White Domination

[vxv]

Lets have a look at these figures.
If you want to have this representation in the workplace, then it stands to reason that in every job type will need these percentages of representation. So, in a law firm, you'll need that percentages. The same for an IT shop.

But, if we look at what actually comes out of university, you'll find that the law firm would probably be ok, but the IT shop will struggle to make those figures. The same with auditing firms (CA required).

This whole ratio argument, assume that this racial ratio is like the golden ratio in nature. But it isn't, so forcing BEE onto a sector that can't make up those employment figures, to get business, is stupid. Unless government can ensure that there are enough graduates in every job type, BEE is not going to work for most.

BEE = dispersion of funds <> enablement. So I agree…

 

[Krypto]

My colleague, a black female, recently resigned. The applicants for her position have been predominantly black females, and some males. One white lady, and one Indian lady have also applied. As matter of fact, the white and indian lady made it through the initial screening of applications, it was only some black applications that were rejected so far. I know, as I did the screening. The reasons for rejecting the applications, had nothing to do with skin colour.

I could care less what the applicant's skin colour is, I am looking for someone who can do the job. The only instruction I have received from management is to review the CVs, and select candidates for an interview. Of course, they can override my decision, but they haven't so far, so I don't see why they would start now. I ended up employing a black male last year, but again, it had nothing to do with his skin colour, he was the best candidate for the position.

Please explain what is wrong with this approach?. Without AA, the percentages would probably balance out anyway, due to the population numbers of the different races.

B

That approach would make the most sense if we never had racial discrimination in SA. Have you noticed the differences in the skills and experience levels in the CV's you get? Do you think its just coincidence that for senior positions its mostly white males who qualify and that they are the ones with the most experience?

The point is that PDI's are disadvantaged as the previous policies limited their chances of being in a position(state) to qualify for such positions. Yes they would balance out eventually but it may take a longer time than the economy can afford and it may other adverse effects given that blacks are a considerable majority in SA.

 

[vxv]

Well there COULD BE, and statistics and scientific studies do very strongly suggest differences, so it is possible, and probably a certainty. We should never study racial differences in a countries dealings and economics, never. If there is a difference then it should be factored as a possibility, and not studied or policies made on it. The government should not try to 'equate' races on income.

The government should investigate what was taken in apartheid, and then give that back. that is all, whites should not pay for the education or advancement levels of there society even before they came here, only and strictly only for what was taken neither for what there biological advantages(or other) bring.

What government is doing, is that it thinks that all races were born equal in physical qualities, this is certainly wrong, it should not think or have anything to do or say with the physical qualities or mental qualities or races. all races were born equal in rights, and that is all, what physical and mental factors bring, should the government have nothing to do of. if they do it would be racist, in the disguise of being non-racist, because you will steal from peoples biological worth, something that needs to be there, and something that they can't help, this is stealing and unfair discrimination.

Well said.

 

[cerebus]

Well there COULD BE, and statistics and scientific studies do very strongly suggest differences, so it is possible, and probably a certainty. We should never study racial differences in a countries dealings and economics, never. If there is a difference then it should be factored as a possibility, and not studied or policies made on it. The government should not try to 'equate' races on income.

Whatever genetic racial differences do exist are relatively superficial and quite easy to equalise. An average black person in the USA is not much different from an average white person, except where the residual impacts of segregation and the ghetto culture (esp. the impacts of crack cocaine) have made themselves felt. But economic, historical or cultural explanations are far preferable to genetic ones because they are apparent and provable.

In England for instance the French and the Irish were once discriminated against just as freely as blacks. But would you argue for English racial superiority over Irish? I doubt it. But where historically the Irish were deprived of the educational and economic resources available to the English, they naturally became the poorer underclass of society.

The government should investigate what was taken in apartheid, and then give that back. that is all, whites should not pay for the education or advancement levels of there society even before they came here, only and strictly only for what was taken neither for what there biological advantages(or other) bring.

You seem to favour simplex, shallow reasoning. I'll rather leave you to it then. Bon chance.

 

[greggpb]

What I don't understand its this.. AA/EE has taken 15 years so far and will take another 15 years at least...... . why are we so focused correcting the current as oppose to correcting the future.. AA/EE just means that a select few prev disadvantages ppl will be able to pull themselfs up to a middle class. and afford nice things... .. quickley and their kids will be educated.

Why not just use the money to make education comply with international standards and free..... then within 30 years.. this would have all sorted its self. out.. as everyone would be on equal footing education and earnings potential is concerned. and i'm not talking about the tiny budgets that educatuon currently gets..

 

[vxv]

You seem to favour simplex, shallow reasoning. I'll rather leave you to it then. Bon chance.

Just burn the money, then we can all get along. There is a simple solution.

 

[dlk001]

That is unfortunate, and knowing a few Zimbabweans, they are passionate people with strong family values. I hope our culture will empower them as we have been empowered.

Its my 2nd month into a new job and so far, I think the guys from Zimbabwe are very bright and hard working. However, during a department lunch, some fellow employees were talking about how stupid and incompetent these guys are.

What is also strange is that we Black South Africans (only 3) get invited to department lunches whilst the black foreigners don't. Anyway, after only 2 months, its not yet clear what the reasons are.

 

[JungleBoy]

Lets have a look at these figures.
If you want to have this representation in the workplace, then it stands to reason that in every job type will need these percentages of representation. So, in a law firm, you'll need that percentages. The same for an IT shop.

But, if we look at what actually comes out of university, you'll find that the law firm would probably be ok, but the IT shop will struggle to make those figures. The same with auditing firms (CA required).

This whole ratio argument, assume that this racial ratio is like the golden ratio in nature. But it isn't, so forcing BEE onto a sector that can't make up those employment figures, to get business, is stupid. Unless government can ensure that there are enough graduates in every job type, BEE is not going to work for most.

Nod, what is your take on UCT's medical school admission policy?

 

[vxv]

What I don't understand its this.. AA/EE has taken 15 years so far and will take another 15 years at least...... . why are we so focused correcting the current as oppose to correcting the future.. AA/EE just means that a select few prev disadvantages ppl will be able to pull themselfs up to a middle class. and afford nice things... .. quickley and their kids will be educated.

Why not just use the money to make education comply with international standards and free..... then within 30 years.. this would have all sorted its self. out.. as everyone would be on equal footing education and earnings potential is concerned. and i'm not talking about the tiny budgets that education currently gets..

I agree, also apartheid or democracy...the BANKS always win and the true beneficiaries have no race.

 

[Nod]

Its my 2nd month into a new job and so far, I think the guys from Zimbabwe are very bright and hard working. However, during a department lunch, some fellow employees were talking about how stupid and incompetent these guys are.

What is also strange is that we Black South Africans (only 3) get invited to department lunches whilst the black foreigners don't. Anyway, after only 2 months, its not yet clear what the reasons are.

Xenophobia. We had an incident at work. One black told another to go back home, as foreigners are not welcome.

 

[cerebus]

Just burn the money, then we can all get along. There is a simple solution.

I've been thinking that a series of group hug sessions between whites and blacks would do the trick. Of course it would have to be enforced by the death penalty.

 

[vxv]

Its my 2nd month into a new job and so far, I think the guys from Zimbabwe are very bright and hard working. However, during a department lunch, some fellow employees were talking about how stupid and incompetent these guys are.

What is also strange is that we Black South Africans (only 3) get invited to department lunches whilst the black foreigners don't. Anyway, after only 2 months, its not yet clear what the reasons are.

Just a new separatist approach. Everyone is scared of change…but the rest of Africa joining our democracy is +1 for us.

 

[vxv]

I've been thinking that a series of group hug sessions between whites and blacks would do the trick. Of course it would have to be enforced by the death penalty.

Lol, . Hugging is here, the back stabbing is however still effective on both sides.

 

[greggpb]

Its my 2nd month into a new job and so far, I think the guys from Zimbabwe are very bright and hard working. However, during a department lunch, some fellow employees were talking about how stupid and incompetent these guys are.

What is also strange is that we Black South Africans (only 3) get invited to department lunches whilst the black foreigners don't. Anyway, after only 2 months, its not yet clear what the reasons are.

The truth is Zimbo's are far better educated that South Africans... doing a-levels at high school.. most of them come down to study at UCT and for the first years just party... cause us South africans doing stuff they did in the last year of high school..

 

[vxv]

Xenophobia. We had an incident at work. One black told another to go back home, as foreigners are not welcome.

We are ALL foreigners in Africa.

 

[Office Furniture]

Why is it always about skin colour, I still say who ever is best for the job, with the right skills to perform the job.

 

[dlk001]

Xenophobia. We had an incident at work. One black told another to go back home, as foreigners are not welcome.

Possibly that is the case. However, in my case, I still do not understand why the company would have a preferential treatment for white foreigners versus black foreigners.

 

[Abe]

We need to see this being represented at all levels of business, but what we are seeing is if we look at top management for eg

Blacks - 18.8%
Whites - 68.2%
Coloureds - 3.9%
Indians - 6.1%

Since you make the answer seem so easy. Please answer these questions for me:

1) What were the figures 10 years ago?
2) What percentage of managers in these groups have been appointed over the last 5 years? It does no good to say that whites make up 68.2% of the management positions if the appointment figures indicate that only 2% of newly appointed managers are white. The old saying, Rome wasn't built in a day applies.
3) What must happen to the existing managers? It seems to me like you would like them to just be fired.
4) Where must these new managers come from? You need to find the right fit for a job. Sticking someone who is not qualified into the position could have a devastating effect on a business.
5) There is a problem where good staff need to be rewarded by promoting them. Take that away and they will just leave. How do you propose that companies get around this?

 

[vxv]

Why is it always about skin colour, I still say who ever is best for the job, with the right skills to perform the job.

+1

 

[Stephen]

Since you make the answer seem so easy. Please answer these questions for me:

1) What were the figures 10 years ago?
2) What percentage of managers in these groups have been appointed over the last 5 years? It does no good to say that whites make up 68.2% of the management positions if the appointment figures indicate that only 2% of newly appointed managers are white. The old saying, Rome wasn't built in a day applies.
3) What must happen to the existing managers? It seems to me like you would like them to just be fired.
4) Where must these new managers come from? You need to find the right fit for a job. Sticking someone who is not qualified into the position could have a devastating effect on a business.
5) There is a problem where good staff need to be rewarded by promoting them. Take that away and they will just leave. How do you propose that companies get around this?

Good points i am eagerly waiting the reply

The question I always ask is what about lower level positions, i.e not managerial positions. When I use to work for a relative big company about 10 year ago I was an endangered species - the evil whitey. They should provide stats for those positions.