WikiLeaks posts "Insurance" encrypted file to its website

[Palimino]

They won't leak it if they can see it will harm the country or individuals.

That makes sense. So the people (probably USA) causing Wikileaks to release their insurance are responsible for any resulting harm. Check mate.

 

[GingerBeer]

Wikileaks has 15000 documents in their posession
which they want to release. They've asked the US
government to help them review the files to ensure
nobody gets hurt.

 

[Creag]

The whole thing is a hoax.

Maybe, but they're getting everyone's attention. Even a daily insurance newsletter I get on email picked up on this story.

And if freedom of speech goes pear shape in SA, you can bet that this will be the first port of call for "sensitive" information "procured" by local journalists. The ANC mights still control local media and newsprint, but it sure as nuts ain't going to have the same clout on international websites like this one.

 

[grayston]

Maybe, but they're getting everyone's attention. Even a daily insurance newsletter I get on email picked up on this story.

And if freedom of speech goes pear shape in SA, you can bet that this will be the first port of call for "sensitive" information "procured" by local journalists. The ANC mights still control local media and newsprint, but it sure as nuts ain't going to have the same clout on international websites like this one.

Next up: ANC produces documents from neighbour's dog 'proving' wikileaks is a source of child porn....

 

[PeterCH]

Maybe, but they're getting everyone's attention. Even a daily insurance newsletter I get on email picked up on this story.

And if freedom of speech goes pear shape in SA, you can bet that this will be the first port of call for "sensitive" information "procured" by local journalists. The ANC mights still control local media and newsprint, but it sure as nuts ain't going to have the same clout on international websites like this one.

If Wikileaks publishes stolen or unauthorised US government information Wikileaks may be in trouble. Wikileaks after all resides somewhere - and the US may ask the government of that country to raid Wikileaks and recover that information - i.e. seize the harddrives etc and if encrypted request the decryption keys from those who encrypted the data, if they won't release the keys detain them indefinitely until they do. Definately most EU countries will detain you if you fail to reveal the password. This isn't about freedom of speech but about sensitive information which is classified. Any European govt would co-operate with the US to recover this info. Publishing another country's state secrets is not free speech.

 

[daveza]

It's hosted in Sweden amongst other places and they will not take kindly to any demand from the USA or any other country for that matter.

Wikileaks just may become a vital resource and outlet for our own country's media if they do start putting press restrictions in place.

 

[Palimino]

If Wikileaks publishes stolen or unauthorised US government information Wikileaks may be in trouble.

“Stolen”! “Unauthorized”! This is just semantics. By definition, any material from Wikileaks will be “stolen” or “unauthorized”. A senator cheating on his expense account is unlikely to “authorize” the broad banding of his picaddelos. Puhleeze!

Wikileaks after all resides somewhere...

Yeah, in cyberspace. The same place as a telephone conversation resides. In the wires (the middle FYI).

Definately most EU countries will detain you if you fail to reveal the password.

I would say that most EU countries would give America the finger if they indulged in whiney, self-interested requests.

This isn't about freedom of speech but about sensitive information which is classified.

You mean “sensitive” information like the ANC is trying to classify?

Publishing another country's state secrets is not free speech.

But airing their dirty laundry is. America is waaaay out of their league. Think of a clumsy but wealthy, powerful and enraged dinosaur with a bruised ego trying to swat a bothersome mosquito. Myriads of clock-watching security apparatchiks trying to apprehend a paranoid type with no fixed abode. He is motivated by idealism (not pension schemes) and has risked his life and his organization many times. He is not clueless about security and would not be the sole repository of encryption keys to his insurance (there is probably a pretty big Wikileaks organization in the shadows) each individual not motivated by pensions, not stupid and all of them security conscious. And with lots of external informal help and expertise.

“Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.”

Viva Wikileaks!

 

[GingerBeer]

If Wikileaks publishes stolen or unauthorised US government information Wikileaks may be in trouble. Wikileaks after all resides somewhere - and the US may ask the government of that country to raid Wikileaks and recover that information - i.e. seize the harddrives etc and if encrypted request the decryption keys from those who encrypted the data, if they won't release the keys detain them indefinitely until they do. Definately most EU countries will detain you if you fail to reveal the password. This isn't about freedom of speech but about sensitive information which is classified. Any European govt would co-operate with the US to recover this info. Publishing another country's state secrets is not free speech.

I watched an interview on C-SPAN where the
Pentagon rep kept saying "stolen". The press
were puzzled at this odd definition for copies
until you realise that it's just a form of blatant
propaganda for the masses.

 

[PeterCH]

I watched an interview on C-SPAN where the
Pentagon rep kept saying "stolen". The press
were puzzled at this odd definition for copies
until you realise that it's just a form of blatant
propaganda for the masses.

It's semantics but the documents are unauthorised to be released outside the military. There's a reason for that. It's also illegal. So sooner or later, if Wikileaks is not a covert CIA operation to flush out whistleblowers and make the disappear in secret, they will take care of those who break US law.

 

[daveza]

So sooner or later, if Wikileaks is not a covert CIA operation to flush out whistleblowers and make the disappear in secret, they will take care of those who break US law.

Who would be those who leak the documents to Wikileaks, not Wikileaks themselves who do not fall under any US jurisdiction.

 

[PeterCH]

Who would be those who leak the documents to Wikileaks, not Wikileaks themselves who do not fall under any US jurisdiction.

Wikileaks would be culpable. They would be assisting in the dissemination of classified information. Each government on earth has classified information and I think that's a good thing as long as it's not abused. If there is abuse that should be flushed out by the courts and protests - the judiciary and legislative branches of the government together with the constitution and the voice of the populance - lobbying, protests, referendums, etc should force inquiries if there is suspicion that something is not kosher. Releasing military information is otherwise against the law and the US should go after these guys with the aid of the governments where these sites are hosted. The Swedish government also has documents it deems classified, it would do the same thing.

 

[PeterCH]

“Stolen”! “Unauthorized”! This is just semantics. By definition, any material from Wikileaks will be “stolen” or “unauthorized”. A senator cheating on his expense account is unlikely to “authorize” the broad banding of his picaddelos. Puhleeze!

Believe it or not but some stuff needs to remain a secret. For example the security procedures at nuclear silos and details of the latest weaponry used by NATO. Field operations, tactics, chains of command, etc likewise.

A senator's details will not be classified. They may be secret to him and his party but are not national security type secrets. That's the difference I'm driving at. If you don't see the difference here you don't live in a real world.

Yeah, in cyberspace. The same place as a telephone conversation resides. In the wires (the middle FYI).

It hosts its servers in some countries. The governments of those countries can be pressured to shut them down.

I would say that most EU countries would give America the finger if they indulged in whiney, self-interested requests.

Most EU countries do not have the same level of freedom that Americans enjoy. For example TRUTH is not a defense in the UK but it is in America (involving trials involving slander).
Read up about the differences, America is still the most free country on earth. In the UK they can detain you indefinitely if you don't release the password of an encrypted file, in the US you can plead the x (forgot which one) Amendment and they can do nothing.

As for governments, they all have state secrets and the governments of European countries say one thing publicly but do other things in background. They wall prefer good ties to USA instead of Russia, China, etc. Look at even Japan, the new government there promised to give America the finger but so far in reality they continue to kiss a-- because face it, the realities are that America is a better friend than an enemy because their current enemies are far worse.

You mean “sensitive” information like the ANC is trying to classify?

Not everything is national security.

But airing their dirty laundry is. America is waaaay out of their league. Think of a clumsy but wealthy, powerful and enraged dinosaur with a bruised ego trying to swat a bothersome mosquito. Myriads of clock-watching security apparatchiks trying to apprehend a paranoid type with no fixed abode. He is motivated by idealism (not pension schemes) and has risked his life and his organization many times. He is not clueless about security and would not be the sole repository of encryption keys to his insurance (there is probably a pretty big Wikileaks organization in the shadows) each individual not motivated by pensions, not stupid and all of them security conscious. And with lots of external informal help and expertise.

???




Viva Wikileaks![/QUOTE]

 

[Palimino]

If there is abuse that should be flushed out by the courts...

Who decides ‘abuse’? I think there is abuse. You obviously don’t. I would imagine that in America, the American military have more influence with American courts than Wikileaks. If they deem Wikileak’s revelations ‘abuse’ and a threat to national security, the courts won’t argue. Why am I totally unastounded and unsurprised?

 

[Palimino]

Believe it or not but some stuff needs to remain a secret. For example the security procedures at nuclear silos and details of the latest weaponry used by NATO. Field operations, tactics, chains of command, etc likewise.

That stuff is not revealed and an employee revealing it would be charged with treason (if he reveals it – unlikely unless he was a full-blown spy) and, in any event given the option, Wikileaks wouldn’t reveal it either. They are concerned with (and concentrate on) administration scumbaggery and abuse.

A senator's details will not be classified

They will if he can get them classified as ‘National Security’ or if there are secret Masonic handshakes or old boy Elk Lodge membership in common or something similar.

The governments of those countries can be pressured to shut them down.

You fondly believe in America’s ability to ‘pressure’ everyone. If a country was vulnerable to US (or any) pressure, do you really think that Wikileaks would locate its servers there in 1000 years?

Most EU countries do not have the same level of freedom that Americans enjoy.

This is really hard to believe (even for me) but I have heard that SA enjoys greater press freedom than the USA.

“Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.”

??? = a taunt by the (extremely good but irritating) American boxer ‘Muhammad Ali’ (Cassius Clay).

 

[daveza]

Pentagon urges WikiLeaks to 'do the right thing'

http://www.ioltechnology.co.za/article_page.php?iArticleId=5591473

Washington – The Pentagon has urged whistleblower website WikiLeaks to "do the right thing," and return thousands of leaked US military documents and stop any future public releases.

Pentagon spokesperson Geoff Morrell said the Defence Department demands that WikiLeaks give the US government all versions of documents "obtained directly or indirectly" from Pentagon databases or records.

Morrell said there was other information in WikiLeaks' possession that "has not been pushed into the public domain yet that we hope this message will help convince them not to publish."

About 70 000 classified documents on Afghanistan were published by WikiLeaks in late July. The files contained a string of damaging claims, including allegations that Pakistani spies met directly with the Taliban and that deaths of innocent civilians at the hands of international forces were covered up.

The documents also included the names of some Afghan informants, prompting claims that the leaks have endangered lives.

The website's disclosure "of a large number of our documents has already threatened the safety of our troops, our allies and Afghan citizens who are working with us to help bring about peace and stability in that part of the world," Morrell said.

"The only acceptable course is for WikiLeaks to take steps immediately to return all versions of all of these documents to the US government and permanently delete them from its website, computers and records," he said.

Morrell cautioned that any additional public disclosure of classified information "can only make the damage worse," adding that the Pentagon hoped WikiLeaks would heed its warning, but did not "have a high degree of confidence" that it would.

"If doing the right thing is not good enough for them, then we will figure out what other alternatives we have to compel them to do the right thing... Let me leave it at that," Morrell told reporters, without elaborating on what pressure could be brought to bear.

Well tough titty Morrell.

Demanding is not the way to go nor are implied threats.

And if these documents came ' directly ' from the Pentagon then perhaps you should do some work on your security.

Wikileaks are ' doing the right thing ' - we need more like them.

 

[Alan]

They released 90 000 pages of documents that brought up nothing except aid to the Taliban so how damning could this insurance be.

Wikileaks are ' doing the right thing ' - we need more like them.

Why am I not surprised you support aiding the Taliban:erm:

 

[Palimino]

Why am I not surprised you support aiding the Taliban:erm:

No, Wikileaks is not spelt T a l i b a n.

 

[d7e7r7]

So has anyone here downloaded this insurance file - https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/WikiLeaks_insurance ???

 

[za1]

well i cant get on www.wikileaks.org, have they been taken down or is there an alternative address?

 

[d7e7r7]

well i cant get on www.wikileaks.org, have they been taken down or is there an alternative address?

http://twitter.com/#!/wikileaks

We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack.

but...

El Pais, Le Monde, Speigel, Guardian & NYT will publish many US embassy cables tonight, even if WikiLeaks goes down