Which neutral to use

Steamy Tom said:
ok but they i am guessing your light switches origional wiring isnt the one providing power to the sonoff for live.
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yes - it is - the original wiring is going in to the input live and neutral on the sonoff.

The physical switch just connects on the GPIO pins. No power goes through the physical switch itself. It just tells the sonoff to turn on or off when the switch is triggered manually.

Life with Sonoffs become much easier with Tasmota CFW as well - in the Tasmota interface you can specify exactly how you want the physical switch to behave and other cool settings like retain last state on power off etc
 
RetroRabbit said:
The issue is the 3 neutrals are crimped together in a large ferrel, not just put into a chocolate block. Would I need to remove that crimp and add the cable then recrimp?
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Easiest thing to do is unbundle those 3 Neutrals - insert all 3 copper ends in to one end of a block - screw them in - get another matching gauge length of black cable - screw that copper end in to the other end of the block - it's just a join using the block in essence

Actually - the load side also needs a Neutral - so 2 lengths coming out the other end of the block. One for Input and one for Output (Load)

Please make sure your mains are turned off first :laugh:
 
MEIOT said:
yes - it is - the original wiring is going in to the input live and neutral on the sonoff.

The physical switch just connects on the GPIO pins. No power goes through the physical switch itself. It just tells the sonoff to turn on or off when the switch is triggered manually.

Life with Sonoffs become much easier with Tasmota CFW as well - in the Tasmota interface you can specify exactly how you want the physical switch to behave and other cool settings like retain last state on power off etc
Click to expand...

ok but then you had power direct to your light fitting also
 
Steamy Tom said:
ok but then you had power direct to your light fitting also
Click to expand...

No - power is switched by the Sonoff. On the Sonoff Input side is where the power goes in.

On the Sonoff Output side is where the load (light fitting goes in).

So there's no direct power pe se to the actual light fitting. If for some reason the Sonoff blows a fuse and loses power to it's circuity it becomes impossible to turn the switch on either manually using the flip/toggle switch or through the app even though power to the Input side is still fine.

All the manual wall switch that's plugged in to the GPIO pins does is send a command to the Sonoff to turn on or off.
 
MEIOT said:
Easiest thing to do is unbundle those 3 Neutrals - insert all 3 copper ends in to one end of a block - screw them in - get another matching gauge length of black cable - screw that copper end in to the other end of the block - it's just a join using the block in essence

Actually - the load side also needs a Neutral - so 2 lengths coming out the other end of the block. One for Input and one for Output (Load)

Please make sure your mains are turned off first :laugh:
Click to expand...
How the hell do I get them unbundled from the ferrel they've been crimped in? I would like to avoid cutting it off but if it's the only way I'll do so.
 
RetroRabbit said:
The issue is the 3 neutrals are crimped together in a large ferrel, not just put into a chocolate block. Would I need to remove that crimp and add the cable then recrimp?
Click to expand...

If the cables are long enough to crimp, remove and use a new ferrule, otherwise replace with that much-hated thing called a chocolate block.
 
RetroRabbit said:
How the hell do I get them unbundled from the ferrel they've been crimped in? I would like to avoid cutting it off but if it's the only way I'll do so.
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Going on that pic you posted, there seems ample slack on those neutrals to cut and strip the ends. Else, as @Geoff.D mentioned above
 
MEIOT said:
No - power is switched by the Sonoff. On the Sonoff Input side is where the power goes in.

On the Sonoff Output side is where the load (light fitting goes in).

So there's no direct power pe se to the actual light fitting. If for some reason the Sonoff blows a fuse and loses power to it's circuity it becomes impossible to turn the switch on either manually using the flip/toggle switch or through the app even though power to the Input side is still fine.

All the manual wall switch that's plugged in to the GPIO pins does is send a command to the Sonoff to turn on or off.
Click to expand...

we are missing each other here. currently a normal light has a neutral to it and a switched live right? so now i ask, how did you get power to your light fitting without considering the switch, did you have power there already?
 
Steamy Tom said:
we are missing each other here. currently a normal light has a neutral to it and a switched live right? so now i ask, how did you get power to your light fitting without considering the switch, did you have power there already?
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Oh - Yes.

Have a look at the 2 pics @ RetroRabbit posted. You'll notice on the actual wall switch there are 2 red connections to the switch. One is to the load (light switch) the other is the actual Live from the DB. The neutrals in the cavity are just bundled together not connected to the switch.

My initial configuration matched the OP's exactly where the neutrals weren't wired in to the switch but also bundled in the cavities.
 
MEIOT said:
Oh - Yes.

Have a look at the 2 pics @ RetroRabbit posted. You'll notice on the actual wall switch there are 2 red connections to the switch. One is to the load (light switch) the other is the actual Live from the DB. The neutrals in the cavity are just bundled together not connected to the switch.

My initial configuration matched the OP's exactly where the neutrals weren't wired in to the switch but also bundled in the cavities.
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ok i think we are on the same page, you didn't wire it in the fitting, you wired it in the wall switch.
 
Geoff.D said:
That is it but really you could have come up with a better drawing.:cool:
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:laugh: Very true. Time was against me, though.

Kosmik said:
Arb question, as the fitting would already have a neutral at its end and live wire from it to the switch, why not just piggy back off that neutral point to the wall switch? Should be a easy enough push one wire down conduit?
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I wouldn't do that. That neutral already needs to carry all the current from the plug's live. Now you add some current from a light's live as well. This could possibly overload the neutral, which was only sized to carry the plug's current. And I doubt that your circuit breakers will trip, as they're both on the plug and light's lives respectively. Its one of those cases where it should be fine, and your house shouldn't burn down, but you do have a neutral that you don't know if it is really adequately sized for the load it possibly carry.
 
Tacet said:
:laugh: Very true. Time was against me, though.



I wouldn't do that. That neutral already needs to carry all the current from the plug's live. Now you add some current from a light's live as well. This could possibly overload the neutral, which was only sized to carry the plug's current. And I doubt that your circuit breakers will trip, as they're both on the plug and light's lives respectively. Its one of those cases where it should be fine, and your house shouldn't burn down, but you do have a neutral that you don't know if it is really adequately sized for the load it possibly carry.
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That neutral will only assist the sonnoffs internal workings, seriously doubt it would be any meaningful additional load.

Oh and I wasnt talking about a plug socket, I was saying bring a wire back from the light fitting the switch is powering.
 
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Kosmik said:
That neutral will only assist the sonnoffs internal workings, seriously doubt it would be any meaningful additional load.
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It shouldn't cause issues, and I'll admit to having done the same. But you now have a neutral that is part of two circuits. 10142 wants your neutral to be the same current carrying capacity as the phase conductor, which won't be the case if you effectively have two phase conductors connected to it. It will work, but its not practice I'd advocate at all.
 
Tacet said:
It shouldn't cause issues, and I'll admit to having done the same. But you now have a neutral that is part of two circuits. 10142 wants your neutral to be the same current carrying capacity as the phase conductor, which won't be the case if you effectively have two phase conductors connected to it. It will work, but its not practice I'd advocate at all.
Click to expand...

Neutral is common though and its still a single circuit to one breaker ie: live -> switch\sonoff -> light. All its doing is extending the neutral to the sonoff making it a common rail for both sonoff and light..
 
Can anybody explain this to me? Is this black a neutral?

Apologies about the quality. Wife took the pic while I was busy with the Sonoff switchIMG_20200321_100324.jpg
 
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