Zuma backs De la Rey

Well it seems that Zuma is also reading myadsl.co.za :).


tibby seems to believe that MyAdsl represents a tiny sector of the public that believes crime is out of control.

He still has huge support, probably enough to guarantee him the presidential nod. The ANC knows this, and the ANC will use this.

He may have support, but Zuma is clearly a personality rather than a party man. The Party will elect whomever they think will be best for them. The only reason Mbeki's hung on this long is that he has support based on the fact that he consistenly backs what's best for The Party over anything else.
 
He may have support, but Zuma is clearly a personality rather than a party man. The Party will elect whomever they think will be best for them. The only reason Mbeki's hung on this long is that he has support based on the fact that he consistenly backs what's best for The Party over anything else.
Just two things. Mbeki has gone against the grain of the ANC in his term - the ANC want a man reporting to them - he is not a party man. Zuma is. The ANC dictates policy in this country, and with Mbeki at the helm that policy has not always been adhered to. Zuma will change that. He is a pawn and the ANC would prefer that over the likes of Sexwale or someone similar.
 
Hi BobbyMac,

My justification for my statement perhaps needs some further elaboration. Jacob Zuma enjoys the support of the people at large. However, support of the people is not a primary concern for the ANC, since it will enjoy the support of the people no matter what. It is not like voters will leave the ANC en masse if Zuma is not appointed president.

The ANC in all probability relies on funding from rich party members. Such party members (the likes of Sexwale and Ramaphosa) can excersize huge financial clout. I reckon that these people will not back Zuma for two reasons:
(1) He is an embarresment to the ANC. Having a leader whose personal problems are on the front page of every newspaper in the country damages an organisations reputation.
(2) Zuma's support base is socialist, therefore he will be obliged to follow a socialist path. The ANC funding base in all probability have grown to very much like capitalism (as they have benefitted greatly from it). Any departure from a capitalist system would be of huge concern to their financial interests.
(3) The international community would regard Zuma's presidency as a huge risk. As a consequence, SA markets would take a big tumble (at least initially). The ANC elite is smart enough to work this out.
 
Hi BobbyMac,

My justification for my statement perhaps needs some further elaboration. Jacob Zuma enjoys the support of the people at large. However, support of the people is not a primary concern for the ANC, since it will enjoy the support of the people no matter what. It is not like voters will leave the ANC en masse if Zuma is not appointed president.

The ANC in all probability relies on funding from rich party members. Such party members (the likes of Sexwale and Ramaphosa) can excersize huge financial clout. I reckon that these people will not back Zuma for two reasons:
(1) He is an embarresment to the ANC. Having a leader whose personal problems are on the front page of every newspaper in the country damages an organisations reputation.
(2) Zuma's support base is socialist, therefore he will be obliged to follow a socialist path. The ANC funding base in all probability have grown to very much like capitalism (as they have benefitted greatly from it). Any departure from a capitalist system would be of huge concern to their financial interests.
(3) The international community would regard Zuma's presidency as a huge risk. As a consequence, SA markets would take a big tumble (at least initially). The ANC elite is smart enough to work this out.

All speculation of course with not a single grain of proof or evidence
 
All speculation of course with not a single grain of proof or evidence

Your point? I didn't market it as proof or evidence. I marketed it as opinion. If you disagree, provide a logical counter-argument.

Has anything else on this forum been marketed as proof? Can you provide proof that Zuma is running for president?

Your statement is facile, to say the least, and shows that you have little understanding of what consitutes a logical debate.

If you have something worthwhile to say about my posts, then say it. Otherwise, keep your meaningless crticism to yourself.
 
Tassidar: embarrassment for who? The ANC or T-Bone? T-Bone has been a bigger embarrassment than could ever have been imagined. His AIDS stance. His "crime is only a perception" statements. His concerns and ambitions with central Africa over South Africa and Zimbabwe. All in all, T-Bone has failed South Africa on a grand scale. He kept incompetent people in his government while he was away doing what a foreign affairs minister is supposed to be doing. As far as T-Bone vs Jacob Zuma is concerned, at least Jacob Zuma will be the village idiot who stays in the village, rather than the wannabe philosopher off trying to save a country while those in his own country dies thanks to his incompetent cabinet. I'd take the fool over the absent wannabe any day. At least with a fool you know what you're getting.
 
Tassidar: embarrassment for who? The ANC or T-Bone? T-Bone has been a bigger embarrassment than could ever have been imagined. His AIDS stance. His "crime is only a perception" statements. His concerns and ambitions with central Africa over South Africa and Zimbabwe. All in all, T-Bone has failed South Africa on a grand scale. He kept incompetent people in his government while he was away doing what a foreign affairs minister is supposed to be doing. As far as T-Bone vs Jacob Zuma is concerned, at least Jacob Zuma will be the village idiot who stays in the village, rather than the wannabe philosopher off trying to save a country while those in his own country dies thanks to his incompetent cabinet. I'd take the fool over the absent wannabe any day. At least with a fool you know what you're getting.

By embarrasment, I meant embarresment for leading members of the ANC, particularly those in the private sector who in all probability fund the ANC.
 
However, his approval ratings don't reflect failure on a grand scale. Maybe its more about your perception rather than a general perception.
And general perception can never be wrong? :rolleyes:
 
Choosing between T-Bone and Jacob Zuma is like choosing between two bowls of ****. The big difference between the two is the one bowl of **** is labeled "idiot's ****" - so you know what you're getting.
 
Let's look at the last couple of years for Zuma.
(1) He has had to face charges of fraud and corruption
(2) He has had a rape trial
(3) He now faces charges of tax evasion
(4) The media have ridiculed him at every turn
(5) Many of the influential figures in the ANC (not necessarily only politicians, but businessmen etc...) will be turning against him.
Yet the ANC Youth League think him a hero.
Says a lot for the ANC Y.L.
Makes one fear the future under these clowns.
 
(2) Zuma's support base is socialist, therefore he will be obliged to follow a socialist path. The ANC funding base in all probability have grown to very much like capitalism (as they have benefitted greatly from it). Any departure from a capitalist system would be of huge concern to their financial interests.
What makes you think that Zuma would depart from official ANC policy? Has he ever questioned the current ANC policy in anyway? From what I've heard from the man he is very much a party man. He seems the type that is happy just carrying out the party mandate. There seems to be more movement in the opposite direction to what you are purpoting. Cyril Ramaphosa, Jay Naidoo, Tito Mboweni, Alec Erwin, Sydney Mufamadi, all eminated from Cosatu and moved to the public and private spheres. I don't see them pushing socialist agendas.
(3) The international community would regard Zuma's presidency as a huge risk. As a consequence, SA markets would take a big tumble (at least initially). The ANC elite is smart enough to work this out.
If you are going to speculate at least give us your reasons for your speculation. Why do you think Zuma's presidency would lead to markets tumbling?
 
Perception once again lurks it's ugly head, the perception that crime is out of control, the perception of the white man's suffering, stems from the perception that Mbeki and his cabinet have failed the country.

Luckily there are these little things we call facts, that when we choose to look at, show us what is really happening in the country

Perception that crime is out of control

At no stage, did Thabo Mbeki, Charles Nqakula, or Jackie Selebi, say that crime is not serious problem in this country - I can quote numerous statements where that was said. President Mbeki said that crime was not out of control - and he is right, there is a difference between having a serious problem and a crime situation that is out of control, As evidenced by the numbers of people in our shopping malls, in restaurants, pubs and clubs or even out on the roads during the day and night, people are not sitting locked up in their houses, ****-scared, so therefore the crime situation is not out of control but a serious problem, which is what the President said. The perception that crime has spiralled out of control, has been fuelled by opposition parties, without naming names, some who can't even come up with an original plan to combat the problem ( I didn't say the DA :D ), leading the President to say in a statement that the crime problem is being irresponsibly used for political gain. Besides the silly statement that Govt benefits from VAT because of crime, there is no real advantage for Government not to tackle the issue.

Perception that the white man is suffering

This is probably the most ludicrous perception, that has recently become a cause for 'grave concern' amongst white people, but I suppose that owning the majority of the land and wealth in the country, and having the highest employment rate in the country is not enough.

Perception that Mbeki and cabinet has failed the country

With the exception of Mandela and possibly Jan Smuts, no other President has been as well respected as President Thabo Mbeki and his cabinet, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, Charles Nqakula, Phumzile Mlambo-Nguka, et al, are well received wherever they travel, and are sought after for advice and guidance. The function of the President is not to run the day to day affairs of the country, this is why there are Govt departments specifically delegated to take care of these duties. As to these duties, alot has been done during Mbeki's time in office, for further details look at his Plan of Action. Mbeki is also the first President to publicly hold his ministers accountable.
 
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Perception once again lurks it's ugly head, the perception that crime is out of control, the perception of the white man's suffering, stems from the perception that Mbeki and his cabinet have failed the country.

Luckily there are these little things we call facts, that when we choose to look at, show us what is really happening in the country

Perception that crime is out of control

At no stage, did Thabo Mbeki, Charles Nqakula, or Jackie Selebi, say that crime is not serious problem in this country - I can quote numerous statements where that was said. President Mbeki said that crime was not out of control - and he is right, there is a difference between having a serious problem and a crime situation that is out of control, As evidenced by the numbers of people in our shopping malls, in restaurants, pubs and clubs or even out on the roads during the day and night, people are not sitting locked up in their houses, ****-scared, so therefore the crime situation is not out of control but a serious problem, which is what the President said. The perception that crime has spiralled out of control, has been fuelled by opposition parties, without naming names, some who can't even come up with an original plan to combat the problem ( I didn't say the DA :D ), leading the President to say in a statement that the crime problem is being irresponsibly used for political gain. Besides the silly statement that Govt benefits from VAT because of crime, there is no real advantage for Government not to tackle the issue.

Perception that the white man is suffering

This is probably the most ludicrous perception, that has recently become a cause for 'grave concern' amongst white people, but I suppose that owning the majority of the land and wealth in the country, and having the highest employment rate in the country is not enough.

Perception that Mbeki and cabinet has failed the country

With the exception of Mandela and possibly Jan Smuts, no other President has been as well respected as President Thabo Mbeki and his cabinet, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, Charles Nqakula, Phumzile Mlambo-Nguka, et al, are well received wherever they travel, and are sought after for advice and guidance. The function of the President is not to run the day to day affairs of the country, this is why there are Govt departments specifically delegated to take care of these duties. As to these duties, alot has been done during Mbeki's time in office, for further details look at his Plan of Action. Mbeki is also the first President to publicly hold his ministers accountable.

Any links to prove your so called facts ?
 
xtermin8or: next time you want to type so much crap, save yourself the effort and just say: "I am a T-Bone ass-licking stooge"
 
Any links to prove your so called facts ?

I have posted the sources for these facts so many times before, I felt it would be a waste of time, but a quick google should get you the results you need, if not, I will endeavour to repost the links
 
What makes you think that Zuma would depart from official ANC policy? Has he ever questioned the current ANC policy in anyway? From what I've heard from the man he is very much a party man. He seems the type that is happy just carrying out the party mandate. There seems to be more movement in the opposite direction to what you are purpoting. Cyril Ramaphosa, Jay Naidoo, Tito Mboweni, Alec Erwin, Sydney Mufamadi, all eminated from Cosatu and moved to the public and private spheres. I don't see them pushing socialist agendas.
If you are going to speculate at least give us your reasons for your speculation. Why do you think Zuma's presidency would lead to markets tumbling?

To answer your questions:
(1) It is possible that he wouldn't, but then he might find himself isolated from both the political left (who would think that he had betrayed them) and the political right (who think that he is an idiot). This would be a difficult line for him to tread. However, it could well happen.
(2) Do I really need to answer this question? Look at the perception of white people on this forum regarding Zuma. Do you think that foreigners will think any differently. Simply put, No! It doesn't take a genius to work that out. Also remember that the rand fell when Mboweni took over as governor of the reserve bank, a much more minor appointment, by a much less known person (in this case a good thing, because of public perception of Zuma).
 
on employment figures, just one of many sources show

Africans are 21, coloureds 15, and Indians 11 percentage points more likely to be unemployed than whites.
Source

Another source actually quantifies it as over 30 percent black and something like 2 percent whites are unemployed

But one must be blind, or totally idiotic to believe that there are more whites than blacks that are unemployed
 
Once again xtermin8or excels himself with his "facts". Those "facts" do not include people who are no longer looking for work. And it sure doesn't take the +- 1 million whites that have left the country into consideraration either.
 
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