Zuma mulls De Kock pardon

[darkevil]

President Jacob Zuma may be considering a presidential pardon for convicted apartheid-era police hit squad commander Eugene de Kock, the Sunday Independent reported on Sunday.

The newspaper said Zuma met De Kock during a secret visit to the Pretoria Central Prison in April last year. It reported that "sources close to De Kock" had described the meeting as cordial.

Zuma flew from KwaZulu-Natal to meet De Kock, the former commander of the Vlakplaas counter-insurgency base, home to "death squads" which murdered anti-apartheid activists.

De Kock apparently gave information to Zuma about the involvement of other people who got off "scot-free".

In return for a pardon, the newspaper reported, De Kock indicated he would help any new investigation into apartheid-era atrocities, including the recovery of bodies of victims of the security forces.

Zuma' spokesperson in the Presidency, Vincent Magwena, and ANC spokesperson Zizi Kodwa have denied any knowledge of the April meeting.

 

[Frankie]

All to pave the way for the pardon of his co-accused the convicted fraudster Shabby Shake.

 

[Norm!]

All to pave the way for the pardon of his co-accused the convicted fraudster Shabby Shake.

Yeah, that's what I am thinking. It will draw some attention away from some other Zuma agenda's.:erm:

 

[theratman]

President Jacob Zuma may be considering a presidential pardon for convicted apartheid-era police hit squad commander Eugene de Kock, the Sunday Independent reported on Sunday.

The newspaper said Zuma met De Kock during a secret visit to the Pretoria Central Prison in April last year. It reported that "sources close to De Kock" had described the meeting as cordial.

Zuma flew from KwaZulu-Natal to meet De Kock, the former commander of the Vlakplaas counter-insurgency base, home to "death squads" which murdered anti-apartheid activists.

De Kock apparently gave information to Zuma about the involvement of other people who got off "scot-free".

In return for a pardon, the newspaper reported, De Kock indicated he would help any new investigation into apartheid-era atrocities, including the recovery of bodies of victims of the security forces.

Zuma' spokesperson in the Presidency, Vincent Magwena, and ANC spokesperson Zizi Kodwa have denied any knowledge of the April meeting.

Don't you think that is his agenda?

 

[3G4me]

Don't you think that is his agenda?

Nope. That will be his excuse. Shabby Shaik is his agenda. It was so predictable we called it on this forum before the news even broke.

 

[semiautomatix]

de Kock should rot in a cell like the evil b****d he is. At least Hermann Göring had the decency to off himself.

 

[Morgoth]

de Kock should rot in a cell like the evil b****d he is. At least Hermann Göring had the decency to off himself.

Göring thought he could strike a deal with the yanks, - they didn't really pay off well seeing that the Americans are as guiltless as the ANC....

 

[semiautomatix]

Göring thought he could strike a deal with the yanks, - they didn't really pay off well seeing that the Americans are as guiltless as the ANC....

Er, sure. If you consider the sanctioned genocide of 11 million people who weren't even participants in the war something the USA does at regular intervals. Personally I don't see it making front page news.

 

[Morgoth]

Er, sure. If you consider the sanctioned genocide of 11 million people who weren't even participants in the war something the USA does at regular intervals. Personally I don't see it making front page news.

Suphide bombs on german children during WW2
2 big boom bombs in Japan!
1 million who died in China.
North-Korean genocide (but wait they fought against communism!!!!)
innocent people in Iraq,
Funded war in Afganistan, Angola, Somalia,
Funded wars in Isreal, poor old Palastine never saw it comming!
Hey, lets not forget the good old Vietnamese that died in Saigon


in any case, this whole de kok issue is another case where a war-criminal is only someone that is convicted because he lost the war! The issue is the exact same as the whole German trial fiasko, its a sick story on both sides.

 

[semiautomatix]

Suphide bombs on german children during WW2
2 big boom bombs in Japan!
1 million who died in China.
North-Korean genocide (but wait they fought against communism!!!!)
innocent people in Iraq,
Funded war in Afganistan, Angola, Somalia,
Funded wars in Isreal, poor old Palastine never saw it comming!
Hey, lets not forget the good old Vietnamese that died in Saigon


in any case, this whole de kok issue is another case where a war-criminal is only someone that is convicted because he lost the war! The issue is the exact same as the whole German trial fiasko, its a sick story on both sides.

Anything you've said above is moot and not admissible. America may be no saint, but they are transparent. No one knew about the holocaust, its was done in the dark of night, cloak and dagger and assisted by ordinary German civilians NOT soldiers. The only other situation that compares is the quite deaths of the Soviet people under Josef Stalin.

 

[Morgoth]

Anything you've said above is moot and not admissible. America may be no saint, but they are transparent. No one knew about the holocaust, its was done in the dark of night, cloak and dagger and assisted by ordinary German civilians NOT soldiers. The only other situation that compares is the quite deaths of the Soviet people under Josef Stalin.

Its all the same story with different versions and ways to go about it....The are no better then the Germans or Soviets with their ideologies.

edit: in the north Korean war Americans soldiers were ordered to kill anyone walking in groups of 2 as it was seen as communist/terrorist/<insert what ya want> groups. Its pretty much a solid disciprtion of genocide to me seeing that many of them were women and children who were all political pawns. No one knew about it either until, the Americans government dismissed any evidence as communist propaganda.

In any case, De Kok is no better then Mandela and his terrorist Mk organisation (Killing innocent people in Church Street including 2 of their own, lol, ), they both should be in jail or walking the gallows, but heh good luck in getting that,

 

[semiautomatix]

Its all the same story with different versions and ways to go about it....The are no better then the Germans or Soviets with their ideologies.

edit: in the north Korean war Americans soldiers were ordered to kill anyone walking in groups of 2 as it was seen as communist/terrorist/<insert what ya want> groups. Its pretty much a solid disciprtion of genocide to me seeing that many of them were women and children who were all political pawns. No one knew about it either until, the Americans government dismissed any evidence as communist propaganda.

In any case, De Kok is no better then Mandela and his terrorist Mk organisation (Killing innocent people in Church Street including 2 of their own, lol, ), they both should be in jail or walking the gallows, but heh good luck in getting that,

So it's all a conspiracy? Like JFK and Roswell?

Anyway, thats off topic, so lets just let it go.

At least your second paragraph brings us back to the discussion at hand; even if it is a bit misleading.

The TRC was set up for a reason, to admit your guilt and get this country back on the road to a peaceful future. Many killers walked away to give save us from the destruction that plagued many post-colonial African nations. No revenge was exacted by either side and many lives were saved. We were the bigger person.

Someone like de Kock believes (even to this day) that he is not guilty, and in doing that he does not deserve to belong to this new nation. He must stay behind bars for the rest of his natural life unless he actually shows genuine remorse, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Mandela forgave and in return asked for forgiveness. To continue the hate would have destroyed the country. De Kock continues to hate and he is where he needs to be.

 

[Morgoth]

Well I do know that Bridgedear Broodryk of the police force back then wanted these people convicted, he claimed that they are nothing more then murderers, that is probably why he never got Adrian Vlok's job (another person who should sit behind bars, including Witwolf and a number of ANC terrorists).

Mandela forgave and in return asked for forgiveness. To continue the hate would have destroyed the country. De Kock continues to hate and he is where he needs to be.

Mandela is a far better politician then De Kock, it doesn't make him any better to be honest,

 

[semiautomatix]

Well I do know that Bridgedear Broodryk of the police force back then wanted these people convicted, he claimed that they are nothing more then murderers, that is probably why he never got Adrian Vlok's job (another person who should sit behind bars, including Witwolf and a number of ANC terrorists).

Mandela is a far better politician then De Kock, it doesn't make him any better to be honest,

Mandela held all the cards (including the trumps) after 1994, he didn't have to answer to anyone. Yet, he, like many many others admitted his faults and asked forgiveness. He didn't have to, but he did.

De Kock, on the other hand, had lost and need to answer for his faults. Yet, as it stands, he didn't admit fault nor asked for forgiveness. He has no remorse. That is a sign of a psychopath, and he should be keep apart from society.

 

[darkevil]

So it's all a conspiracy? Like JFK and Roswell?

Anyway, thats off topic, so lets just let it go.

At least your second paragraph brings us back to the discussion at hand; even if it is a bit misleading.

The TRC was set up for a reason, to admit your guilt and get this country back on the road to a peaceful future. Many killers walked away to give save us from the destruction that plagued many post-colonial African nations. No revenge was exacted by either side and many lives were saved. We were the bigger person.

Someone like de Kock believes (even to this day) that he is not guilty, and in doing that he does not deserve to belong to this new nation. He must stay behind bars for the rest of his natural life unless he actually shows genuine remorse, though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Mandela forgave and in return asked for forgiveness. To continue the hate would have destroyed the country. De Kock continues to hate and he is where he needs to be.

I certainly hope that he comes clean and points out all the other evil c*nts who were responsible and that they are charged and tried in a court of law for their crimes.

 

[Morgoth]

Mandela held all the cards (including the trumps) after 1994, he didn't have to answer to anyone. Yet, he, like many many others admitted his faults and asked forgiveness. He didn't have to, but he did.

Like I said he is a far better politician, quite a smart person at that hand, him admiting guilt and FW, made them national heroes. If he didn't then he wouldn't have gotten the status he got. In any case, he didn't have all the cards, the Nats still have had a lot on the table.
Religion and forgiveness is quite a good political trick, it paid of very well for him.

De Kock, on the other hand, had lost and need to answer for his faults. Yet, as it stands, he didn't admit fault nor asked for forgiveness. He has no remorse. That is a sign of a psychopath, and he should be keep apart from society.

'Bittereinders', he should be kept apart, but so should half the MK terrorists, who never admited to any fault, once again the case where the victor gets to convict.

 

[Morgoth]

I certainly hope that he comes clean and points out all the other evil c*nts who were responsible and that they are charged and tried in a court of law for their crimes.

My concern is the MK people (not like they were any good soldiers), but what about the lives they took during their 'struggle'? They get to walk scot-free, while the nat-police sit in jail. Both should be behind bars.... I don't give a damm if they asked for forgiveness.

 

[semiautomatix]

Like I said he is a far better politician, quite a smart person at that hand, him admiting guilt and FW, made them national heroes. If he didn't then he wouldn't have gotten the status he got. In any case, he didn't have all the cards, the Nats still have had a lot on the table.
Religion and forgiveness is quite a good political trick, it paid of very well for him.

'Bittereinders', he should be kept apart, but so should half the MK terrorists, who never admited to any fault, once again the case where the victor gets to convict.

That we can agree up.

 

[semiautomatix]

I certainly hope that he comes clean and points out all the other evil c*nts who were responsible and that they are charged and tried in a court of law for their crimes.

Comes clean, admits fault, asks for forgiveness. Then he can be treated as the rest of the mob squad who were set on their merry way thanks to the TRC.

 

[semiautomatix]

My concern is the MK people (not like they were any good soldiers), but what about the lives they took during their 'struggle'? They get to walk scot-free, while the nat-police sit in jail. Both should be behind bars.... I don't give a damm if they asked for forgiveness.

They make good cash-intransit hijackers, though.

However, it is always difficult to punish the soldiers in any "war" since the blame should lie squarely on the shoulder's the officers and generals, as it were.