Which puffer jacket?

saor said:
Nobody gives two shifts what other people wear. Your point applies to fake clothes as well: Nobody is going to take notice. If you honestly walk around with the mental energy to notice fake clothes and judge people to look silly you probably need to attend to the log in your own eye first.
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Agreed, it really makes no difference, until you need it to perform properly.
 
I.am.Sam said:
not all kway jackets have the gigantic logos

same goes for nikes adidas and all other brands

its hard to spot a fake
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Maybe so, but all the flea market fakes I have seen in passing are easy to spot as fakes - and then when you see people wearing them, it's also obvious it's a fake. But I hear you; since I haven't paid much attention to fakes, there are probably better ones I haven't seen.
I.am.Sam said:
your moral ground is a different story cos if you believe people making your branded clothing work in the best of environments ..... thats another story for another day
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That's a whole separate issue, and a convenient excuse people like to use to justify buying fakes. Yes, some brands have and probably still do make use of unfair labour - but that's got nothing to do with the intellectual property theft. It's two separate issues, and also - if you dont think the real branded stuff is made under ideal working conditions, how do you think the fakes are made???
 
I.am.Sam said:
your moral ground is a different story cos if you believe people making your branded clothing work in the best of environments ..... thats another story for another day
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It's a bit more than that. It's about funding the Mafia, Camorra, Triads, and Yakuza among others...
 
I.am.Sam lols at that?

Counterfeit goods: a bargain or a costly mistake?

United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Web Site
www.unodc.org

abc7chicago.com

Fake designer products likely benefit cartels, other organized crime rings: CBP

The scheme can be likely traced to organized crime groups around the world, including drug cartels, the Russian mob and the Asian mob, authorities say.
abc7chicago.com abc7chicago.com



It's pretty well documented. Nothing new.
 
JerryMungo said:
I.am.Sam lols at that?

Counterfeit goods: a bargain or a costly mistake?

United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime Web Site
www.unodc.org

abc7chicago.com

Fake designer products likely benefit cartels, other organized crime rings: CBP

The scheme can be likely traced to organized crime groups around the world, including drug cartels, the Russian mob and the Asian mob, authorities say.
abc7chicago.com abc7chicago.com



It's pretty well documented. Nothing new.
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Well considering how high-end fashion houses like Christian Dior, Giorgio Armani, Valentino, Loro Piana, and Alviero Martini were recently bust using sweatshops and shady double dealing to conceal not made in Italy but actually majority made in China, even the highest end producers aren't much better than mafias themselves and they are just as greedy and unethical. It’s a horrible industry no matter who is running the show.

The quality of the "replicas" industry has gone mainstream, they used to be poor quality knock offs but these days the quality is often not far off legit stuff and it’s often become very difficult to tell between the counterfeit and legit stuff.

That being said I don't support counterfeiting but the quality issue is not the differentiator as it was in the past.
That being said for technical garments that people will be relying on to survive harsh weather you wouldn't want to be wearing counterfeit goods but thats not the question here, a fake NF jacket worn for day to day use will be totally adequate and fit for purpose as an original NF jacket would be, except that is for the fashion police/snobs.
 
airborne said:
Well considering how high-end fashion houses like Christian Dior, Giorgio Armani, Valentino, Loro Piana, and Alviero Martini were recently bust using sweatshops and shady double dealing to conceal not made in Italy but actually majority made in China, even the highest end producers aren't much better than mafias themselves and they are just as greedy and unethical. It’s a horrible industry no matter who is running the show.
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Let's not conflate things. Christian Dior, etc. are not generally criminal organizations. Greed is one thing, organized crime is another level. The Mafia, Camorra, Triads, and Yakuza on the other hand...
 
JerryMungo said:
Let's not conflate things. Christian Dior, etc. are not generally criminal organizations. Greed is one thing, organized crime is another level. The Mafia, Camorra, Triads, and Yakuza on the other hand...
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Well considering they were knowingly supporting organised crime which was profiting off of human suffering it’s not so far off, which was my point but I digress...
 
airborne said:
Well considering they were knowingly supporting organised crime which was profiting off of human suffering it’s not so far off, which was my point but I digress...
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Yes it is far off. I don’t think you understand the comparison.
 
JerryMungo said:
Yes it is far off. I don’t think you understand the comparison.
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Dior et al was knowingly profiting off of slave labour so they in essence became the mafia bosses albeit higher up the chain. Just because they weren't directly involved in the exploitation is besides the point, they made their henchmen do the dirty work like any clever mob boss. Obviously they aren't a direct equivalent but the point is the rot goes right to the very pinnacle of the industry.
 
airborne said:
Dior et al was knowingly profiting off of slave labour so they in essence became the mafia bosses albeit higher up the chain. Just because they weren't directly involved in the exploitation is besides the point, they made their henchmen do the dirty work like any clever mob boss. Obviously they aren't a direct equivalent but the point is the rot goes right to the very pinnacle of the industry.
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So let me lay out the differences:
Criminal syndicates use physical violence, threats, and fear to keep control. Bad supply chains use unfair economic contracts and the legal vulnerabilities of workers.

Code: 
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Feature           | Unfair Labor (Fashion Supply Chains)    | Forced Labor & Trafficking (Mafia)      |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Workforce Driver  | Economic desperation and illegal status | Physical kidnapping and violent threats |
| Mechanism         | Subcontractors cutting financial corners| Debt bondage, taking passports by force |
| Working Space     | Regulated factories violating city codes| Hidden camps, brothels, illegal ports   |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+

The fashion industry works within a legal market system that tries to make as much money as possible for owners and shareholders. Criminal groups operate completely outside the law to build illegal power.
When Christian Dior and Giorgio Armani were investigated by Milan prosecutors, they forced the brands to clean up their supply chains, vet their contractors, and fix their internal audits. The brands cooperated with the law, paid massive regulatory fines, and adjusted their corporate behavior to protect their public stock prices and brand images.

Basically unscrupulous Chinese-owned subcontractors in Italy hired undocumented immigrants. They cut safety guards off leather-gluing machines to speed up production, made people work 90-hour weeks, and had them sleep on-site to keep production moving 24/7.

The contractors exploited the workers' need for money and their fear of being deported but the workers were still free to walk away from the building, even if economic desperation kept them there.

In southern Italy's illegal rackets, syndicates like the Camorra or Nigerian mafia groups operate human trafficking networks. They trick vulnerable people into the country using fake job offers. Once the victims arrive, the mafia forcefully takes their passports. They trap them using massive, fake debts (often up to €65,000). They use physical violence, psychological torture, and death threats against the victims' families to force them into prostitution or illegal field labor. Leaving means facing immediate physical harm or death.

No, completely different scales.
 
JerryMungo said:
When Christian Dior and Giorgio Armani were investigated by Milan prosecutors, they forced the brands to clean up their supply chains, vet their contractors, and fix their internal audits. The brands cooperated with the law, paid massive regulatory fines, and adjusted their corporate behavior to protect their public stock prices and brand images.

Basically unscrupulous Chinese-owned subcontractors in Italy hired undocumented immigrants. They cut safety guards off leather-gluing machines to speed up production, made people work 90-hour weeks at €2-€3 vs the legal minimum wage of €10 per hour, and had them sleep on-site in horrific conditions to keep production moving 24/7.
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So Dior et al were basically doing Mafia lite, just as I said they were, thanks for expanding on my thesis.
 
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airborne said:
So Dior et al were basically doing Mafia lite, just as I said they were, thanks for expanding on my thesis.
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thumbs-up-90s.gif
 
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