Wiring distributuion box

Swa

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So our BD finally gave in. My question is how is the wiring supposed to connect? The geyser doesn't have an earth so is that also supposed to connect to the earth leakage or to the mains? And what about the stove and lights? I also suppose the busbar (sp?) should connect to the main switch so the neutral disconnects with it? And does it matter which way the power connects? Most conduits come from the top so it just makes sense to me to connect them to the top of the breakers.

Is there an easy way to just install the innards of the new DB without having to break out the old casing?
 
Sorry, I know this isn't an answer to your question, but just food for thought

I'd recommend getting in a qualified electrician, and someone who can coc it all. Personally I don't touch that stuff, and for one reason, if house burns down, insurance can't blame me and refuse to pay
 
Honestly your questions make me a tad uncomfortable, while I encourage people to DIY, I also think safety comes first, I really do think you need someone who is more knowledgeable to help.
 
Get a sparky. Everything needs to be on a E/L some people take the lights of the E/L as they did a stuff up when installing the lights and now the E/L trips all the time. The way a breaker is designed to work with overload and short circuit you have to feed at the top and connect the load at the bottom, there are some breakers that can be wired any way but lets not get into it for now, usually on the breakers they indicate supply and load. As per your old DB, there are some nice PVC surface mount that just fix over the old DB and wire all the new equipment in the new DB.
 
You're right it's not the answer I want. Either I do it and it's correct or it stays like it is. The way it is now is way worse and outright illegal with wires going directly from the incoming supply. I asked the questions on how it's supposed to be wired which is easy for someone who knows to answer so please if you don't know then don't comment. And why would my questions make you uncomfortable?
 
You're right it's not the answer I want. Either I do it and it's correct or it stays like it is. The way it is now is way worse and outright illegal with wires going directly from the incoming supply. I asked the questions on how it's supposed to be wired which is easy for someone who knows to answer so please if you don't know then don't comment. And why would my questions make you uncomfortable?

Because giving you information that you think qualifies you to do work that can kill you and your family, sort of makes the person providing that information guilty.
 
Get a sparky. Everything needs to be on a E/L some people take the lights of the E/L as they did a stuff up when installing the lights and now the E/L trips all the time. The way a breaker is designed to work with overload and short circuit you have to feed at the top and connect the load at the bottom, there are some breakers that can be wired any way but lets not get into it for now, usually on the breakers they indicate supply and load. As per your old DB, there are some nice PVC surface mount that just fix over the old DB and wire all the new equipment in the new DB.
That is basically what I thought. So are the ones indicating feed at the bottom and load at the top just a circuit diagram and not a physical one? I also don't understand how the E/L is supposed to work as I can't see any earth wires go in or out of it.

The reason I don't want to install a surface mount is because there's a cabinet going over it that can't be moved elsewhere.
 
Because giving you information that you think qualifies you to do work that can kill you and your family, sort of makes the person providing that information guilty.
Kinda ironic coming from the people on this forum who continually sympathise with the rights of squatters, and we all know how those connections look. ;)
 
A Sparky could do it all in a day. R500. Not worth the trouble in my opinion
 
A Sparky could do it all in a day. R500. Not worth the trouble in my opinion
The biggest problem isn't the wiring but putting in a new box and feed wire. Putting in a new box is probably not the difficult part but how would I get the old one out?
 
Current flow is IN at the top, OUT at the bottom. The real name for a E/L is actually a "residual current device" what it does is compares the Live wire to the Neutral wire, any imbalance and it trips. Well if you don't want to make use of a surface mount then get a new chassis bent up, fit either DIN or Samite rail for the breakers and have a cover made and paint it OR chisel and hammer and remove the complete old DB and put in a new one.
 
Current flow is IN at the top, OUT at the bottom. The real name for a E/L is actually a "residual current device" what it does is compares the Live wire to the Neutral wire, any imbalance and it trips. Well if you don't want to make use of a surface mount then get a new chassis bent up, fit either DIN or Samite rail for the breakers and have a cover made and paint it OR chisel and hammer and remove the complete old DB and put in a new one.
So it doesn't actually connect to the earth at all?

Bolded part would be the most hassle and there's also conduits coming in and screwed to the box. Is it possible to buy the rail and busbar separately or will I need to salvage them from a box?
 
The real name for a E/L is actually a "residual current device"
It has different names depending on the territory. None are correct or incorrect. It all depends on the local legislation and what it is referred to in that.

SA = Earth Leakage
USA = GFCI (Ground fault circuit interrupter)
UK = RCD

In South Africa the legislation calls it a earth leakage.
 
The standards are constantly changing but generally today, everything must be on an earth leakage and everything should have a ground wire.

Your geyser should have a ground wire for sure and in new installations it must be on a earth leakage.
Additionally the copper piping on the geyser must be bonded (meaning earth wire is connected to it).

Your installation ideally should be:
Main switch -> Earth Leakage 1, Earth Leakage 2, ...

Earth Leakage 1 -> Geyser + Stove + Oven
Earth Leakage 2 -> Plugs + Lights

If you have 3 phase, things get different.

You can even put every circuit on a separate earth leakage.

In the UK they have started selling a combined earth leakage and circuit breaker that only takes a single space in a DB. Very cool because it allows every single circuit to be on an earth leakage.

The reason it is better is that an earth leakage will trip on any leakage of current (well more than 30mA). So you can get into a situation known as nuisance trips. The fewer earth leakages you have the higher the chance of a nuisance trip, and the more annoying it is (eg. single earth leakage means your entire house is without power)

EDIT:
Also earth leakage and earth wires don't have much in common despite the name.
The earth leakage measures power flowing between live and neutral and trips if they aren't balanced.

Earth wires allow a safe and low resistance path for current to flow in the event that a conductive material comes in contact with live.

The earth wire allows the current to flow from the live to earth thereby causing a earth leakage to trip, but in and of itself, it doesn't actually play a role in how an earth leakage works.

Also your lack of knowledge is so bad that you'll screw this up. I'm not going to withhold knowledge but I'm just telling you. You'll f#@k this up. Either hire someone or else download the SANS documents and study them in detail. I did the latter myself.
 
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Your geyser should have a ground wire for sure and in new installations it must be on a earth leakage.
Additionally the copper piping on the geyser must be bonded (meaning earth wire is connected to it).
It may or may not have one. Honestly it's impossible for me to tell anything through the current mess until I take it apart.

Your installation ideally should be:
Main switch -> Earth Leakage 1, Earth Leakage 2, ...

Earth Leakage 1 -> Geyser + Stove + Oven
Earth Leakage 2 -> Plugs + Lights
Space is a problem though but I understand your point. Will see if I can fit 2 in. Although we've never had any nuisance trips but I don't know what exactly is connected to it.

In the UK they have started selling a combined earth leakage and circuit breaker that only takes a single space in a DB. Very cool because it allows every single circuit to be on an earth leakage.
I think I saw those. Called an earth leakage with overload protection, unless this is something different.

One positive in this is that they installed those new boxes in the street so I can just switch off there when working on the feed.
 
Maybe you must place some pics here and we can then comment better.
You do earth your geyser and do it on it's body. There is place for it.
My db board got small breakers. I once wired a db that rusted away. I remove it, put some novelon on the wall, glue the plastic box on there, and today, still looks brand new. Some old earth leaks did use a earth wire to sense. Remember those pics.
 
20170824(000000).jpg

It is quite small but I do think it can qualify as 12-way by today's standard. The black thing in the lower left corner where the neutral wires connect is the one that gets red hot.
 
View attachment 457987

It is quite small but I do think it can qualify as 12-way by today's standard. The black thing in the lower left corner where the neutral wires connect is the one that gets red hot.

Ek kannie glo wat ek sien nie, that is seriously a mess and connected in SO many wrong ways.

Yes it is easy to connect correctly and you can use breakers any way arround, but to make it possible for the next guy to work on, keep it to a standard, all ontop or bottom.

There is a reason why they always do it as IN ontop and OUT at the bottom.

The biggest problem I can see, we can give you the correct way of doing it, and some of us are qualified to-do the work, but it is SOOO difficult to explain with "short text messages" how you should wire the DB. The fact that you ask these question make me worry. The main breaker and EL is suppose to protect you and the installation, and how it is wired now is by-passing all the safety measures.

I guess it would be possible for you to rewire the DB, and my first Question would be, can you switch off the live (60A) wires comming in to the DB?
Or are you going to work live?
 
Penny wise, pound foolish.

Look at the bright side. The money you save by doing it yourself can go towards the deposit of a new house once this one burns down.
 
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