Which neutral to use

Dairyfarmer

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I have no idea what my next step is going to be because pulling down a neutral will probably cost me quite a bit.
You can use another method that doesn't require a neutral. Would be fine for light switches but not plugs.
 

Geoff.D

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:X3: Yeah, sorry. I totally misread the OP - thought the OP had multiple neutral connectors on the Sonoff. I missed the part where the multiple neutrals and lives were in the current light switch fitting.

To me it sounds as though that light switch fitting was used as a junction box and not merely as a light switch fitting. Something like this. I hope this makes more sense.

View attachment 765654
That is it but really you could have come up with a better drawing.:cool:
 

The_Ogre

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It depends on how many conductors you have in each light box. And IF you are able to access the cabling in the ceiling and prepared to put in access boxes in the ceiling. And break a few rules maybe by doing yourself.


If the light switches are all single pole one gang light switches for each room meaning only two conductors (excluding the earth) both Red then you will have to pull in a neutral (conduit available) or chase a new cable into the wall.
If a few of them are single-pole multiple gang switches for multiple light fittings, THEN you van see if you can't "steal" a red conductor and use that for a neutral. Will have to mark the cable with black tape, and not show the CoC inspctor anything maybe. :ROFL:
It's a combination of single-, double and tripple gang switches. I have one switch which has 4 gangs, but one of the buttons won't be needed.

I checked only the switch in the garage and there's only two red wires in there, so I'm assuming my entire house's lights are wired with no neutral.
 

MEIOT

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It's a combination of single-, double and tripple gang switches. I have one switch which has 4 gangs, but one of the buttons won't be needed.

I checked only the switch in the garage and there's only two red wires in there, so I'm assuming my entire house's lights are wired with no neutral.
Nope - not necessarily. Strangely - my garage light doesn't have a Neutral - the rest of my house does though. Pop off one or two covers and have a peek
 

Geoff.D

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At least do you have cables in conduits? And are you converting to LED's everywhere?
Then you could downgrade to 1 mm sq from 1.5 and have enough space but it is actually a complete re-wire anyways. Forget trying to overhaul its is pull out everything and recable.
 

Kosmik

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It mostly depends on your light switch fittings' conduits. If they're accessible, then pulling in neutrals is easy. You can buy the cable yourself and supply it to the electrician. Problem is that in some houses (like mine), they've semented the top of the conduit closed. I'll need to grind/drill open the conduit to access it. So I'm rather looking at the Sonoff Mini, which will be a fair bit easier to install.
Arb question, as the fitting would already have a neutral at its end and live wire from it to the switch, why not just piggy back off that neutral point to the wall switch? Should be a easy enough push one wire down conduit?
 

Steamy Tom

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It's a combination of single-, double and tripple gang switches. I have one switch which has 4 gangs, but one of the buttons won't be needed.

I checked only the switch in the garage and there's only two red wires in there, so I'm assuming my entire house's lights are wired with no neutral.
everything that was wired at the same time would likely be wired similarly yeah.
 

Geoff.D

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Arb question, as the fitting would already have a neutral at its end and live wire from it to the switch, why not just piggy back off that neutral point to the wall switch? Should be a easy enough push one wire down conduit?
Easy said. Send the familie away for a weekend or buy them earplugs and learn lots of new swear words.
 

Kosmik

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Easy said. Send the familie away for a weekend or buy them earplugs and learn lots of new swear words.
Lucky for me, although there aren't any neutral wires, every box has a nice thick conduit running to it with single cable so LOTs of room for a fishtail wire.

TBH, although I like the idea of a wall switch, probably just be easier to wire a basic right by the fitting. From what I read, you can tell a basic to remember its last setting so even if the wall switch is turned on and off, it will keep what it was last set to. Then just close the wall switch box up or put one of those sonoff switch plates up ie: no wires just a physical wifi switch.

Still toying with the idea. Although I saw you can get sonof fan controllers too, got 4 (3 working) of those at home in infrared.
 

Geoff.D

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Lucky for me, although there aren't any neutral wires, every box has a nice thick conduit running to it with single cable so LOTs of room for a fishtail wire.

TBH, although I like the idea of a wall switch, probably just be easier to wire a basic right by the fitting. From what I read, you can tell a basic to remember its last setting so even if the wall switch is turned on and off, it will keep what it was last set to. Then just close the wall switch box up or put one of those sonoff switch plates up ie: no wires just a physical wifi switch.

Still toying with the idea. Although I saw you can get sonof fan controllers too, got 4 (3 working) of those at home in infrared.
Pull in a neutral from the light fitting. Swipe some overhead 2 core fibre drop wire :unsure: ;) cable from somewhere to use as a pretty good short distance fishtail
 

RetroRabbit

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So what you have is a daisy chain install. The two RED wires connected together are both Live, one incoming and one going to another light switch in another room. The single wire is to the light fitting. That switch should be marked "Live" and "Load".
The three neutrals are ALL to be connected to the smart switch replacement. The one to the light fitting is to complete the load circuit, and the other two must be connected as well to ensure continuity on the supply side.

In other words, just connect the combined twisted together neutrals to the neutral terminal on the smart switch.

There is one caveat. I am assuming there is only one light fitting in the room?
Thank you! Yes there is only one light fitting in the room.

All neutral roads lead to rome :D

In other words, all neutral terminates on the neutral bus on the DB.

OP - I have exactly the same config as yours in most of my switches at home - I've replaced all my switches with Sonoffs and just ran a proper gauge cable from the bundled neutrals with a block to the neutral on the sonoff and live to live.

Works flawlessly. No need to separate the neutrals.

In fact - DONT separate the neutrals. Somewhere down the chain another neutral might be piggybacking off a neutral you might separate. Just causes more complications.
How did you connect your neutral that you ran off? Did you solder it to the crimping block?
 

smc

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Well, there's a practical answer to this, and a "correct in theory" answer:

Practical answer: So far as I am aware, Sonoff switches connect input neutral to output neutral. See the diagram here: https://www.itead.cc/wiki/File:Sonoff-Schematic.pdf

In that case, it mostly doesn't matter.

"Correct in theory" answer: It would be better to connect the load (light or whatever) neutral to the output of the switch. The feed to the next switch in the daisy chain should be connected to the in terminal. Reason is that even if the input and output neutral are effectively connected together in the switch, it's possible for sensing, e.g., current sensing, to be done on the neutral line. Or RF suppression components such as a balun type transformer might be in line. In that case not having the load coming from the correct terminal might disable some functionality.
 

Geoff.D

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Well, there's a practical answer to this, and a "correct in theory" answer:

Practical answer: So far as I am aware, Sonoff switches connect input neutral to output neutral. See the diagram here: https://www.itead.cc/wiki/File:Sonoff-Schematic.pdf

In that case, it mostly doesn't matter.

"Correct in theory" answer: It would be better to connect the load (light or whatever) neutral to the output of the switch. The feed to the next switch in the daisy chain should be connected to the in terminal. Reason is that even if the input and output neutral are effectively connected together in the switch, it's possible for sensing, e.g., current sensing, to be done on the neutral line. Or RF suppression components such as a balun type transformer might be in line. In that case not having the load coming from the correct terminal might disable some functionality.
Correct. That would mean splitting the neutrals from each other and identifying the one going to the light fitting and connecting that to the "Load" neutral, with the other two connected to the "Live" neutral.

No don't solder another wire if you can help it, rather connect the wires direct to the smart switch terminals.
The same, the Red Load cable from the light fitting to the Live Load terminal, and the other two to the Live power terminal.

It does not matter if there is a single neutral terminal available only.
 

Steamy Tom

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Lucky for me, although there aren't any neutral wires, every box has a nice thick conduit running to it with single cable so LOTs of room for a fishtail wire.

TBH, although I like the idea of a wall switch, probably just be easier to wire a basic right by the fitting. From what I read, you can tell a basic to remember its last setting so even if the wall switch is turned on and off, it will keep what it was last set to. Then just close the wall switch box up or put one of those sonoff switch plates up ie: no wires just a physical wifi switch.

Still toying with the idea. Although I saw you can get sonof fan controllers too, got 4 (3 working) of those at home in infrared.
the issue with this for me is how do you turn the light on without your app handy?
 

MEIOT

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the issue with this for me is how do you turn the light on without your app handy?
You can wire the normal flip/toggle switch in to the sonoff using GPIO. That's how all mines are wired. Manual switching works as well as app switching
 

Steamy Tom

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You can wire the normal flip/toggle switch in to the sonoff using GPIO. That's how all mines are wired. Manual switching works as well as app switching
hmm i might be a bit lost. the positive coming to the light comes from the wall switch when it is ON only right? or did you have direct power to your light also?
 

MEIOT

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hmm i might be a bit lost. the positive coming to the light comes from the wall switch when it is ON only right? or did you have direct power to your light also?
Live, Neutral and Load go directly to the Sonoff.

There are also GPIO pins on the Sonoffs to connect sensors or even a flip/toggle switch.

Theres a visual in this link

 

Steamy Tom

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Live, Neutral and Load go directly to the Sonoff.

There are also GPIO pins on the Sonoffs to connect sensors or even a flip/toggle switch.

Theres a visual in this link

ok but they i am guessing your light switches origional wiring isnt the one providing power to the sonoff for live.
 

abudabi

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Live, Neutral and Load go directly to the Sonoff.

There are also GPIO pins on the Sonoffs to connect sensors or even a flip/toggle switch.

Theres a visual in this link

Hmm... Didn't know this was possible with basics. Thought only minis could do it.
 
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