Wug Experience

[DenSweep]

WUG never gets shut down, except by Eskom or by lightning or domestic workers.

Or pets who trample POE connectors...

 

[protzkrog]

Just a point of intrest - our Keevy Kop Highsite was bliksemed by lightning a week ago, 2x routerboards and 3x radios and all the power equipment fried.
Keevy Kop is a 30m solid steel tower with a ladder attached on one side. Our equipment is at 28m. RomeoOs climbed the tower alone yesterday and replaced all the damaged equipment. This is not his job, he does not get paid to fix highsites, he does it as a dedicated PTAWUG member.

Wearing a adult nappy is required when climbing Keevy Kop, you **** yourself every 5 rungs on the ladder.

 

[ColinR]

Keevy Kop is a 30m solid steel tower with a ladder attached on one side. Our equipment is at 28m.

28m? I'll pass

I think if I ever got to 28m I'd be stuck solid. Never mind working at that height :erm:

 

[Timber_MG]

Or mine laying tanks who crush POE connectors...

fixxed

 

[DenSweep]

fixxed

HAHAHA!

 

[martin]

Just a point of intrest - our Keevy Kop Highsite was bliksemed by lightning a week ago, 2x routerboards and 3x radios and all the power equipment fried.
Keevy Kop is a 30m solid steel tower with a ladder attached on one side. Our equipment is at 28m. RomeoOs climbed the tower alone yesterday and replaced all the damaged equipment. This is not his job, he does not get paid to fix highsites, he does it as a dedicated PTAWUG member.

Wearing a adult nappy is required when climbing Keevy Kop, you **** yourself every 5 rungs on the ladder.

Applause!

 

[DenSweep]

Wearing a adult nappy is required when climbing Keevy Kop, you **** yourself every 5 rungs on the ladder.

Not so much for you, but for the guy climbing up below you!

 

[vaalpens]

Any wugger who dares to level any kind of critiscm is flamed to death.

skies, ek moet nou eers my 2 cents ook hier gooi...

Solmed, I also moan and bitch a lot, more than Louis' wife and irritate the admins, lol, but we still get along
but I help a lot of users struggling with basic issues etc, I donate frequently etc, and im on IRC atleast 95% of the time. And i also understand their side, if you have to help 50 people a day, explaining what is an IP, and whats the difference between ethernet and wlan, you WILL get gatvol.

I try do to my part of the community project where possible helping noobs etc

 

[Saint_DC]

I hope the JHB network is not the same!

These issues remind me of school prefects (admins) that don't know how to use this 'new found power' and start becoming a 'false elite'.

No matter what reasons the admins might have about 'the stupid users' - it must be very embarrassing to have people post issues such as the WUG becoming segmented between admins and users.

I hope the JHB WUG is taking note on how NOT TO BE AS ADMINS.

I will be joining the JHB network soon (did signal tests yesterday).

 

[Saint_DC]

Those 'mortals' on the PTA WUG,.. i feel for you!

Maybe you can link up to the JHB WUG and effectively boycott your PTA 'ueber admins'

 

[protzkrog]

those damn admins, jo, they should quit their jobs, leave their wives and spend 100% of their time on PTAWUG, sorting out issues, helping users by spoonfeeding them and devote all their time to the network and receive no pay for it. if any highsite breaks they must drive there immediately and fix it, no matter what.
</sarcasm>


elite ? yoh, helping people that are never on IRC, never contribute, never help on a highsite, just connect on IRC when they have a problem and then you never hear from them again, thats moerse elite doing that.
Climbing towers, putting up highsites, developing qos scripts, sorting out general *** on the network so that all the users can have a better experience, also very elite. Tens of thousands of man hours have been spent on the maintainence of PTAWUG, the physical highsites and the configs, and not just by admins, by users as well. PTAWUG is a community network, it's eveyone's responsibility to help and get involved, even if you just carry up some kit up a mountain or put up grids or crimp LMR. Many people just want a "service" as if they paid for it but do not want to do anything in return to help and improve the network.

I would please like examples or some proof of where admins deliberately screwed up a user's connection or something of the like. Admins who don't contribute or get "lost" get their rights revoked.

I do not understand how people can expect that all admins should answer their every call at any time. Then they do not understand how a wug works, at all.

All users can not be given write access to all highsites, it will be proper chaos. Thus trustworthy people that know what they are doing apply to be admins and help as much as they can.

There are also a lot of admins, listed on IRC, so solmed's whole rant is void, if one guy can not help you, you ask the next to help, simple as that. It's not difficult to understand that admins have lives and jobs, that they can not be in front their PC's 24/7 to serve your every need, so if a person does not reply to your message he either is not in front of his PC or he is busy with something more important, then you try the next admin in the list.

if any user feels they can do a better job and be availible 24/7 and have nice trust fund so he does not have to work, have no wife or kids or girlfriend or life he is welcome to apply on the wiki -> technical -> admin page. (normal people with wives, lives and jobs also welcome).

oh and PTAWUG is already linked to Jawug, has been for almost 2 years, we play a lot of lekker CSS.

 

[Saint_DC]

Enough said! Good example of speech that segments between ''those other' users and 'hard working' admins.

We all know this is a free service graciously done by volenteers and at no time should anyone feel obliged to do anything beyond that which one wishes to do (even if people suggest divorcing your wife to help the wug).

I hope at some point someone will start asking what can be done to improve things in PTA rather than asking for evidence of claims being true/false.

Often the complaints are symptoms rather than root causes of dissatisfaction. Be it true/false,... it seems from this thread there is maybe a need to change a culture that has come about.

I dont know,... however from the threads i see,.. this might be true.

 

[PsyWulf]

we play a lot of lekker CSS.

Protspoef! I believed you till you said that,now I know you're lying

 

[jurkrit]

Ok, ek is self 'n redelike nuwe user op PTAWug, en ek verstaan nie waaroor die gemoan gaan nie. Ek het self 2 dae gewag vir my IP's omdat die manne te besig was maar ek was geduldig. Die hele idee van die WUG is, jy moet dit doen omdat dit vir jou lekker is, nie om te kyk op wie jy kan skree as iets nie werk nie, kyk eerder of jy kan help om die oplossing te kry.

En mense klim op IRC al chat jy nie, lees net wat die mense daar se, dit help ook baie.

Dankie vir admins julle doen 'n great werk ,die highsite waaraan ek connect se admin is great , Gripen thanks vir 'n great highsite.

 

[protzkrog]

Enough said! Good example of speech that segments between ''those other' users and 'hard working' admins.

Rather place a distinction between "user who don't want to help improve the network, but demand service as if it was a business" and users who understand what a wug is. There will always, in any group/club/business/organisation be a disctinction between those who don't help/contribute and those who do. I don't know what you are trying to suggest, that admins do nothing?

We all know this is a free service graciously done by volenteers and at no time should anyone feel obliged to do anything beyond that which one wishes to do (even if people suggest divorcing your wife to help the wug).

If someone does not wish to do something to improve network he should not expect instant help and then disappear. It work's both ways. All community members are part of the network, the network belongs to everyone, thus it's everyone's duty to help/expand/improve. If you don't feel like helping to improve the network, you have the wrong attitude to be a wugger.

Often the complaints are symptoms rather than root causes of dissatisfaction. Be it true/false,...

If you are connected to PTAWUG, you will be able to view the Highsite Planning page, were new projects are planned, discussed, help offered, etc. Thats how we improve the network.

Highsite plans
[edit] New highsites

* Valhalla-East Highsite running an omni - backboning to Valhalla (VH), Winnie and Hornbill Highsite(HB).
* Mnandi Highsite
* Eldoraigne
* Elandsrand Elandsrand Highsite - House in brits on a kopie, to cover a reasonable area in Elandsrand and Brits
* EN Highsite in Eldoraigne - Next to the Eldoraigne water tower
* Die Hoewes Highsite - Right next to supersport park, running a omni, connecting to CC_SectorN
* Irene Scout Hall Highsite - located central Irene
* Timothy Highsite - located in Waterkloof Glen, LOS to LW
* Kameeldrift Highsite - halfway to Brits, to link to Hartbeespoort and Brits and eventually Rustenburg
* Derdepoort Backbone option 2 The owner of the MP highsite location has a warehouse next to the N1 highway, that has possible los to DW. There is also a water tower on the premisies that can be used. Plotted as XerxesBB.
* Wapadrand Highsite - to cover eastern Wapadrand, Hazeldean, Sliver Lakes from the north facing ridge of the bronberg.
* Waterkloof Ridge Highsite in Waterkloof Rif, 25m tower on the premises
* Biotite Highsite located in Elarduspark with LOS to EP, MK, parts of Centurion and JHB
* Highveld2 Highsite located in Highveld. Hardware all completed, needs software setup.

[edit] Highsite upgrades or new links

* Koedoeberg Sector upgrade
* Raslouw to Hornbill backbone link
* Angvick na JOZI (JAWUG) link - Dual
* Core 802.11n ring backbone
* ZK Fix - A plan to get ZK back to its previous state

[edit] Highsite proposed

* Die_Hoewes2

[edit] Old Plans

* Moreleta park 2/milkybar Got a free 9m tower, which should be able to mount on their roof.
* Moreleta Park NG Church - possible HS in Moreleta Park. Great LOS
* Linking_around_the_Magaliesberg_mountain - Planning of links around the Magaliesberg mountain
* Magalies 2 - Giffie organised space on a tower on the magalies above Kollonade
* Wierdapark2 LOS to RL, Will improve coverage in lower lying areas admins to advise on kit to be used <--- RL is full, no space for backbone grids
* Christoburg Highsite - above Erasmia, nice LOS to most Centurion highsites

[edit] Completed Plans

* Kameelfontein Highsite - near Roodeplaatdam. --> Done, up and running (KobusHR)
* Die Wilgers Sector SSW Capacity Expansion - Proposal to fund and install an additional sector.
* Concerto Park - Installed on 14-06-09. Still waiting for CT-ER link to be completed.
* KoedoeBerg - Installed on 13-06-09. KB-HF link completed on 15-07-09.
* Hatfield - HF site will cover Hatfield, Hillcrest, Arcadia, Groenkloof and Brooklyn areas.
* Die Wilgers - Waverley Link : Nuwe LMR vir die WL-DW grid, het bestel (2009/03/02) sal hopelik die week opkry -ProtZkroG
* Relieving the load on RL - ons moet n plan maak.
* Removing the Olympus grid from Constantia Park and turing the OP-CP grid to face epox. The connection from OP to CP is very bad, as the LOS isn't great and the OP grid on CP sit right next to the wall. The grid and radio can then be used somewhere else. This wil also reduce the noise a bit on CP. Please comment.
* Erasmusrand new highsite that hellhound found, can pick up Die Wilgers, Zwartkop and Raslouw from there - donations listed on http://www.ptawug.co.za/content_list_18 will install as soon as all the money is in. This site will hopefully improve the speed between the Centurion and Pretoria network segments.
* Zwartkop_&_Raslouw_swap
* NW Omni opsit
* Hermon - Added 2nd pole, 2nd Routerboard and Sectors to the South and East.
* Boneschans Going to create redundant link to LT from BC. Also going to create link to JacquesO via grid to grid. Possible other link from BC to FrancoisLu who in turn will link to [Phizor] who can link to IR and possibly RV. (Link to LT is up, just need to align still)
* Keevy Kop - Near the Voortrekker Monument - possible link between the Moot and Centurion segments as well as PTA Central and West coverage 1
* Angvick na Zwartkop - Redundancy na ooste via ER
* Orchards - New Highsite to cover Orchards, Rosslyn, Chantelle, Clarina and a few other areas. Kit has been bought and assembled. 12/5/2008(Corrie). Installed on 13/06/09 by Corrie, KobusHR and Hansie. Corrie had n heart attack, was rushed to hospital.Thanks Ghost and Trunks for jumping in and help finish the job.
* Heuweloord - backbone to Wierda Mall and maybe The Reeds and providing more coverage
* Angvick na Gryskop.
* Rooihuiskraal (Gryskop, RK) - To provide coverage in the southern Centurion area - backbone to Angvick
* Concerto Park LOS to ER, point-to-point link to BC
* Midstream Highsite - At Firestarter's place, backboned to Jinx
* Ninowweg and Valhalla upgrade Jun 2009 - giving NW more CPU and linking ZK to NW
* Magalieskruin 1x 17dBi 90Deg Sector, 1x RB433
* erlang expansion - Grid2Grid From Olympus or PinOak. Omni for Connection, Help 4 People to Connect around me.
* Olympus upgrade Jun 2009 - getting more than one bb link from OP
* Central Centurion Upgrade (CC2) - upgrade of CC to have a sector/omni and 2 additional backbones (to take some load off ZK and provide extra capacity)
* Hornbill_Project Highsite - located Rooihuiskraal, Centurion
* CP Security Cams - installing cameras to keep the owners happy
* Basden, everything in place, install on the 10th of October
* Noord_reconfig Plan
* MK_Sector_Upgrade Mooikloof(MK) Replace OMNI with 2 x 120° & 1 x 90° Sector and add new BB link
* RL_upgrade RL needs to be upgraded urgently with more backbone links
* W0W Highsite - Possible new sector to cover the rest of The Reeds as well as Heuweloord and reduce RL load as well as load on TR and BL. Possible to link to either Wierdapark or WM for another backbone. I have a radio with 2 x open slots, one for sector and one for backbone.
* Irene to Hornbill 802.11n backbone link - 17&18 October 2009
* Hornbill 3 x Sectors Install - 31 October 2009
* Rietfontein Highsite - In the moot on the side of the Magalies, to relieve load on RR and WL 6 Nov 2009

[edit] Scrapped Plans

* La Montagne Highsite - On top of Cheverny flats. - Massive block of flats on top of the la montagne mountain. Excellent visibility in all directions (Plotted as "La Montagne Highsite")
* Surebank Highsite in MeyersPark

Donations for those projects : http://www.ptawug.co.za/content_list_29

I hope at some point someone will start asking what can be done to improve things in PTA rather than asking for evidence of claims being true/false.

When making claims, one usually supplies proof. It lends a certain credibility to those claims. Once again, please some proof of where admins broke a user's connection on purpouse, or where a admin was rude (other than ignoring someone because he was not at his PC or had more important or pressing issues).

it seems from this thread there is maybe a need to change a culture that has come about.

Change the culture to what ? Spoonfeeding ? Commercial network with paid admins and monthly fees ?



P.S. PTAWUG is the biggest wug in SA, fastest growth rate, most highsites, in my opinion that means that we are doing something right, but ja.

 

[protzkrog]

Protspoef! I believed you till you said that,now I know you're lying

when Nitrous from Jawug plays, it's not so lekker, cause he headshots you stukkend altyd, eish!

 

[snymanr]

I must say, i have only received good service from ALL the admins.

RomeoOs have been helping me since day 1. Once I realized that the admins also have lives (hehe), it went smooth.

I have dealt with at least 5 different admins and they ALL went out of their way to assist me.

From 07:00 on a Sunday morning to sometimes 22:00 on a Monday, there were always someone willing to help.

They were always friendly and tried their best to help a struggling wugger (me).

So I do not see the need for ANYBODY to complain...

Thanks to all the admins for their gr8 service.

 

[Saint_DC]

Rather place a distinction between "user who don't want to help improve the network, but demand service as if it was a business" and users who understand what a wug is. There will always, in any group/club/business/organisation be a disctinction between those who don't help/contribute and those who do. I don't know what you are trying to suggest, that admins do nothing?


If someone does not wish to do something to imrpove network he should not expect instant help and then disappear. It work's both ways. All community members are part of the network, the network belongs to everyone, thus it's everyone's duty to help/expand/improve.


If you are connected to PTAWUG, you will be able to view the Highsite Planning page, were new projects are planned, discussed, help offered, etc. Thats how we improve the network.



Donations for those projects : http://www.ptawug.co.za/content_list_29



When making claims, one usually supplies proof. It lends a certain credibility to those claims. Once again, please some proof of where admins broke a user's connection on purpouse, or where a admin was rude (other than ignoring someone because he was not at his PC or had more important or pressing issues).


Change the culture to what ? Spoonfeeding ? Commercial network with paid admins and monthly fees ?



P.S. PTAWUG is the biggest wug in SA, fastest growth rate, most highsites, in my opinion that means that we are doing something right, but ja.

OMG!

Gather your evidence,... will there be a court marshall too? I feel for the poor user, who voiced his complaint as he needs to now dig up evidence.... I just wish the attitudes would have been more supportive, empathetic and understanding rather than that of needing to PROVE CLAIMS with EVIDENCE before being taken serious.


Maybe it would be easier to just ask the guy what he feels could be done better and have a discussion with him/her/them. Let him understand what your constraints are and what would possibly be next steps to resolving any of the issues (proven or not proven).

Even if the guy has ZERO EVIDENCE,... its a pitty that SOME (not all of PTAWUG - as I am sure there are some really nice people there) will only help if the claims are PROVEN rather than just trying to undertand and help the guy.


I have no evidence to support any of the above will work better than flaming someone witha complaint and asking him/her/them to PROVE it. But, I know that I peronaly feel that with companies/communities/peeople that unconditionaly want to improve things are often nice/better/more sustainable than those that need me to gather evidence.

A bit like my friends,... I am supportive of them not matter how outragous their claims and wish to address their issues with me (if any) if I wish to do so,... together with them.

But that's just me,...

I certainly would not fit in well in the 'prove yourself' culture.

 

[Saint_DC]

Please dont get me wrong,.. I am sure there are some really nice people as well as admins on the PTA WUG,... and there might be some bad apples there to.

I just think one can handle complaints etc differently to:

'Where's the evidence to support your claims/complaints?'

I am sure great companies/communities/people do things differently,.. but i might be wrong,... and its only an opinion.

 

[protzkrog]

OMG!

Gather your evidence,... will there be a court marshall too? I feel for the poor user, who voiced his complaint as he needs to now dig up evidence.... I just wish the attitudes would have been more supportive, empathetic and understanding rather than that of needing to PROVE CLAIMS with EVIDENCE before being taken serious.

the evidence that I am talking about is concerning your first post, of how useless the PTAWUG admins are. How badly PTAWUG is run.

Maybe it would be easier to just ask the guy what he feels could be done better and have a discussion with him/her/them. Let him understand what your constraints are and what would possibly be next steps to resolving any of the issues (proven or not proven).

Yes, everything is on the wiki, planning page, network issues page, it is there to be used. Then also IRC, which is the main comms medium, all these things are in place, it is a matter of using them

I have no evidence to support any of the above will work better than flaming someone witha complaint and asking him/her/them to PROVE it. But, I know that I peronaly feel that with companies/communities/peeople that unconditionaly want to improve things are often nice/better/more sustainable than those that need me to gather evidence.

Gather some evidence about how 'evil' and useless the admins are. How they sit on their arses the whole day and refuse to help users.
Once again, PTAWUG is the biggest wug in SA, with the fastest growth rate, are we doing something right ?

I certainly would not fit in well in the 'prove yourself' culture.

*prove your claim. eg.
incorrect way: "My wug is broken, please fix it"
correct way: "I can not scan my highsite anymore, is the power off or something, can we do something to help, buy a UPS or get an alternative power source"