White Domination

[xtermin8or]

Mandela fought against White Domination, and it was a fight he was prepared to die for, but the fight is not yet over as the latest report from the Commission for Employment Equity shows, White males still dominate the managerial levels of the private sector, with White women drawing teh largest advantage from AA policies.

White people are also favoured for recruitment and promotion, the full report is available on the Department of Labour's website

Labour

Aluta Continua

 

[Albereth]

This opens an interesting philosophical debate.

To persist with differentiation on the basis of skin colour means that there must be s difference between the races. So for years we have had people insisting that there is no difference between the races. Yet today we have those that are most vocal in insisting that there is no difference also being the most vocal in insisting that there is a difference and that black people should have a greater role in corporations.

So we had apartheid architects who insisted that there was a difference and discriminated on that basis. Now we have neo-apartheid architects who insist that there is no difference and yet continue to discriminate on the basis of something that isn't there.

I wonder how such confused people contine to exist? It does go someway to explaining some of the carnage on the roads - they are oblivious to pedestrian crossings.

 

[vxv]

This opens an interesting philosophical debate.

To persist with differentiation on the basis of skin colour means that there must be s difference between the races. So for years we have had people insisting that there is no difference between the races. Yet today we have those that are most vocal in insisting that there is no difference also being the most vocal in insisting that there is a difference and that black people should have a greater role in corporations.

So we had apartheid architects who insisted that there was a difference and discriminated on that basis. Now we have neo-apartheid architects who insist that there is no difference and yet continue to discriminate on the basis of something that isn't there.

I wonder how such confused people contine to exist? It does go someway to explaining some of the carnage on the roads - they are oblivious to pedestrian crossings.

Fantastic argument!!!!!

 

[xtermin8or]

The Architects of Apartheid institutionalised racism, and we are left with the remants of those policies, the Affirmative Action policies seek to reverse the effects of racist policies of the past, and if you look at the policy, it is all inclusive, Whites, Coloureds, Indians and Blacks

If we look at the Economically Active Population, we see this breakdown

Blacks - 74.8%
White - 12.1%
Coloured - 10.3%
Indian - 2.8%

We need to see this being represented at all levels of business, but what we are seeing is if we look at top management for eg

Blacks - 18.8%
Whites - 68.2%
Coloureds - 3.9%
Indians - 6.1%

The two sets of figures do not correlate - and therefore Affirmative Action policies must be enforced and strenghtened to reach the desired levels

White Women represent 5.4% of EAPs, and as they are a designated group in the AA policy, they have increased to 9.8%, almost double of what their representation should be, and so the time has come for them to be removed as a designated group, as other groups reach their desired representation level, they will also be removed, until the AA policies become obsolete

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

Ah well I'm doing my bit... early next year the Commission for Employment Equity will have two less highly skilled whiteys in senior management to worry about...

 

[cerebus]

There is a big distinction between societal and inherent racial differences. In this country blacks have always been less educated, so it's natural that a competitive economic environment would favour whites. On those terms then you need to study racial differences as economic demarcators. That isn't to say that there is any natural, sort of birth-endowed white superiority.

 

[vxv]

The Architects of Apartheid institutionalised racism, and we are left with the remants of those policies, the Affirmative Action policies seek to reverse the effects of racist policies of the past, and if you look at the policy, it is all inclusive, Whites, Coloureds, Indians and Blacks

If we look at the Economically Active Population, we see this breakdown

Blacks - 74.8%
White - 12.1%
Coloured - 10.3%
Indian - 2.8%

We need to see this being represented at all levels of business, but what we are seeing is if we look at top management for eg

Blacks - 18.8%
Whites - 68.2%
Coloureds - 3.9%
Indians - 6.1%

The two sets of figures do not correlate - and therefore Affirmative Action policies must be enforced and strengthened to reach the desired levels

White Women represent 5.4% of EAPs, and as they are a designated group in the AA policy, they have increased to 9.8%, almost double of what their representation should be, and so the time has come for them to be removed as a designated group, as other groups reach their desired representation level, they will also be removed, until the AA policies become obsolete

1-this is not reverse this is vice versa
2-the policy is not all inclusive = white male
3-the ratio is not economically active but rather demographic population. If they all were active we won’t be having this conversation.
4-we don’t need to see this at all levels, as we can clearly see the intent and approach is dispersion of funds and NOT enablement. If it was our learning institutions would represent this…
5-that is economic ratios, the ratio is due to a cultural past and a new capitalist economy. The fastest way to equal this is burn all the money in this country and start over.
6-enforce? This seems like conflict…I’m assuming history used as an example is of no-consequence…

I suggest, if you’re a capitalist make your money, then you deserve it.

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

If we look at the Economically Active Population, we see this breakdown

Blacks - 74.8%
White - 12.1%
Coloured - 10.3%
Indian - 2.8%

We need to see this being represented at all levels of business, but what we are seeing is if we look at top management for eg

Blacks - 18.8%
Whites - 68.2%
Coloureds - 3.9%
Indians - 6.1%

The two sets of figures do not correlate - and therefore Affirmative Action policies must be enforced and strenghtened to reach the desired levels

At some point I'd like to see a breakdown at Economically Active skilled vs Economically Active Unskilled... IMO I think we'd see a different pattern then

From my experience, skilled black people have nothing stopping them from getting into senior and top management positions, in fact this is pushed big time in many of the major corporates through accelerated growth and mentorship programs.
One of the biggest challenges facing big business is to get these "identified" people to stick around long enough to actually learn the business so that they can be promoted into positions that require a certail level of experience. Problem is, long before this can be achieved the "candidate" has jumped to 5 different companies for a couple of grand extra and now expects double the pay for very little extra experience.

 

[vxv]

Ah well I'm doing my bit... early next year the Commission for Employment Equity will have two less highly skilled whiteys in senior management to worry about...

Wow, just drag them and their family in the street and hang them. Then you can really prove your bit...

It's surprising to see so much intent there is to separate someone from their lively hood to suggest the illusion of economic transformation.

 

[Krypto]

This opens an interesting philosophical debate.

To persist with differentiation on the basis of skin colour means that there must be s difference between the races. So for years we have had people insisting that there is no difference between the races. Yet today we have those that are most vocal in insisting that there is no difference also being the most vocal in insisting that there is a difference and that black people should have a greater role in corporations.

So we had apartheid architects who insisted that there was a difference and discriminated on that basis. Now we have neo-apartheid architects who insist that there is no difference and yet continue to discriminate on the basis of something that isn't there.

I wonder how such confused people contine to exist? It does go someway to explaining some of the carnage on the roads - they are oblivious to pedestrian crossings.

Fantastic argument!!!!!

Its actually not a fantastic argument, you are apparently easily impressed and potentially biased. Whilst those "neo-apartheid architects" insist that there is no difference that does not mean that we do not have the imbalances resulting from apartheid policies. Those policies have greated imbalances across the racial divides and thats what AA & BEE seeks to address. Read the posts above this for more details.

 

[Bismuth]

My colleague, a black female, recently resigned. The applicants for her position have been predominantly black females, and some males. One white lady, and one Indian lady have also applied. As matter of fact, the white and indian lady made it through the initial screening of applications, it was only some black applications that were rejected so far. I know, as I did the screening. The reasons for rejecting the applications, had nothing to do with skin colour.

I could care less what the applicant's skin colour is, I am looking for someone who can do the job. The only instruction I have received from management is to review the CVs, and select candidates for an interview. Of course, they can override my decision, but they haven't so far, so I don't see why they would start now. I ended up employing a black male last year, but again, it had nothing to do with his skin colour, he was the best candidate for the position.

Please explain what is wrong with this approach?. Without AA, the percentages would probably balance out anyway, due to the population numbers of the different races.

B

 

[vxv]

There is a big distinction between societal and inherent racial differences. In this country blacks have always been less educated, so it's natural that a competitive economic environment would favour whites. On those terms then you need to study racial differences as economic demarcators. That isn't to say that there is any natural, sort of birth-endowed white superiority.

I agree entirely, then we should focus on teaching and enabling our new culture rather than killing them softly...

Also, money is a world trading method. Africa has a culture that can’t or shouldn’t be bought. We should capitalise on that…

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

Wow, just drag them and their family in the street and hang them. Then you can really prove your bit...

It's surprising to see so much intent there is to separate someone from their lively hood to suggest the illusion of economic transformation.

I was talking about myself mate please refer to at end of my post

 

[dlk001]

From my experience, skilled black people have nothing stopping them from getting into senior and top management positions, in fact this is pushed big time in many of the major corporates through accelerated growth and mentorship programs.

From my experience, especially within the field I work in, skilled black people are getting far less opportunities to grow. Its worse for the skilled black foreigners, like the guys from Zimbabwe. Whilst things might have improved in many instances, I certainly have not encountered much of that.

 

[vxv]

Its actually not a fantastic argument, you are apparently easily impressed and potentially biased. Whilst those "neo-apartheid architects" insist that there is no difference that does not mean that we do not have the imbalances resulting from apartheid policies. Those policies have greated imbalances across the racial divides and thats what AA & BEE seeks to address. Read the posts above this for more details.

I enjoy being easily impressed to stimulate in-depth approaches and views, however apartheid had sanctions on them to strain economic growth. Now with our new government we are capitalising on international terms instead of our own fantastic resources and talented youth.

In my opinion, skill is an monetary valuation, not everything great in the world needs to be sold. You can have talent and passion for art as well, or enabling each other.

 

[Nod]

Blacks - 74.8%
White - 12.1%
Coloured - 10.3%
Indian - 2.8%

Lets have a look at these figures.
If you want to have this representation in the workplace, then it stands to reason that in every job type will need these percentages of representation. So, in a law firm, you'll need that percentages. The same for an IT shop.

But, if we look at what actually comes out of university, you'll find that the law firm would probably be ok, but the IT shop will struggle to make those figures. The same with auditing firms (CA required).

This whole ratio argument, assume that this racial ratio is like the golden ratio in nature. But it isn't, so forcing BEE onto a sector that can't make up those employment figures, to get business, is stupid. Unless government can ensure that there are enough graduates in every job type, BEE is not going to work for most.

 

[vxv]

I was talking about myself mate please refer to at end of my post

Well then, i hope you find true happiness without conflict or someone chasing you.

 

[PostmanPot]

This opens an interesting philosophical debate.

To persist with differentiation on the basis of skin colour means that there must be s difference between the races. So for years we have had people insisting that there is no difference between the races. Yet today we have those that are most vocal in insisting that there is no difference also being the most vocal in insisting that there is a difference and that black people should have a greater role in corporations.

So we had apartheid architects who insisted that there was a difference and discriminated on that basis. Now we have neo-apartheid architects who insist that there is no difference and yet continue to discriminate on the basis of something that isn't there.

I wonder how such confused people contine to exist? It does go someway to explaining some of the carnage on the roads - they are oblivious to pedestrian crossings.

The only difference between the races is that one race was afforded opportunity and a good quality of life, and the other wasn't. The "neo-Apartheid architects" are not discriminating on something the "Apartheid architects" were (something on a biological level).

 

[vxv]

My colleague, a black female, recently resigned. The applicants for her position have been predominantly black females, and some males. One white lady, and one Indian lady have also applied. As matter of fact, the white and indian lady made it through the initial screening of applications, it was only some black applications that were rejected so far. I know, as I did the screening. The reasons for rejecting the applications, had nothing to do with skin colour.

I could care less what the applicant's skin colour is, I am looking for someone who can do the job. The only instruction I have received from management is to review the CVs, and select candidates for an interview. Of course, they can override my decision, but they haven't so far, so I don't see why they would start now. I ended up employing a black male last year, but again, it had nothing to do with his skin colour, he was the best candidate for the position.

Please explain what is wrong with this approach?. Without AA, the percentages would probably balance out anyway, due to the population numbers of the different races.

B

Well if you believe in equal opportunity, how many passionate ambitious white males have you employed?

 

[vxv]

From my experience in the company I just joined, skilled black people are getting far less opportunities to grow. Its worse for the skilled black engineers from Zimbabwe. They treated like they don't even exist.

In my last big company, the same trend existed but then, it was the black south africans who got the worst treatment. I would not blame anyone to jump ship when they treated unfairly, given the education and skill they have.

That is unfortunate, and knowing a few Zimbabweans, they are passionate people with strong family values. I hope our culture will empower them as we have been empowered.