Why not use Solar Panels instead of using generators?

[kaspaas]

Why did they not buy Nanosolar (or a similar company)?

Or at least start a factory on ZA soil.

Just think how many kW's could have come from solar already if they did it the beginning of the year.

 

[Ozymandias]

I think the problem is where do they store that power, it will be fine during the day but what about at night time?

I don't think that they would rely solely on solar power but would more likely, rely on a hybrid solution of wind power, solar power etc. Coal-fired power or whatever, would be used to back up any deficiencies.

 

[sand_man]

I don't think that they would rely solely on solar power but would more likely, rely on a hybrid solution of wind power, solar power etc. Coal-fired power or whatever, would be used to back up any deficiencies.

And you can add wave power to that list, generated by the oceans waves... There has been serious progress made in wave generated power... I think if the human race is going to survive, these infinite sources of potential power need to be exploited. Human excrement and methane plants are another source of power as documented on carte blanche not so long ago.

 

[Pilgrim]

And you can add wave power to that list, generated by the oceans waves... There has been serious progress made in wave generated power... I think if the human race is going to survive, these infinite sources of potential power need to be exploited. Human excrement and methane plants are another source of power as documented on carte blanche not so long ago.

Nou praat jy k@k man

I would love it if our country could start generating free and clean energy. The problem is cost. It is cheaper to build enough coal fired plants than enough solar/wind/wave/sh*t powered plants. And to the people in power in this country that is all that matters.

Why spend more now to save in the future? Only NOW exists, tomorrow is a perception...

 

[BCO]

Nou praat jy k@k man

I would love it if our country could start generating free and clean energy. The problem is cost. It is cheaper to build enough coal fired plants than enough solar/wind/wave/sh*t powered plants. And to the people in power in this country that is all that matters.

Why spend more now to save in the future? Only NOW exists, tomorrow is a perception...

So sad, yet so true.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I have one issue with things like wind power and wave power.... granted they're "renewable" but surely when you start altering wind patterns and even ocean patterns by drawing energy out of it then you're going to start having consequences that you didn't think of....

Nothing is for free in this world...

 

[Sly21C]

Nou praat jy k@k man

I would love it if our country could start generating free and clean energy. The problem is cost. It is cheaper to build enough coal fired plants than enough solar/wind/wave/sh*t powered plants. And to the people in power in this country that is all that matters.

Why spend more now to save in the future? Only NOW exists, tomorrow is a perception...

That's a shame, you don't seem to care about the future at all, and eskom has that mindset as well. The truth is that in the long term, green house gas producing coal powered stations are more expensive to society than solar panels/ wind turbines/ wave, etc. They (coal power stations) emit carbon dioxide, too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere leads to climate change and therefore floods, drought, hurricans, etc. Infrastructure gets damaged, people are injured or they die, people go hungry and in most of these cases state money is being used to provide shelter to victims of a hurricane for example, bridges have to be repaired. So it is expensive in the long term to continue using coal to generate electricity.

 

[icyrus]

I have one issue with things like wind power and wave power.... granted they're "renewable" but surely when you start altering wind patterns and even ocean patterns by drawing energy out of it then you're going to start having consequences that you didn't think of....

Nothing is for free in this world...

That argument might have some credibility for certain types of tidal power but its pretty weak against wind power. If it was a real concern we never would have built a single building greater that 2 stories high.

 

[ToxicBunny]

This is true... I just wonder about some of the ideas these guys are talking about, in terms of radically tall wind turbines, which will obviously slow some winds down and they might be performing a vital ecological function.....

This is more just me wondering than an actual argument/opinion on them.... They're better than the current power methods being employed but do we actually know what the long term effects will be of the "free" power sources.

 

[sand_man]

The problem is cost. It is cheaper to build enough coal fired plants than enough solar/wind/wave/sh*t powered plants.

It would be cheaper to build coal powered plants yes but to generate electricity mountains of coal, which isn't so cheap is required while a solar plant would only require sunlight.

 

[Paulr]

Makes you think

This is true... I just wonder about some of the ideas these guys are talking about, in terms of radically tall wind turbines, which will obviously slow some winds down and they might be performing a vital ecological function.....

This is more just me wondering than an actual argument/opinion on them.... They're better than the current power methods being employed but do we actually know what the long term effects will be of the "free" power sources.

I was also thinking that. Surely the first people to build a coal fired power station back in whenever never thought that the bit of smoke they put up in the air would cause a problem... Make it a worldwide thing and the problem becomes apparent.

Would there actually be an effect on local/global climates etc. if you have a few million huge wind turbines "absorbing" a large amount of the wind?

Not that I'm against wind/solar/whatever renewable and non polluting source of power at all. With our current technology it is the best long term sustainable solutions available.

But it would be interesting to see in 100 or 200 years what effect some of the newer, currently viewed as enviromentally friendly, technologies have...

 

[onebrickshort]

Does spending R700k on a fancy SUV make any financial sense either?

Yes if you need a tax write off at least in some countries. Used to be the case here, but I think they've lowered the limit.

 

[reech]

Now if the govt forced Eskom to offer Net metering : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering - for green generation as has been done in the states and other places - the economies of would be quite different. No need for complicated, expensive storage, and you feed power into the grid.

Will it ever happen though?

 

[pietb]

Because of Eskom's inability to supply South Africa's electricity demand and the effects coal power stations have on the environment as a result of carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere and causing climate change, we as South Africans should start using solar panels and wind turbines as well.

A lot of people are using generators, but generators harm the environment as much as eskom's power stations. Generators are also expensive as much as solar panels. So why not use solar panels instead of generators?

There are a lot of people in SA who can afford to install solar panels in their homes but they are not, instead they still continue to use either eskom's electricity or generators. Ofcourse there are a few who have solar panels and solar water heaters installed in their homes, but they are few and far in between.

When I am talking about solar panels, I am not refering to solar water heaters that only heat water in our homes, but refering to powering each and every appliance in our homes.

I for one cannot afford solar panels, and there are a lot of south africans who also cannot afford them, but there are a few people who can, and for those who can, why don't they use solar panels? I don't think it's the cost.

To come back to the original post:

I am in the business and my experience is that rich people just don't care enough (OK I said MY experience!)

The normal, avearage person want to go solar for this reasonsmy experience)

- they are gatvol for Eskom, the govt, municipality
- they want to go green
- they want to save money
- they went through a 5 day blackout (PE) and will do anything to have warm water

Then 99% of them want a subsidy from Eskom, the govt, municipality so they don't do it.

Yes. Going solar is expensive and it is not for everyone.

If you want to go solar do it in stages:

- Solar geyser 1st. Save 33% electricity. Payback getting shorter as Eskom bonuses gets bigger

- Cooking 2nd. Save 20% by cooking on gas. Payback as above.

- Lights and TV, cell charger, laptop 3rd. There are very nice 12v LED down lights available today. (I am not talking about the crap at the big hardware shops. ) PV panels, controller, batteries to run a few lights at a time in your house can be affordable.

Now you are nearly self sufficient in case of a blackout.

- Beer and meat 4th. Essential to keep cold. A chest freezer can be economical on electricity. Some of the modern fridges also use little electricity. Add a few panels, controller, batteries and inverter with your next bonus.

Now Eskom can sell all of their old power stations

Shave your hair - no hairdryer and related appliances necessary

- Vacuum cleaner, washing machine, tumble dryer, food processor and such 5th. Get rid of the tumble dryer. Washing machine on cold wash only. Vacuum cleaner - depending on wattage will work for 30 min or so. Food processor will work for a few minutes. But add a few panels, controller, batteries and inverter with your next next bonus.

- Electric tools. If you are a handyman you can move this category of appliances to either above or below the beer and meat. Go cordless. If you are a woman: Shave your hair - no hairdryer and related appliances necessary

All in all it is expensive but not impossible.

It will require a slight change in habits but we do this for the environment don't we?

My recommendation:

Solar water heater
Gas stove
Backup electrical power for a few lights, Tv, DSTV, cell, laptop
Kruger Rands
Cash
Tank full of fuel if you can afford it

 

[Sly21C]

To come back to the original post:

I am in the business and my experience is that rich people just don't care enough (OK I said MY experience!)

The normal, avearage person want to go solar for this reasonsmy experience)

- they are gatvol for Eskom, the govt, municipality
- they want to go green
- they want to save money
- they went through a 5 day blackout (PE) and will do anything to have warm water

Then 99% of them want a subsidy from Eskom, the govt, municipality so they don't do it.

Yes. Going solar is expensive and it is not for everyone.

If you want to go solar do it in stages:

- Solar geyser 1st. Save 33% electricity. Payback getting shorter as Eskom bonuses gets bigger

- Cooking 2nd. Save 20% by cooking on gas. Payback as above.

- Lights and TV, cell charger, laptop 3rd. There are very nice 12v LED down lights available today. (I am not talking about the crap at the big hardware shops. ) PV panels, controller, batteries to run a few lights at a time in your house can be affordable.

Now you are nearly self sufficient in case of a blackout.

- Beer and meat 4th. Essential to keep cold. A chest freezer can be economical on electricity. Some of the modern fridges also use little electricity. Add a few panels, controller, batteries and inverter with your next bonus.

Now Eskom can sell all of their old power stations

Shave your hair - no hairdryer and related appliances necessary

- Vacuum cleaner, washing machine, tumble dryer, food processor and such 5th. Get rid of the tumble dryer. Washing machine on cold wash only. Vacuum cleaner - depending on wattage will work for 30 min or so. Food processor will work for a few minutes. But add a few panels, controller, batteries and inverter with your next next bonus.

- Electric tools. If you are a handyman you can move this category of appliances to either above or below the beer and meat. Go cordless. If you are a woman: Shave your hair - no hairdryer and related appliances necessary

All in all it is expensive but not impossible.

It will require a slight change in habits but we do this for the environment don't we?

My recommendation:

Solar water heater
Gas stove
Backup electrical power for a few lights, Tv, DSTV, cell, laptop
Kruger Rands
Cash
Tank full of fuel if you can afford it

Thanks for the tips, and I really wish that rich people cared about going green and protecting the environment and therefore making use of solar panels, wind turbines and other alternative energy.

You mentioned that you are in this business, do you mind if I ask what does your business or business that you work for do exectly? To be honest, I'm in the civil engineering business and I would love to be involved somehow in the solar panel business industry or any alternative energy industry that promotes clean energy.

Maybe I can knock on the rich people's homes and try to sell them solar panels or try to convince them to have solar panels installed in their homes.

 

[R/SGT]

Interesting company

Dear Nanosolar friend:

We wanted to let you know of a major milestone in solar energy technology we have now achieved: The solar industry's first 1GW production tool.

Yes, that's 1GW of capacity from a single production tool!

You can see it yourself in action in a video we have decided to release and share with you.

Most production tools in the solar industry tend to have 10-30MW in annual production capacity. So how is it possible to have a single tool with Gigawatt throughput?

This feat is fundamentally enabled through the proprietary nanoparticle ink we have invested so many years developing. It allows us to deliver efficient solar cells (presently up to more than 14%) that are simply printed.

Printing is a simple, fast, and robust coating process that in particular eliminates the need for expensive high-vacuum chambers as traditionally used to deposit thin films.

Our 1GW CIGS coater cost $1.65 million. At the 100 feet-per-minute speed shown in the video, that's an astonishing two orders of magnitude more capital efficient than a high-vacuum process: a twenty times slower high-vacuum tool would have cost about ten times as much per tool.

There's still a lot of hard work to be done for us to bring solar power everywhere. But at this time we wanted to share with you our excitement about transformational progress happening.

Thank you for your continued support of Nanosolar. While deployment of our product will focus over the next 12 months on installations with our wholesale customers (which includes the world's largest utility), we are looking forward to making our products more broadly available to everyone in 2009.

Martin Roscheisen
CEO, Nanosolar Inc.

 

[BCO]

Nanosolar looks very exciting if they can deliver on their promises.

@ pietb - I'm on your stage 4!

Stage 1. SWH -check.
Stage 2. Gas stove and heaters - check (long live Egoli gas).
Stage 3. Lights, cell/laptop charger - check.
Stage 4. Fridge - still saving

 

[Kokop]

The first pilot project for wind turbines has started on the west coast just outside Yzterfontein.

Eskom is planning a pilot solar plant outside Kimberly.

So things are moving in the right direction, just not quickly enough.

I still advocate that each property on the coast from Richards Bay to the Orange river should have a small wind turbine attached. These can then power the house, and when there is excess capacity, it feeds into the grid.

If these mini wind turbines where produced by the millions, economies of scale would come into play. (about R25k for these currently) Plus its local, quick and creates jobs (factory/installations/maintenance)

Think of how many could be installed in the 10 years it takes for coal/15 years for nuclear plants to come online.

Eskom should seriously look at the mico generators available with a view to adding these to the grid.

I would be stoked to see a gale force SE howling in CT with a little meter that indicates I have trickled x kwh back into the grid.

Just my 2c

 

[Turiko]

The biggest problem with solar panels is the efficiency. As the efficiency of a panel increases, so does the cost, astronomically.

I can get a lekker big solar panel for R800, but it can only put out a rotten 15 watts. What can you do with that? Charge a battery maybe but not drive any sizeable load.

 

[ld13]

I still advocate that each property on the coast from Richards Bay to the Orange river should have a small wind turbine attached. These can then power the house, and when there is excess capacity, it feeds into the grid.

If these mini wind turbines where produced by the millions, economies of scale would come into play. (about R25k for these currently) Plus its local, quick and creates jobs (factory/installations/maintenance)

A mini turbine just won't cut it. Will be too expensive to put this looong pole there but then to only use it for this small little mini turbine. If you want to do it you might as well do it properly. Then there is also no way you are going to put one of these Big Monsters at each and every house. 2 Problems... low frequency noise/noise and shadow flickering. Wind turbines close to homes/residential areas can irritate the hell out of the people there. So if you want to push money into these things, get a hill or something - space them out nicely and let them work. There are some other minor concerns about them, but those only kicks in when they are not maintained properly. Oh wait, this is SA - No such word as maintain in the dictionaries here - my bad.