"Zille violated Constitution", Public Protector

evilstebunny said:
Seems a bit out of balance tho, Zuma & his son got a British company to cause racial division for selfish monetary gain, not to mention the Gooptahs, while Zille and her son temporary borrowed state equipment to uplift some poor kids in a township.

PP never said a word about our ex-president state capture except that she has no money to investigate, yet she has resources to condemn someone who legitamitely uses government resources to improve the lives of citizens.

If that makes me hypocritical then I'll wear the accusation proudly..
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The law does not work on feels.

Are we also going to condemn the PP for investigating Fikele because Zuma is the bigger crime?
 
Sinbad said:
Where was the gratification then?
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According to some (Nomboniso Gasa, Redi Tlhabi) Zille’s son has unduly benefitted by being able to list these accomplishments on his CV.
 
surface said:
So, is it Dali Mpofu's contention that kids who received this benefit for free is "Gratification"?

I agree with HZ - it seems she pre-empted and sent mail. Are there any non-Zille relatives taking up on this offer yet?

"There was neither a benefit nor was there a conflict of interest. She said there could have been a RISK of a possible PERCEPTION of a conflict which I mitigated by sending an email ensuring that EVERYONE who wanted to give free matric revision should be able to use the tablets." - HZ

I hope HZ takes this to court and win it.
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I am a bit more pragmatic with this, It happened around a dinner table not many have access to the Premier like that, How where people notified that the department would release the tablets earlier than expected.

Where people made aware personally or was is a directive that if someone did need it they could get it?
 
EADC said:
The law does not work on feels.

Are we also going to condemn the PP for investigating Fikele because Zuma is the bigger crime?
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Interesting that you'd mention Fikele since he benefitted his family directly with that paid holiday. What did Helen and her son score from their philanthropy? Too much trouble to consider doind a good deed again..
 
EADC said:
I am a bit more pragmatic with this, It happened around a dinner table not many have access to the Premier like that, How where people notified that the department would release the tablets earlier than expected.

Where people made aware personally or was is a directive that if someone did need it they could get it?
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Sure, we don't have all the details but let us assume HZ used explicit influence to release tablets (no evidence yet) and that benefited project that her son was involved in. What benefit her son got ? Didn't he offer his time & services free? I can see someone argue that he got personal satisfaction or that he got free publicity as "gratification", then it is another topic.

Also, without a shadow of doubt, I can safely say that HZ would have put in a good word to expedite matters in hundreds of similar cases where her son was not involved. And I am as anti-DA supporter as you can get here.
 
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evilstebunny said:
Interesting that you'd mention Fikele since he benefitted his family directly with that paid holiday. What did Helen and her son score from their philanthropy? Too much trouble to consider doind a good deed again..
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Irrelevant the law does not work on feels, or is Facts > feels only when it suits you?

But the point is his benefit was far far less than Zuma so she should not have investigated correct? because that is what you are saying?
 
EADC said:
I am a bit more pragmatic with this, It happened around a dinner table not many have access to the Premier like that, How where people notified that the department would release the tablets earlier than expected.

Where people made aware personally or was is a directive that if someone did need it they could get it?
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That is a good point.
 
3WA said:
According to some (Nomboniso Gasa, Redi Tlhabi) Zille’s son has unduly benefited by being able to list these accomplishments on his CV.
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Surprised that Redi Tlhabi would say this. Do you have the link? IMO, we need more people that "unduly benefit" like this - it is definitely not easy to offer free time like this.
 
surface said:
Sure, we don't have all the details but let us assume HZ used explicit influence to release tablets (no evidence yet) and that benefited project that her son was involved in. What benefit her son got ? Didn't he offer his time & services free? I can see someone argue that he got personal satisfaction or that he got free publicity as "gratification", then it is another topic.
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I think what the PP is trying to nail her on is the influence, so if we remove the feels she still used her influence to get this done, the question we can also ask is if some not her son approached her would she act the same?

It is Helen so she might have but since it is her son it looks bad, but if she contrivened the ethics code nothing to said really.
 
EADC said:
I think what the PP is trying to nail her on is the influence, so if we remove the feels she still used her influence to get this done, the question we can also ask is if some not her son approached her would she act the same?

It is Helen so she might have but since it is her son it looks bad, but if she contrivened the ethics code nothing to said really.
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To me this is pretty much a technicality. We should apply the same logic to this as we would to any other breach of the law to determine culpability.
Was there mens rea? Was there harm? etc?

To equate this instance to the large scale looting that has characterised other breaches of the same act is disingenuous at best.
 
EADC said:
I think what the PP is trying to nail her on is the influence, so if we remove the feels she still used her influence to get this done, the question we can also ask is if some not her son approached her would she act the same?.
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That is why I said "Also, without a shadow of doubt, I can safely say that HZ would have put in a good word to expedite matters in hundreds of similar cases where her son was not involved. And I am as anti-DA supporter as you can get here. ". Of course, you can say I have no evidence that she expedited non-son related matters - but one can hazard a guess.

People in Politics can definitely influence for the good of community. That is why one needs good people in Politics.
 
surface said:
Surprised that Redi Tlhabi would say this. Do you have the link? IMO, we need more people that "unduly benefit" like this - it is definitely not easy to offer free time like this.
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Appears working hard, giving up your free time and helping those less fortunate is now a crime. He was giving these lessons prior to all this, anyway!
 
surface said:
Surprised that Redi Tlhabi would say this. Do you have the link? IMO, we need more people that "unduly benefit" like this - it is definitely not easy to offer free time like this.
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Read it in the context of Gasa’s tweet.
8AA24F82-A30B-4BDD-B7DC-7863EA6C1EAF.jpeg
 
Excalibur said:
So you would defend Zuma or Bathabile Dlamini for doing the same thing?
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Not only would I defend them, I would praise them and even start reassessing the negative view I have of them.

Imagine that - Zuma using his influence to get one of his family members to give up their free time to uplift disadvantaged children.
 
3WA said:
Read it in the context of Gasa’s tweet.
View attachment 595018
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He didn't reap those "benefits" because of the tablets. He reaped them because he used his spare time to, pro bono, teach underprivileged matrics Maths.

Conflating the tool with the action here. I didn't fix my gate because I had a welding machine, I fixed my gate because I took the time and effort to do it.
 
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