Why the Obama Campaign Will Ultimately Fail

I see this thread has run far from its original course :D

You guys take it easy on Obama, now, he doesn't need too much help embarrassing himself.

My promised link on McCain's legislative record:

http://blueollie.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/experience-mccain-obama-and-clinton-compared-objectively/

This is the best I can do on short notice. Gives a pretty good rundown. Anyone else is welcome to say that McCain DOESN'T have a lot of legislation passed and I will happily shred them. :D

My take:

Obama = Bad

McCain = Bad-ish

Bob Barr = Pretty good.

That is all.
 
The Ever-'Present' Obama

Barack has a along track record of not taking a stand.

What's stopped us is the failure of leadership, the smallness of our politics--the ease with which we're distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions," Obama said in his announcement speech. But a closer look at the presidential candidate's record in the Illinois Legislature reveals something seemingly contradictory: a number of occasions when Obama avoided making hard choices.
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McCain?... oh the guy that allowed 133 sailors to perish.
It portrays him running from his burning jet on the Forrestal’s deck and virtually hiding in the carrier’s ward room while others died fighting the ferocious fire and exploding ordnance. In all, 133 sailors died in the tragedy.

Publicly, McCain’s campaign has ignored the story. It also declined to respond to my requests by phone and e-mail for a comment on the story’s accuracy.

Likewise, it has not responded to slashing blogs circulating intensely on the Web that offer an even darker view of the Forrestal incident.

According to these accounts, McCain, whose A4-E Skyhawk was queued up in a line of jets waiting to take off, “wet started” his engine, a prank designed to startle a trailing pilot with a flame of exploding kerosene.
Normally, it’s a harmless, common stunt by “cowboy pilots.” But on this occasion the exploding kerosene caused a six-foot long Zuni rocket under the trailing pilot’s wing to launch across the flight deck.

“[It] ripped through the fuel tank of McCain’s aircraft,” Dickinson writes. “Hundreds of gallons of fuel splashed onto the deck and came ablaze. Then: Clank. Clank. Two 1,000-pound bombs dropped from under the belly of McCain’s stubby A-4 . . . into the fire.”

McCain rolled out of his cockpit onto the deck and ran for his life, Dickinson writes.

“Just then, one of his bombs ‘cooked off,’ blowing a crater in the deck and incinerating the sailors who had rushed past McCain with hoses and fire extinguishers.”

But according to historian Mary Hershberger, writing on the liberal Truthdig.com site, McCain panicked.

“Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCain’s craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCain’s Skyhawk,” wrote Hershberger, who in 2005 published a biography, ”Jane Fonda’s War,” advertised as “an antidote to the ‘Hanoi Jane’ myth.”

“These sources . . . who spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identified,” Hershberger wrote, “agree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.”
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Aqua_lung said:
McCain?... oh the guy that allowed 133 sailors to perish.
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-000002974001&cpage=2
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From the same page another comment:
Robert October 12, 2008 9:54 AM
From Wikipedia: About 10:50 in the morning local time 19°9'5?N 107°23'5?E, while preparations for the second strike of the day were being made,[3] an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on a F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power. A drawing of the stern of Forrestal showing the spotting of aircraft at the time. Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. White's and McCain's aircraft are in the right hand circle. The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on a A-4 Skyhawk awaiting launch[3], either aircraft No. 405, piloted by LCDR Fred D. White[1], or No. 416, piloted by future U.S. Senator and Presidential candidate, LCDR John McCain.[4] The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of escaping JP-5 fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration. Other external fuel tanks overheated and ruptured, releasing more jet fuel to feed the flames which spread along the flight deck, leaving pilots in their aircraft with the options of being incinerated in their cockpits or running through the flames to escape. LCDR Fred D. White, waiting to launch in Aircraft No. 405, leaped out of his burning Skyhawk but was killed instantly (along with many firefighters) by the cooking off of the first bomb. LCDR Herbert A. Hope of VA-46 (and operations officer of CVW-17) jumped out of the cockpit of his Skyhawk between explosions, rolled off the flight deck and into the starboard man-overboard net. Making his way down below to the hangar deck, he took command of a firefighting team. "The port quarter of the flight deck where I was", he recalled, "is no longer there."[3] With his aircraft surrounded by flames, McCain escaped by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down the nose and jumping off the refueling probe. ******************* McCain did not start the fire. He did not "hide" while others fought the flames. This is a sleazy attack more worthy of of past Republican campaign tacticians. Obama does not need this type of "help". Drop it already.
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One does not hang around a burning plane that has already dropped 2 bombs on the deck. Who in this room would have done otherwise. What must the man have done? Got himself killed just because?
 
I think everyone should read the entire article and not just small extracts of it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
most important is :
About 10:50 in the morning local time 19°9′5″N 107°23′5″E / 19.15139, 107.38472, while preparations for the second strike of the day were being made,[3] an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on a F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power.


A drawing of the stern of Forrestal showing the spotting of aircraft at the time. Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. White's and McCain's aircraft are in the right hand circle.The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on a A-4 Skyhawk awaiting launch[3], either aircraft No. 405, piloted by LCDR Fred D. White[1], or No. 416, piloted by future U.S. Senator and Presidential candidate, LCDR John McCain.[4] The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of escaping JP-5 fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration. Other external fuel tanks overheated and ruptured, releasing more jet fuel to feed the flames which spread along the flight deck, leaving pilots in their aircraft with the options of being incinerated in their cockpits or running through the flames to escape. LCDR Fred D. White, waiting to launch in Aircraft No. 405, leaped out of his burning Skyhawk but was killed instantly (along with many firefighters) by the cooking off of the first bomb. LCDR Herbert A. Hope of VA-46 (and operations officer of CVW-17) jumped out of the cockpit of his Skyhawk between explosions, rolled off the flight deck and into the starboard man-overboard net. Making his way down below to the hangar deck, he took command of a firefighting team. "The port quarter of the flight deck where I was", he recalled, "is no longer there."[3] With his aircraft surrounded by flames, McCain escaped by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down the nose and jumping off the refueling probe
 
Any thoughts on these two videos? My opinion of Obama has gone south after them. Perhaps they are just propaganda from the independent voters? Who knows?
1
2
 
TELESPHORE said:
From the same page another comment:


One does not hang around a burning plane that has already dropped 2 bombs on the deck. Who in this room would have done otherwise. What must the man have done? Got himself killed just because?
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If you read the article I posted it has more to do with the media ignoring this story even after it appeared in rolling stone magazine where as the swift boat veterans campaign got a 24 hour news cycle basically putting an end to Kerry's campaign. The article is about the double standards at play and my comment was more satirical of the SBV smear.
 
Syndyre said:
I don't particularly like Obama but I think McCain might be worse, its hard to tell, no good options this year really. Anyone who believes the Obama "hope and change" message is stupid though, he's a politician like any other.

There are some people I wouldn't want supporting me:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/06/23/unpacking-obama-s-turnout-advantage.aspx
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At least they had done their time - here we let the criminals vote while they are still in prison, but not the people guarding them.
 
Phronesis said:
Why doesn't Obama just provide proof of citizenship like the rest? Why file a motion to dismiss the lawsuit? Or is Berg just whining because he is a Hillary supporter?

Either way, Obama is not doing his campaign any good by not supplying his proof of citizenship (among other things).
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Oh dear, this even features on Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

If Obama were actually ineligible, you don't think Hillary would have raised the issue in the primaries?
 
Claymore said:
Oh dear, this even features on Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
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Doesn't matter if it is true or not, Obama should just provide his birth certificate and all his other missing information like all the other candidates. The sooner the better for his part.
If Obama were actually ineligible, you don't think Hillary would have raised the issue in the primaries?
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Yes one would think so. But who do you think will be the democrat candidate if this charge sticks? I think Obama did a lot better than Hillary could have for the democrats.
 
Phronesis said:
Doesn't matter if it is true or not, Obama should just provide his birth certificate and all his other missing information like all the other candidates. The sooner the better for his part.

Yes one would think so. But who do you think will be the democrat candidate if this charge sticks? I think Obama did a lot better than Hillary could have for the democrats.
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I like how some people are clutching at straws to have Obama disqualified. If he was ineligible, the Republican Party and John McCain would've kicked up a big fuss already. Don'tyou guys think the FBI would vet anyone running for US president...not personal stuff but just to check that they qualify.

One of the reasons that the GOP and McCain won't touch this issue is because Berg is a nutcase who believes 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government.
 
What do you think the best course of action is when you are being charged to provide your birth certificate? Hand it over, or delay it? Why?
 
Now here's an interesting (but long) piece by an ex-muslim:

Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer

Video: Does Obama Have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

By Ali Sina

I must confess I was not impressed by Sen. Barack Obama from the first time I saw him. At first I was excited to see a black candidate. He looked youthful, spoke well, appeared to be confident – a wholesome presidential package. It is so instinctive for most people to want to see blacks succeed. It is as if all humanity is carrying a collective guilt for what the ancestors of blacks endured. However, despite my initial interest in him, I was put off soon, not just because of his shallowness but also because there was an air of haughtiness in his demeanor that was unsettling. His posture and his body language were louder than his empty words.

The Cult of Personality

Who is Obama?

What is Narcissism?

The Power of Manipulation

The Sick Symbiosis

... There is no insanity greater than electing a pathological narcissist as predident.

... read on here
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