Rikus
Banned
Perhaps.
But not for personal gain.
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Will this Farmer also get away with murder?
- Thread starter sox63
- Start date
But not for personal gain.
It is not senseless.
1. He scared the baboons away.
2. He saved this man from dying at the hands of wild baboons who can easily kill a man.
3. He killed someone who was trespassing on his property with dumb luck. Possibly saving his life from dying at the hands of a brutal criminal.
Really, what the hell was that man doing running wild with baboons and other animals, known to be shot at?
It is like wearing a Nazi uniform on Britain soil during the 2nd world war. People will be shooting at you and in your general direction. It is to be expected that if you get shot, it is your own fault.
The legal system should allow the castle doctrine approach, sentences does not effectively deter criminals anymore.
The good people in this country, who outnumber the criminals, should all be armed and trained to kill trespassing criminals, before there is an opportunity for them to hurt the innocent.
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VanZan
Senior Member
Throwing small stone in bush (very softly as to hurt no one).
Shall take sides with baboons as no one seems care about their perspective.
I think that one should not get confused with legal arguments and moral issues as these are often mutually exclusive.
The information available is insufficient to reach any conclusion as to his guilt on being a murderer (planning to kill or intent to kill) or being irresponsible (shooting without knowing or trying to determine where the bullet is going to travel or stop regardless of the calibre or weapon configuration)
Sincere apologies if the very small stone touched anyone as I did not know who was in the bush
Shall take sides with baboons as no one seems care about their perspective.
- I think I saw somewhere that it was a game farm. What would be the problem with baboons that needs scaring away?
- If humans (black or white) did not interfere in the areas that baboons need for survival and destroy their food sources etc, baboons prefer not to interfere with humans. Possible due to being animalists (different form of racists)?
- I suspect that baboons would take exception to being associated with humans on either side of the border. They are highly intellegent, have a complex social structure and no crime!!??
- All primates including baboons are listed as protected under the CITES agreements of which SA is a signatory. Therefore it is supposed to be illegal to kill a baboon unless it is a clear threat, or you have the required permits etc. Unfortunately like most other responsibilities (exept taxes) it is poorly enforced and usually ignored
- As to being a dangerous animal, what do you pp classify homo sapiens as since the ratio of baboons killing pp vs pp killing baboons is probable more than 1: 100k. Not to mention killing members of its own species.
I think that one should not get confused with legal arguments and moral issues as these are often mutually exclusive.
The information available is insufficient to reach any conclusion as to his guilt on being a murderer (planning to kill or intent to kill) or being irresponsible (shooting without knowing or trying to determine where the bullet is going to travel or stop regardless of the calibre or weapon configuration)
Sincere apologies if the very small stone touched anyone as I did not know who was in the bush
Geriatrix
Executive Member
Actually, they rape, murder and steal as well. Most primates do.
Rikus
Banned
1--Your source?Throwing small stone in bush (very softly as to hurt no one).
Shall take sides with baboons as no one seems care about their perspective.
- 1I think I saw somewhere that it was a game farm. What would be the problem with baboons that needs scaring away?
- 2If humans (black or white) did not interfere in the areas that baboons need for survival and destroy their food sources etc, baboons prefer not to interfere with humans. Possible due to being animalists (different form of racists)?
- I suspect that baboons would take exception to being associated with humans on either side of the border. They are highly intellegent, have a complex social structure and no crime!!??
- 3All primates including baboons are listed as protected under the CITES agreements of which SA is a signatory. Therefore it is supposed to be illegal to kill a baboon unless it is a clear threat, or you have the required permits etc. Unfortunately like most other responsibilities (exept taxes) it is poorly enforced and usually ignored
- As to being a dangerous animal, what do you pp classify homo sapiens as since 4the ratio of baboons killing pp vs pp killing baboons is probable more than 1: 100k. Not to mention killing members of its own species.
I think that one should not get confused with legal arguments and moral issues as these are often mutually exclusive.
The information available is insufficient to reach any conclusion as to his guilt on being a murderer (planning to kill or intent to kill) or being irresponsible (shooting without knowing or trying to determine where the bullet is going to travel or stop regardless of the calibre or weapon configuration)
Sincere apologies if the very small stone touched anyone as I did not know who was in the bush
2--Untrue.They are curious by nature and very clever in making plans to get free food.They know there are all sorts of nice treats where humans are.
3--A link to that info please?
4--Again, a link please!
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BandwidthAddict
Expert Member
- Joined
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Good news, he didn't. 20 years!http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,9294,2-7-1442_2093264,00.html
He will probably get off with a slap on the wrist!
VanZan
Senior Member
If taken literally - I am unaware of any law on the books that actually makes it a crime if a primate should rape, murder or steal. AFAIK the law only applies to humans.
If taken in context:
Crime is not limited to these acts of transgression, but for the sake of your argument consider the following:
If a primate "steals" it is usually food as they have no concept of personal wealth and enrichment and only as much as they can eat in one day. If it is something else, it is done on the spur of the moment and discarded after the curiousity and interest has been satisfied.
Although it has been recorded that some primate species "murder" it happens under very specific circumstances (eliminating previous alpha male offspring to ensure survival of own "stronger" blood line) or so infrequently that it is considered a rare occurance. I don't think that murder is a rare occurance in SA society. Although primates are also killed during group confrontations, this equates to a war, and in this case no single primate can kill a multitude (pick the number) of other primates by pushing a button or pulling a trigger without even seeing the opposition.
Although "rape" does occur frequently in certain species, it happens in a specific context and the same male that "rapes" the females will sacrifice his life to protect them from predators. Not my understanding of the general profile of human rapists.
Crime is a disease of civilisation not of nature
Rikus
Banned
Me next?
VanZan
Senior Member
1 - See reply 16 of this thread and follow link.
2 - Your opinion as to the truth. Agree with being curious, but their food is free and enough where humans have not destroyed their environment. And if they are not fed by humans, they do not associate "nice treats" with humans and do not go and look for more. Why do you think the sign says "Do not feed the monkeys!!!!!"?
3 - http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml
4 - Don't have a link, just some logical deduction, some google and historical distribution info. Please follow the logic:
I found no report of a baboon that killed a human in SA in the last year (nor in the last 10 years but I don't know how good google is with older info) but I know of various "hunting activies" that include baboons. I also know of medical research on baboons (current and being planned) where these animals (wild caught) die in captivity. I am also aware of the rehab on baboon infants whose mothers were killed by humans. Humans are considered as the primary predator of baboons ( do google) Lastly, it is a matter of public record that baboons were common on most of the ridges in Gauteng many years ago. Something had to kill them as there are only one viable natural population TMK. The maths is simple => the ratio 0:any number is larger than 1:100k.
But the point is not the number - it's the concept.
VanZan
Senior Member
Yip
Rikus
Banned
1--Will give to you.(correct)
2--You admit curiosity.That is how they know humans=treats.(wrong)
3--You did not read it all"PRIMATES spp. (Except the species included in Appendix I)".(wrong)
4--"Don't have a link," Then its considered BS.(wrong)
That makes it 1/4 = 25%
Sorry, the pass rate is 75%
No more bandwidth for you.
Come back one year.
Rikus
Banned
VanZan
Senior Member
1--Will give to you.(correct)
2--You admit curiosity.That is how they know humans=treats.(wrong)
3--You did not read it all"PRIMATES spp. (Except the species included in Appendix I)".(wrong)
4--"Don't have a link," Then its considered BS.(wrong)
That makes it 1/4 = 25%
Sorry, the pass rate is 75%
No more bandwidth for you.
Come back one year.
1 - Thanks
2 - Animal Curiosity ≠ Human Curiosity
and
Animal Curiosity ≠ Knowledge
Most mammals (especially young ones) are curious, regardless of
intelligence and this definitely does not imply knowledge as this is usually
the reason why they get into trouble.
You are wrong
3 - I suggest you read the reference yourself as Appendix I is the more severely threatened species and more protected. The point was not in which Appendix primates are listed but that they are listed as protected species. See 2 red note
4 - My understanding of this forum was that a logical argument was as acceptable as evidence and that there are more information than a link on the internet.
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=71440
I believe my logic and maths are sound. What do you consider as BS?
No record of a baboon killing a human in SA? Can you provide a link to the contrary?
Humans hunting baboons - please read some of the posts in this tread? No research on baboons in SA. Do some searching on edu.za sites. I don't enjoy looking for such information for personal reasons. I would be quite happy to remove this reference within my logic. It does not change the result.
No rehabilitation being done on infant baboons of which the mothers are killed by humans.
http://www.ippl.org/care-baboons.htm and
http://www.primatecare.org.za/
See 2 red note if you can't find the link to the contrary.
Can a moderator please examine this and give Rikus his marks? And decide as to his pass rate given his status in the forum and then his reward?
