Why do we have Affirmative Action?

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Calm down.
The debate has only started.

More like a parent teaching a child the fundamentals of walking. I feel ashamed clarifying matters which should be common sense. I guess they don't teach comprehension the way they used to
 
Because you are already getting a fair share of opportunities. Answer this question honestly: How many White Afrikaans men do you know that are unemployed involuntarily?

Why would you have AA and BEE if you have nothing to fear?

Can it possibly be that without AA and BEE you guys won't get anywhere?

Can it possibly be that you cannot hold your own in the marketplace and in order to get employed you guys decided to force the issue with laws.?
 
That would place you in a small minority of whites who are willing to give everyone a chance based on merit. Sadly the average Van Der Merwe is not prepared to hence AA steps in to level the playing field.

How level do you intend making it?

How long do you intend to level the field?
For ever?
 
Utter and complete BS!

This country never had a power crisis before 1994. It very seldom had transmission problems with television either.

Yeah but lol, we're going off the point a bit mate. Before 1994 our government was not much better. We had (real, in the open) racism, we had a steadily declining currency, we had bad debt, we only had SABC and (most of all) that's when telkom was born!
Even further back, remember the fights between the 'natte' & 'sappe' :eek:
 
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=309653&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

SA still needs affirmative action

In recent months a rising chorus has argued for an end to affirmative action.

A range of white commentators and white-dominated organisations has argued for a “sunset clause” on affirmative action policies so that the good intentions of what is otherwise morally justifiable legislation will not eventually translate into apartheid in reverse.

Some commentators have the audacity to claim that affirmative action has introduced mediocrity into the South African corporate environment because it relegates merit to the periphery. Others opine that younger whites are not the beneficiaries of the racist apartheid era, and should not be punished for the sins of earlier generations.

I find all these arguments to be badly flawed and superficial, deliberately ignoring the realities of South Africa’s social and economic structure.

The obscene employment imbalances prevalent in the corporate world should convince any level-headed South African that it would be premature to end affirmative action. Organisational demographics at senior levels are nowhere near reflecting national demographics. It is common knowledge that management and boards are still predominantly white. In contrast, jobs such as refreshments assistants, security guards, cleaners and construction workers are notably devoid of whites.

The level of poverty in African communities in particular, where a large percentage of the population still lives on less than $1 a day, illustrates the extent to which affirmative action has not even scratched the surface in attempting to redress the imbalances of the past.

None of my white friends are unemployed unless it is by choice -- having the luxury of being able to make that decision. But I have an army of black friends and acquaintances who would take any job.

This is genuine unemployment -- and this is where the relevance of affirmative action cannot be questioned by anyone who still has a moral beacon.

There is a malicious myth that blacks are synonymous with mediocrity and incompetence. In my corporate experience, I have come across as many incompetent white managers as incompetent black managers. By the same token, I have seen enormously talented individuals of all races.

As everyone should know, black South Africans were deprived of opportunities and access to participate in the economic mainstream for decades.

Consider how the resulting entrenched imbalances will persist. A child born into a middle-income family is more likely to have access to a computer, internet, TV and other facilities at a much earlier stage in life, and will probably have better schooling. His or her academic success is likely to be better than that of a child who is born into a poor rural family in Nquthu, who has no access to TV, internet, basic books or decent schooling.

To imagine that redress can be achieved only 13 years after apartheid came to an end is ludicrous -- or at the very least demonstrates a fantastic sense of imagination. “Post-1994” whites continue to benefit from the vantage point that the apartheid system facilitated for their parents.

Empirical analysis of unemployment trends from September 2001 to September 2006 does not support the views advanced by the DA, Freedom Front Plus, Solidarity and those similarly inclined.

Statistics SA figures show that the unemployment rate fell from 29,4% in 2001 to 25,5% in 2006. A profound statistic is that unemployment among whites fell from 5,8% to 4,5% in the same period. This level of unemployment compares favourably with countries such as Germany, Japan and the United States. During the same period, unemployment among black Africans fell more rapidly, from 35,7% to 30,5%.

These statistics show two worlds living side by side. They also demonstrate that our society needs affirmative action. But we also need more scholarly investigation and debate on the subject.

Where social and national discourse is premised on bigotry and narrow nationalist interests, the outcome is bound to be counter*productive. Black South Africans have always been willing to engage objectively in such debates for the good of the broader nation. If a common standpoint were to be adopted, the potential of the South African citizenry would grow tremendously.

Should South Africa allow affirmative action policies to stay in place until the returns diminish? While the answer is an emphatic “No”, affirmative action should not be terminated prematurely, before tangible benefits accrue to the intended beneficiaries. If not fully redressed now, this country’s social and economic imbalances may turn out to be a powder keg.

Mandla Nyathi is a human resources professional and a post-graduate student at Wits, writing in his personal capacity
 
Yeah but lol, we're going off the point a bit mate. Before 1994 our government was not much better. We had (real, in the open) racism, we had a steadily declining currency, we had bad debt, we only had SABC and (most of all) that's when telkom was born!
Even further back, remember the fights between the 'natte' & 'sappe' :eek:

True.The Nats really buggered it up.
In their favour: At least they kept the infrastructure in good condition.
 
The government should really force more training programmes on companies instead of AA. That way ppl who fall under AA can all be educated and trained to do their job and grow from there. Education and training is the future for this country. You earn your place and ppl will respect you and you'll respect yourself for doing it the hard way.

Instead people are being shoved into a role they are not qualified to do.
If you want a job then you should be selected for it based on merit by having the correct skills that fit the role no matter what you look like or where you come from.

A person who is in a role and is not qualified to do it is a fraudster a.
 
Why would you have AA and BEE if you have nothing to fear?

Can it possibly be that without AA and BEE you guys won't get anywhere?

Can it possibly be that you cannot hold your own in the marketplace and in order to get employed you guys decided to force the issue with laws.?

I have answered those question already. Perhaps it is not easy to understand something written by a black person after all your parents must have taught you to do all the talking when engaging with blacks. No "Yes Baas" here. You will have to write far more sense to get more respect for your currently shallow views. Perhaps you have already realised being locked in an argument with this particular darkie is self-defeating. Now who has something to fear again?
 
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=309653&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

SA still needs affirmative action

In recent months a rising chorus has argued for an end to affirmative action.

A range of white commentators and white-dominated organisations has argued for a “sunset clause” on affirmative action policies so that the good intentions of what is otherwise morally justifiable legislation will not eventually translate into apartheid in reverse.

Some commentators have the audacity to claim that affirmative action has introduced mediocrity into the South African corporate environment because it relegates merit to the periphery. Others opine that younger whites are not the beneficiaries of the racist apartheid era, and should not be punished for the sins of earlier generations.

I find all these arguments to be badly flawed and superficial, deliberately ignoring the realities of South Africa’s social and economic structure.

The obscene employment imbalances prevalent in the corporate world should convince any level-headed South African that it would be premature to end affirmative action. Organisational demographics at senior levels are nowhere near reflecting national demographics. It is common knowledge that management and boards are still predominantly white. In contrast, jobs such as refreshments assistants, security guards, cleaners and construction workers are notably devoid of whites.

The level of poverty in African communities in particular, where a large percentage of the population still lives on less than $1 a day, illustrates the extent to which affirmative action has not even scratched the surface in attempting to redress the imbalances of the past.

None of my white friends are unemployed unless it is by choice -- having the luxury of being able to make that decision. But I have an army of black friends and acquaintances who would take any job.

This is genuine unemployment -- and this is where the relevance of affirmative action cannot be questioned by anyone who still has a moral beacon.

There is a malicious myth that blacks are synonymous with mediocrity and incompetence. In my corporate experience, I have come across as many incompetent white managers as incompetent black managers. By the same token, I have seen enormously talented individuals of all races.

As everyone should know, black South Africans were deprived of opportunities and access to participate in the economic mainstream for decades.

Consider how the resulting entrenched imbalances will persist. A child born into a middle-income family is more likely to have access to a computer, internet, TV and other facilities at a much earlier stage in life, and will probably have better schooling. His or her academic success is likely to be better than that of a child who is born into a poor rural family in Nquthu, who has no access to TV, internet, basic books or decent schooling.

To imagine that redress can be achieved only 13 years after apartheid came to an end is ludicrous -- or at the very least demonstrates a fantastic sense of imagination. “Post-1994” whites continue to benefit from the vantage point that the apartheid system facilitated for their parents.

Empirical analysis of unemployment trends from September 2001 to September 2006 does not support the views advanced by the DA, Freedom Front Plus, Solidarity and those similarly inclined.

Statistics SA figures show that the unemployment rate fell from 29,4% in 2001 to 25,5% in 2006. A profound statistic is that unemployment among whites fell from 5,8% to 4,5% in the same period. This level of unemployment compares favourably with countries such as Germany, Japan and the United States. During the same period, unemployment among black Africans fell more rapidly, from 35,7% to 30,5%.

These statistics show two worlds living side by side. They also demonstrate that our society needs affirmative action. But we also need more scholarly investigation and debate on the subject.

Where social and national discourse is premised on bigotry and narrow nationalist interests, the outcome is bound to be counter*productive. Black South Africans have always been willing to engage objectively in such debates for the good of the broader nation. If a common standpoint were to be adopted, the potential of the South African citizenry would grow tremendously.

Should South Africa allow affirmative action policies to stay in place until the returns diminish? While the answer is an emphatic “No”, affirmative action should not be terminated prematurely, before tangible benefits accrue to the intended beneficiaries. If not fully redressed now, this country’s social and economic imbalances may turn out to be a powder keg.

Mandla Nyathi is a human resources professional and a post-graduate student at Wits, writing in his personal capacity

How serious should we take this guy?

A black man writing an article about affirmative action.................

It would probably be the same as me writing an article about how good racism is.................

Would you believe me?
 
I have answered those question already. Perhaps it is not easy to understand something written by a black person after all your parents must have taught you to do all the talking when engaging with blacks. No "Yes Baas" here. You will have to write far more sense to get more respect for your currently shallow views. Perhaps you have already realised being locked in an argument with this particular darkie is self-defeating. Now who has something to fear again?

You are not allowed to use the word d@rkie.
I got an infraction for that.
 
The government should really force more training programmes on companies instead of AA. That way ppl who fall under AA can all be educated and trained to do their job and grow from there. Education and training is the future for this country. You earn your place and ppl will respect you and you'll respect yourself for doing it the hard way.

Instead people are being shoved into a role they are not qualified to do.
If you want a job then you should be selected for it based on merit by having the correct skills that fit the role no matter what you look like or where you come from.

A person who is in a role and is not qualified to do it is a fraudster a.

While I agree with most of your post, I don't agree with the generalisation you are making that all AA candidates don't have skills to perform their jobs properly. I work with 2 incompetent white women under me but I can't complain to my white superiors becuase I'm more likely to get the chop for demanding perfomance than the white ladies are for underperfoming. If people say AA is reverse racism then that's what it takes to level the playing field. It seems this reverse racism is necessary to balance the equation.
 
I have answered those question already. Perhaps it is not easy to understand something written by a black person after all your parents must have taught you to do all the talking when engaging with blacks. No "Yes Baas" here. You will have to write far more sense to get more respect for your currently shallow views. Perhaps you have already realised being locked in an argument with this particular darkie is self-defeating. Now who has something to fear again?

I do not have a problem entering into a debate with an intelligent Black person.

You really think i cannot hold my own?

Do you have lots of time?
 
talentedone said:
That is why a statement like "current generation of whites was not responsible for Apartheid" or "reverse racism" is just downright ignorance
talentedone said:
If people say AA is reverse racism then that's what it takes to level the playing field. It seems this reverse racism is necessary to balance the equation.
:confused:
 
While I agree with most of your post, I don't agree with the generalisation you are making that all AA candidates don't have skills to perform their jobs properly. I work with 2 incompetent white women under me but I can't complain to my white superiors becuase I'm more likely to get the chop for demanding perfomance than the white ladies are for underperfoming. If people say AA is reverse racism then that's what it takes to level the playing field. It seems this reverse racism is necessary to balance the equation.

It gives a sense of power stating that you have two incompetent white women working under you, doesn't it?

I wonder what their opinion of you are?

They are not here to defend themselves, are they?
 
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=309653&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

SA still needs affirmative action

In recent months a rising chorus has argued for an end to affirmative action.

A range of white commentators and white-dominated organisations has argued for a “sunset clause” on affirmative action policies so that the good intentions of what is otherwise morally justifiable legislation will not eventually translate into apartheid in reverse.

Some commentators have the audacity to claim that affirmative action has introduced mediocrity into the South African corporate environment because it relegates merit to the periphery. Others opine that younger whites are not the beneficiaries of the racist apartheid era, and should not be punished for the sins of earlier generations.

I find all these arguments to be badly flawed and superficial, deliberately ignoring the realities of South Africa’s social and economic structure.

The obscene employment imbalances prevalent in the corporate world should convince any level-headed South African that it would be premature to end affirmative action. Organisational demographics at senior levels are nowhere near reflecting national demographics. It is common knowledge that management and boards are still predominantly white. In contrast, jobs such as refreshments assistants, security guards, cleaners and construction workers are notably devoid of whites.

The level of poverty in African communities in particular, where a large percentage of the population still lives on less than $1 a day, illustrates the extent to which affirmative action has not even scratched the surface in attempting to redress the imbalances of the past.

None of my white friends are unemployed unless it is by choice -- having the luxury of being able to make that decision. But I have an army of black friends and acquaintances who would take any job.

This is genuine unemployment -- and this is where the relevance of affirmative action cannot be questioned by anyone who still has a moral beacon.

There is a malicious myth that blacks are synonymous with mediocrity and incompetence. In my corporate experience, I have come across as many incompetent white managers as incompetent black managers. By the same token, I have seen enormously talented individuals of all races.

As everyone should know, black South Africans were deprived of opportunities and access to participate in the economic mainstream for decades.

Consider how the resulting entrenched imbalances will persist. A child born into a middle-income family is more likely to have access to a computer, internet, TV and other facilities at a much earlier stage in life, and will probably have better schooling. His or her academic success is likely to be better than that of a child who is born into a poor rural family in Nquthu, who has no access to TV, internet, basic books or decent schooling.

To imagine that redress can be achieved only 13 years after apartheid came to an end is ludicrous -- or at the very least demonstrates a fantastic sense of imagination. “Post-1994” whites continue to benefit from the vantage point that the apartheid system facilitated for their parents.

Empirical analysis of unemployment trends from September 2001 to September 2006 does not support the views advanced by the DA, Freedom Front Plus, Solidarity and those similarly inclined.

Statistics SA figures show that the unemployment rate fell from 29,4% in 2001 to 25,5% in 2006. A profound statistic is that unemployment among whites fell from 5,8% to 4,5% in the same period. This level of unemployment compares favourably with countries such as Germany, Japan and the United States. During the same period, unemployment among black Africans fell more rapidly, from 35,7% to 30,5%.

These statistics show two worlds living side by side. They also demonstrate that our society needs affirmative action. But we also need more scholarly investigation and debate on the subject.

Where social and national discourse is premised on bigotry and narrow nationalist interests, the outcome is bound to be counter*productive. Black South Africans have always been willing to engage objectively in such debates for the good of the broader nation. If a common standpoint were to be adopted, the potential of the South African citizenry would grow tremendously.

Should South Africa allow affirmative action policies to stay in place until the returns diminish? While the answer is an emphatic “No”, affirmative action should not be terminated prematurely, before tangible benefits accrue to the intended beneficiaries. If not fully redressed now, this country’s social and economic imbalances may turn out to be a powder keg.

Mandla Nyathi is a human resources professional and a post-graduate student at Wits, writing in his personal capacity

While I understand this, stats never tell the full tale. Does it take into account the countless professionals that has left the country because they lost their jobs?

Does it take into account that for the most part white people still have white friends while black people still have black friends? I know of lots of white people who are (really) skilled who don't want to leave the country. So from where I am standing that could easily lead to the stats showing better employment for white people, since STATISTICALLY, there are fewer of them thus stats will always seem bloated.

"To imagine that redress can be achieved only 13 years after apartheid came to an end is ludicrous -- or at the very least demonstrates a fantastic sense of imagination. “Post-1994” whites continue to benefit from the vantage point that the apartheid system facilitated for their parents"...lol
Now this is utter crap. How rich did some of our black polititians become since 1994. How rich is Tokyo Sexwale and when did he become this rich?
Despite Eskom not meeting their demand, their top manamegent received something like R143m (citation needed) in bonusses. CEO Thulani Gcabashe, MD's Thulani Gcabashe and Ayanda Noah all sound very white afrikaans to me!

Point is, nothing has changed, government still screws the people (all people). Crime affects us all, not just the white upperclass or black lowerclass, or black upperclass or white lowerclass, ALL OF US.

Impliment AA they way it is meant to be and there will be (fewer) issues.
 
How serious should we take this guy?

A black man writing an article about affirmative action.................

It would probably be the same as me writing an article about how good racism is.................

Would you believe me?

It's not so much he's opinion I'm interested but rather the stats he provides to suppoort his argument. He prooves that statistically whites are doing even better with AA then before. AA has not had the perceived drastic negative effect that many in this forum thumb-suck out of convinience.
 
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=309653&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

SA still needs affirmative action

In recent months a rising chorus has argued for an end to affirmative action.

A range of white commentators and white-dominated organisations has argued for a “sunset clause” on affirmative action policies so that the good intentions of what is otherwise morally justifiable legislation will not eventually translate into apartheid in reverse.

Some commentators have the audacity to claim that affirmative action has introduced mediocrity into the South African corporate environment because it relegates merit to the periphery. Others opine that younger whites are not the beneficiaries of the racist apartheid era, and should not be punished for the sins of earlier generations.

I find all these arguments to be badly flawed and superficial, deliberately ignoring the realities of South Africa’s social and economic structure.

The obscene employment imbalances prevalent in the corporate world should convince any level-headed South African that it would be premature to end affirmative action. Organisational demographics at senior levels are nowhere near reflecting national demographics. It is common knowledge that management and boards are still predominantly white. In contrast, jobs such as refreshments assistants, security guards, cleaners and construction workers are notably devoid of whites.

The level of poverty in African communities in particular, where a large percentage of the population still lives on less than $1 a day, illustrates the extent to which affirmative action has not even scratched the surface in attempting to redress the imbalances of the past.

None of my white friends are unemployed unless it is by choice -- having the luxury of being able to make that decision. But I have an army of black friends and acquaintances who would take any job.

This is genuine unemployment -- and this is where the relevance of affirmative action cannot be questioned by anyone who still has a moral beacon.

There is a malicious myth that blacks are synonymous with mediocrity and incompetence. In my corporate experience, I have come across as many incompetent white managers as incompetent black managers. By the same token, I have seen enormously talented individuals of all races.

As everyone should know, black South Africans were deprived of opportunities and access to participate in the economic mainstream for decades.

Consider how the resulting entrenched imbalances will persist. A child born into a middle-income family is more likely to have access to a computer, internet, TV and other facilities at a much earlier stage in life, and will probably have better schooling. His or her academic success is likely to be better than that of a child who is born into a poor rural family in Nquthu, who has no access to TV, internet, basic books or decent schooling.

To imagine that redress can be achieved only 13 years after apartheid came to an end is ludicrous -- or at the very least demonstrates a fantastic sense of imagination. “Post-1994” whites continue to benefit from the vantage point that the apartheid system facilitated for their parents.

Empirical analysis of unemployment trends from September 2001 to September 2006 does not support the views advanced by the DA, Freedom Front Plus, Solidarity and those similarly inclined.

Statistics SA figures show that the unemployment rate fell from 29,4% in 2001 to 25,5% in 2006. A profound statistic is that unemployment among whites fell from 5,8% to 4,5% in the same period. This level of unemployment compares favourably with countries such as Germany, Japan and the United States. During the same period, unemployment among black Africans fell more rapidly, from 35,7% to 30,5%.

These statistics show two worlds living side by side. They also demonstrate that our society needs affirmative action. But we also need more scholarly investigation and debate on the subject.

Where social and national discourse is premised on bigotry and narrow nationalist interests, the outcome is bound to be counter*productive. Black South Africans have always been willing to engage objectively in such debates for the good of the broader nation. If a common standpoint were to be adopted, the potential of the South African citizenry would grow tremendously.

Should South Africa allow affirmative action policies to stay in place until the returns diminish? While the answer is an emphatic “No”, affirmative action should not be terminated prematurely, before tangible benefits accrue to the intended beneficiaries. If not fully redressed now, this country’s social and economic imbalances may turn out to be a powder keg.

Mandla Nyathi is a human resources professional and a post-graduate student at Wits, writing in his personal capacity

also quoting the long article....
 
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