them into a FMJ that goes straight through the perp, hitting the old lady behind.
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Yeah that’s why the Hornady Critical Defence has their special inner tips to keep the hollow points from clogging. Checking Hornady’s website, they’re pretty clear that their Duty rounds are for law enforcement and not normal defence purposes (it’s literally in the product name). But yeah, people can buy whatever they want … and sales people should try at least give them some pointers. If your wife is behind the hijacker you’re shooting at, maybe Duty rounds would penetrate further … and you’d then be wishing you had some Defence rounds instead. That’s the theory right?
 
If your wife is behind the hijacker you don't shoot, because even with a defence round instead of a duty round, you have no guarantee there won't be overpenetration.
 
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