-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: What's the most interesting small town you've visited in South Africa?
Windows 8 upgrade version conundrum
- Thread starter jes
- Start date
Are you the guy I'm always correcting? Stop this crap now.
- MS don't 'audit' random consumers
- Anyone could claim they lost their Win 7 license. If Windows 8 is fully authenticated, and it will be for anyone who upgraded straight from MS, you're legit. End of story. If you're really paranoid you can make a Win 8 DVD, deactivate, secure erase the hard drive and then restore Windows 8.
- Changing motherboards does not mean you lose your copy of Windows 8, whether you're using a system builder or upgrade
zamicro
Expert Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,823
- Reaction score
- 5
I suggest that you read the license agreement before just accepting it.
I did. The old version of Windows you upgrade from becomes unusable because Windows 8 replaces the license entirely (I think 7 Pro and Vista Pro can be rolled back to). If you purchase ANY copy of Windows you may have it running on any one computer of yours. The exception is Win 8 that comes preinstalled on a new computer, which is a reasonable limitation that wasn't the topic of the previous discussion.
Abe
Expert Member
You are 'correcting' me with incorrect information.
MS might not audit random computers but the guy mentioned telling his clients to do this and they could well be audited. A disgruntled employee is all that is needed to trigger an audit. To make matters worse, they could get blocked in the future by an WGA update.
I don't know what to say any more. Please read the license agreements before you post. Firstly you are prohibited from going back to your old version once you upgrade. Secondly, There are now 2 types of MS licenses. OEM System Builder and OEM/DSP. Upgrades can only be applied to OEM/DSP/Retail versions. The first kind (System builder) is not tied to your motherboard. It's a license that system builders used to setup machines for clients int he past and it now includes a personal use clause. The second kind (OEM/DSP) are tied to your motherboard and replacing the motherboard is a new computer in MS eyes and requires that you purchase a new license. The retail license of old is gone (which also allowed the replacement of a motherboard) so the only option people now have is to use the system builder license if they want to upgrade their motherboard without paying.
There is a nice summary here:
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=14852670
Considering that that is guaranteed to end up unintentionally locking out millions of users, no matter how carefully they think they've crafted it to only target 'non-legitimate' upgraders Microsoft would have to be crazy to risk the PR nightmare. It would additionally be idiotic because they now have customers who would probably continue to buy upgrades in the future, except Microsoft has decided to tell them to **ck off and get back to using cracked copies. Plus a class action lawsuit is a given, which will cost Microsoft a fortune in legal fees and when they lose they'd have to refund all the license fees. They'd get **cked from every angle and deservedly so.
Conack
Expert Member
Cases with their old XP stickers on them get chucked all the time / stand around in old stock rooms - so it'll be pretty easy to do this "legitimately" for most.
Still I reckon as Noxibox said there, it'll be a fiasco for Microsoft to backpedal after their own software / upgrade system said that the user's System qualified for an upgrade and he concluded with payment.
Still I reckon as Noxibox said there, it'll be a fiasco for Microsoft to backpedal after their own software / upgrade system said that the user's System qualified for an upgrade and he concluded with payment.
Conack
Expert Member
Derp.
End of the $14.99 line... Good thing I got it while the getting was good.
http://asia.cnet.com/microsoft-closes-windows-8-upgrade-offer-loophole-62219290.htm
End of the $14.99 line... Good thing I got it while the getting was good.
http://asia.cnet.com/microsoft-closes-windows-8-upgrade-offer-loophole-62219290.htm
Abe
Expert Member
Someone spoke to Microsoft:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1114221-question-about-windows-8-upgrade-license/
"Thank you for contacting Microsoft Windows 8 Upgrade. We're glad to hear that you're interested in Windows 8 Pro.
The license for the $14.99 Windows 8 Pro Upgrade (for new Windows 7 PC purchased between June 2, 2012 and January 31, 2013) and $39.99 Windows 8 Pro Upgrade (for older PCs running older Windows versions) are non-transferable."
Non-transferable means that it is tied to a motherboard.
They have already closed one of the loopholes.
http://www.thinkdigit.com/Mobiles-PDAs/Microsoft-fixes-Windows-8-Rs-699-upgrade_11207.html
Abe
Expert Member
Yes, I agree. They are unlikely to hammer home users on this and a lot of people have spare XP licenses lying around but they could well take businesses to task. Also, the motherboard upgrade thing will require an activation and it's likely that they will block those.
It's also the case that many people who bought Windows 7 bought the upgrade even though they had no previous Windows license, so is Microsoft going to ask for their licenses going all the way back to NT 3.1 to prove all those upgrades since?
Microsoft have hopefully come to realise that it's not $40 (or $15) instead of a $100/$160, but $40 (or $15) instead of no Dollars. The same applied to those who bought Windows 7 upgrades. Perhaps there are some examples of Microsoft removing their activation or suing businesses? If not, why start now?
From the Windows 8 Pro Upgrade license:
They could only, maybe, go after a business that has no XP licenses, but the upgrade license doesn't state you're required to retain proof of an earlier version once you've upgraded. The upgrade license even states that the upgrade replaces your previous version. So hey, sorry, that XP machine has been tossed into the scrap heap and we've transferred the license to another computer we own as per the terms of the license agreement. Feel free to go check out the city dump if you want to see our XP sticker.
Microsoft have hopefully come to realise that it's not $40 (or $15) instead of a $100/$160, but $40 (or $15) instead of no Dollars. The same applied to those who bought Windows 7 upgrades. Perhaps there are some examples of Microsoft removing their activation or suing businesses? If not, why start now?
Who at Microsoft, because it's clear a lot of their people also haven't read the actual license? It makes it quite clear that neither version is tied to the motherboard. Only when it comes with a computer from an OEM is it locked to the motherboard because that's a different license.
From the Windows 8 Pro Upgrade license:
How will they block it? Was this common with Windows 7 upgrades?
They could only, maybe, go after a business that has no XP licenses, but the upgrade license doesn't state you're required to retain proof of an earlier version once you've upgraded. The upgrade license even states that the upgrade replaces your previous version. So hey, sorry, that XP machine has been tossed into the scrap heap and we've transferred the license to another computer we own as per the terms of the license agreement. Feel free to go check out the city dump if you want to see our XP sticker.
Abe
Expert Member
You are quoting the system builder license:
http://personaluselicense.windows.com/en-US/default.aspx
If you think my info is incorrect, then keep Googling until it seems right to you.
Regular consumers don't have to care about 'audits'. And if you're running a legit version of Windows 8, which all the people who upgraded from MS are, then you don't have to worry about anything. Even if MS knocked on your door and checked out your fully legit and activated Windows 8, and for some retarded reason demanded a Windows 7 license, you could tell them to f*** off because you threw it away. It's not relevant anymore.
You can roll back to either Windows 7 Professional or Windows Vista Business btw.
You're making this far more confusing than it is, and as a result have confounded yourself.
Here's a simple breakdown of transfer rights for each version:
1. Expensive purchase that can be installed all by itself - you can run it on any one PC of your choice
2. Included with new hardware - stuck there forever
3. Upgrade from Windows 7 - you can deactivate and install on another PC that qualifies for the upgrade as many times as you want
That spokesperson was wrong. The only Windows 8 that can't be moved is one that was preinstalled on new hardware.
Assuming this part is correct, the new target PC would only qualify for upgrade by having another existing XP/Vista/7 install on it.
Yes, that is implied. Or you could just get a cracked Win 7 Ultimate with the Daz loader and upgrade that.
Abe
Expert Member
The have done it in the past with WGA. Regardless. I am not arguing about enforceability. They may do nothing or they may get hard arsed. What I was arguing is this. You may as well just use a pirate copy of you jimmy the upgrade because in that situation, you are not really licensed. Someone digging into the matter would find you out. Nothing more. People are welcome to do what they want. I was just raising the risks of doing it.
Well, I am sure nothing will come from this. Microsoft never came out hitting those who lied and upgraded. They had no measures in place to verify licenses.
There is no way they can now determine who had ligitimate licenses and who did not. Their own software allowed for clean installs on formatted drives. So, it is safe to say there will be no updates as well that will cut users off.
Their own systems could nor detect pirated win 7 operating systems that was properly worked, so they will never catch any decent pirate in any event.
I think they are going to put this behind them and look forward to distributing Win 8 on new systems and forget about the 4 to 8 million people who lied.
There is no way they can now determine who had ligitimate licenses and who did not. Their own software allowed for clean installs on formatted drives. So, it is safe to say there will be no updates as well that will cut users off.
Their own systems could nor detect pirated win 7 operating systems that was properly worked, so they will never catch any decent pirate in any event.
I think they are going to put this behind them and look forward to distributing Win 8 on new systems and forget about the 4 to 8 million people who lied.
There is nothing MS can do about people who lied in the promotion. How you can equate having a fully activated version of Windows that was upgraded on pirated software (and now no longer has any remnant of the prior system) to running a pirated copy I will never understand. In one instance you could pass any security check thrown your way and in the other you couldn't. As I said previously, no one has any obligation to have old product keys lying around, nor can anyone suddenly demand them.
Then you should have no trouble citing an example of these lockouts because buying upgrade versions when having no prior legal OS has been going on for years with multiple versions of Windows. There are numerous web sites describing how to do it with Windows 7, so there must also be some prominent articles about all the users Microsoft cut off or sued. Therefore I am confident you can find some for us.
There is no digging Microsoft can do. They do not require you to keep your previous OS or proof of ownership thereof. Just the opposite they make a point of saying it has been superseded and is now worthless.
They've benefited, so they have no reason to do anything about it.
No, I am quoting directly out of Microsoft's Windows 8 Pro Upgrade license document, and I've compared it to the license presented when installing. I'd suggest that instead of quoting license information from other web sites you give consideration to reading Microsoft's license document.
No-one should be taken in by your FUD regarding the validity of an activated upgrade or being able to transfer the software.
Exactly.
Technically yes, but once the upgrade is installed and activated it replaces your previous software and its license. The new OS becomes de facto valid and legal. Microsoft makes no provision for being able to query your eligibility later.
You're also allowed to transfer the upgrade to new hardware, so there is not even a requirement that it be on whatever ancient piece of hardware was running XP.