Wierda Park Wireless Mesh

[d-_-b]

If i use pwp.net.za can i distribute internet to other nodes via a proxy server

fernandopires it's a community network so you can do anything over it, tcp/ip related. But because its a community network some folks will limit you on their equipment and even ban you if you try to make money of their equipment.

As for internet sharing I think it's at the moment illegal(but mercury water I call it) so if you want to do it you do it at your own risk(So try to setup a VPN or encrypted tunnel for your proxy server over the network).

Regards,

 

[fernandopires]

i will thanks for the advice

 

[Ricard]

Splitting costs for the line and then buying your own cap is not what id term as "selling internet" or in their case splitting costs for the line and the uncapped account. I think they call it sharing

Or....

Depriving Telkom the opportunity to sell 3 ADSL lines and ISP packages makes a case for "Competing against Telkom" .. and hence-forth it goes against the whole idea of "Community Network"

 

[acidrain]

Or....

Depriving Telkom the opportunity to sell 3 ADSL lines and ISP packages makes a case for "Competing against Telkom" .. and hence-forth it goes against the whole idea of "Community Network"

Depends if the participants were going to get an adsl line regardless.... if not its not exactly depriving telkom of anything... but then again you see things differently from what i see... a community is for sharing, sharing of what depends on the user. Lets say for instance a person downloads a movie and shares it to all other users. This is seen as the distribution of illegal content as the download was already illegal to begin with ( if not paid for ) so why condone this and not inet sharing?

 

[Ricard]

Depends if the participants were going to get an adsl line regardless.... if not its not exactly depriving telkom of anything... but then again you see things differently from what i see... a community is for sharing, sharing of what depends on the user. Lets say for instance a person downloads a movie and shares it to all other users. This is seen as the distribution of illegal content as the download was already illegal to begin with ( if not paid for ) so why condone this and not inet sharing?

Its not my call to say "The users might not get adsl" - but in the law, its considered an income loss for telkom... and telkom has the full rights to complain to ICASA, as a community Wireless group, competing with any company is not allowed.
Being a community WUG and 'sharing' spirit, it does not mean its exempt from the law.

At this current stage with the Wireless User groups in negotiation with ICASA, this will be HUGE spanner in the works if it comes to light that internet is being openly provisioned. THIS is my current concern.... as ONE wrong wug move and the entire ICASA negotiation is dead.... all thanks to someone who wanted to share their uncapped ADSL.

 

[acidrain]

...at this current stage with the Wireless User groups in negotiation with ICASA, this will be HUGE spanner in the works if it comes to light that internet is being openly provisioned. THIS is my current concern.... as ONE wrong wug move and the entire ICASA negotiation is dead.... all thanks to someone who wanted to share their uncapped ADSL.

While I can understand your valid concern, the problem I have is that when anyone brings up a question regarding "Internet sharing on a WUG" the poor guy gets flamed instead of rather saying "sorry we can not allow that sort of activity on our network".

Also if its such a problem then how come some wugs allow wisps to piggy-back on their network or the wug piggy-backing on the wisps to gain coverage? Do they check that the wisp has the required licenses and whether they are valid or not before allowing such activity cos im sure ICASA would not be impressed if a wug was involved ( in any way ) with an illegal wisp.

The truth remains that nothing, on any network, can be shared without breaking some sort of law ( besides lan gaming of course ) be it internet, music, movies, etc.

 

[Ricard]

While I can understand your valid concern, the problem I have is that when anyone brings up a question regarding "Internet sharing on a WUG" the poor guy gets flamed instead of rather saying "sorry we can not allow that sort of activity on our network".
.

Sharing internet on the Wug happens... but its an agreement between 2 people.

The reason I get annoyed is that there are genuine Wireless enthusiasts and then there are leeching Internet users. The people build the WUG networks, only for its performance be degraded by someone "who just joined for the intrawebs". If a node goes down.. whose responsibility is it?
I was involved with Video streaming experiment on a WUG.. and within 2 weeks there were more people wanting to join for the 'Free TV' - so I terminated the project.

Is this the motivator you want people to join the Community on? Free TV and internet? How do you feel shelling out R5000 for equipment only to find you neighbour getting internet through your stuff? I applaud the person willing to share his internet Free-for-all ... but pardon the analogy, but **** attracts flies... and before you know it, there are so many flies its out of control.

 

[acidrain]

Is this the motivator you want people to join the Community on? Free TV and internet? How do you feel shelling out R5000 for equipment only to find you neighbour getting internet through your stuff? I applaud the person willing to share his internet Free-for-all ... but pardon the analogy, but **** attracts flies... and before you know it, there are so many flies its out of control.

Im pretty much stumped and clueless on where to start so ill give it a try. Im an enthusiast aswell ( so much so im looking at studying in this field ) and no the motivator should def not be free tv or inet as the word community stands for a reason " I give, you give ". If they only want to join only for the "perks" of either cheap or free internet then they should be told to go subscribe with some form of (w)isp but if they willing to participate in sharing information, partaking in activities such as meetings and/or weekly gaming while at the same time receiving this added benefit ( either for free or at a split cost ) then they should be more than welcome. My equipment didnt come cheap either and if my neighbour was: using my internet, taking my files and not returning anything then he would soon see his connection lost but if he at least contributed to what i so gladly give him the option of while sharing whatever he might have then i would be more than happy to keep him on.

Somehow it doesnt sound right but im sure you get my point. As much as both you and I dispise these leechers, some of the guys on here asking for help when they want to openly share something get unfairly flamed when they should be given the chance to explain exactly what their intentions are regarding this delicate topic.

 

[Ryder_JHB]

My issue with our "friend" here is that he does not seem to want to stick to the rules and regulations, and will ultimately end up causing more noise/interference like most of the other wisps...

I quote from here: Calculating Output Power / Effective Isotropic Radiated Power

cool i want that 1W amp for R2000 exc vat

Now this is someone myself, and my fellow wuggers will not even consider assisting... We have a hard enough time as it is trying to get our links to work with all the noise out there. Then we get people like this! It is unecessary to use 200mW cards, or Amp's, and downright irresponsible too.

 

[Ricard]

some of the guys on here asking for help when they want to openly share something get unfairly flamed when they should be given the chance to explain exactly what their intentions are regarding this delicate topic.

but most want to put up 1watt amps and charge for their uncapped ADSL. I have been involved with WUG's for 4 years now... and every second day in the IRC there is some person asking "How can I share my ADSL line" .. then it moves to "My buddy got me capped, how can I limit him" .. "How do I traffic shape" .. ad nauseum..

Anyone with an internet line on the wug WILL start to ask these questions, and from there its a slippery slope and people will get p1ssed off - and all you gain are enemies. There are many ways to contribute ... the best way to contribute is TIME to help others.

the Internet link starts free..... then a few people say "Wow, we can double the capacity if we chip in a few hunderd bux a month.." before you know it, there are 10 people paying for the ADSL line. One afternoon mother nature decides to throw a tantrum and send a lightning bolt that toasts the highsite. Now.. what happens?
There are 10 people paying and ZERO internet. Who pays for the highsite? Do the 10 people carry on paying and get Nothing?

Its starts off humble... but you and I are not that short sighted... it WILL end up a mess.

 

[acidrain]

OK well i guess i didnt see he's post where he wanted the 1watt amp. In that case flame him all you want, i already have enough problems with the saturation of the 2.4 spectrum and have to constantly change channels. Found one tho that seems pretty empty so touch wood it stays that way.

With the people who share their internet and then get capped because of their friend, then the simple solution would be to tell the guy to make his friend buy his own cap and use pppoe rather. and with mother nature throwing a bolt which happens to fry a highsite, well we all know weather is a problem, joburg has lightning and we have wind. These people must just understand that while the inet is shared with them, they must not confuse it as being a service offered. If you dont like paying for it when chances are some days you wont have inet due to weather or hs problems, then dont bother joining because of it.

The people that come on and complain that hs's are either down, been removed or have been damaged should rather then go find an investor an run their own network and see how hard it really is.

Well i guess thats all i have to say on the topic. Thanks for the interesting discussion and hope there's no hard feelings over our different views.

 

[acidrain]

My issue with our "friend" here is that he does not seem to want to stick to the rules and regulations, and will ultimately end up causing more noise/interference like most of the other wisps...

I quote from here: Calculating Output Power / Effective Isotropic Radiated Power



Now this is someone myself, and my fellow wuggers will not even consider assisting... We have a hard enough time as it is trying to get our links to work with all the noise out there. Then we get people like this! It is unecessary to use 200mW cards, or Amp's, and downright irresponsible too.

I can't seem to agree with you more on that. Amps are disgustingly unnessasry. If you can't reach the point then meet it half way with another ap otherwise forget it.

Regarding the 200mW cards.. isnt the Atheros CM9 max out at 200mW? ( altho mine is only at 79mW since it offers best input/output )
I noticed scoop sell a mikrotik 300mw card but im happy with my cm9

 

[Ryder_JHB]

I can't seem to agree with you more on that. Amps are disgustingly unnessasry. If you can't reach the point then meet it half way with another ap otherwise forget it.

Regarding the 200mW cards.. isnt the Atheros CM9 max out at 200mW? ( altho mine is only at 79mW since it offers best input/output )
I noticed scoop sell a mikrotik 300mw card but im happy with my cm9

There are 400mW cards available too... I would not be surprised if there were higher powers out there somewhere also...

Being a part of Jawug, we have learned that "bigger" is not always better - and I (and my fellow wuggers) find it more challenging, and rewarding to setup a link, with the lowest power outputs, the least amount of cable, the smallest antenna available - it's more fun, tweaking every little iota of speed out of those settings, when using the lowest amount of power... (And hopefully in doing so, we are limiting the amount of noise that we are putting out there)

 

[fernandopires]

Sorry about this all, the idea of the mesh is down

 

[nOss]

Regarding the 200mW cards.. isnt the Atheros CM9 max out at 200mW? ( altho mine is only at 79mW since it offers best input/output )
I noticed scoop sell a mikrotik 300mw card but im happy with my cm9

CM9 max out at 100mW, scoop does sell the R52H cards, the purpose for these cards are not for point to multipoint links, but for point to point links over long distances. PLS read the suggested power outputs that wapa are asking of icasa for the different types of links.

 

[acidrain]

CM9 max out at 100mW, scoop does sell the R52H cards, the purpose for these cards are not for point to multipoint links, but for point to point links over long distances. PLS read the suggested power outputs that wapa are asking of icasa for the different types of links.

Strange, cos as far as i know 23dbm is almost 200mW and my card can easily handle this output unless if its one of those things where routeros shows thats its at 23dbm but actually only running at about 19

will have a look at the wapa recom's.

 

[Kloon]

Strange, cos as far as i know 23dbm is almost 200mW and my card can easily handle this output unless if its one of those things where routeros shows thats its at 23dbm but actually only running at about 19

will have a look at the wapa recom's.

If in ros you can set your power to 30dbi doest mean your card will live long. I dont know if you ever heard of the term overclock. Set your radio to 30dbi and well see how long it lasts.

 

[acidrain]

...Set your radio to 30dbi and well see how long it lasts.

Im well aware of my cards limitations so setting it to 30dbm will be very stupid.

 

[Kloon]

By default the cm9 operates at 18dbi, and that equals to 63mW. So unless you go and change the power settings yourself you are in limits.

 

[johankok]

Rhyder_JHB -- Do not do any such -- you would contravening a load of laws, starting with Telecommunications Regulatory, and a host of others.... There's a number of laws, but predominantly those under the administration of ICASA..... NOT allowed to redistribute Internet access without the appropriate licenses....

Librarian -- do like your bottom quotes...