OpenWeb Gold and throttled

Bona Botse

Bona Botse

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I signed up for OpenWeb Gold due to the positive feedback that can be found on this here forum, but my experience with this product has left a lot to be desired.

Initially I was on a WebAfrica backbone, which worked fine for a little while, but then I started noticing that my downloads from usenet were being throttled to about 100KBps during off peak periods. I emailed support and they eventually put me on the IS backbone.

And this is where the fun started. From the get go, daytime speeds were throttled to 20Kbps (I'm talking normal browsing here, and HTTP downloads like drivers and Windows updates), but the off peak downloads from usenet where pretty much maxing out my line so I figured I'd just let it be.

But then I needed to use the connection during the day, and the throttling really made it unusable, I mean, speed tests were timing out! So I decided to contact support again. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll reproduce the entire email conversation below.

On Mar 7, 2012 11:47 AM, "efitol" <efitol> wrote:
Hi,

My account username is [email protected] and I'm the Gold Uncapped 4mbps.

My normal browsing is very sluggish and feels as though the speeds are being throttled. This only happens between 8am and 5pm. This seems to mostly affect international services like YouTube, Facebook and other internationally hosted sites while browsing and performing HTTP downloads, all of which should not be shaped as far as I understand. Please assist?

Regards,
efitol

From: efitol
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 10:03 AM
To: OpenWeb Support
Subject: Re: Sluggish browsing

Hi,

I sent the below email yesterday and haven't received a response. Please assist as my browsing has once again become throttled and unusable.

On Mar 8, 2012 1:53 PM, "OpenWeb Support" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello

I appreciate your email!
You have used 130GB’s in a few days. I would suggest you upgrade to the After Hours Uncapped Unshaped package for R899. This will suit your usage needs better


Kind regards,
Keoma Wright
Founder,
OpenWeb.co.za

From: efitol
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 4:50 PM
To: OpenWeb Support
Subject: Re: Sluggish browsing

Hi,

I'm not so sure what the 130 gigs have to do with being throttled on HTTP browsing and downloads during the day, or how moving to an after hours uncapped account will address my issues.

This IS account has always been throttled during peak periods, even before I downloaded the 130 gigs. It has never bothered me until now, as I now occasionally have to use it during the day. The aforementioned 130 gigs were only ever downloaded during off peak periods using Usenet.

If being throttled during the day on all protocols is part of this product then I was mislead because all the literature pertaining to this product only ever mention shaping, which I am sure you know is quite different to throttling.

In this case I would then like to request that my account be immediately terminated and that I get refunded a prorated amount for the remainder of the month. If it is not possible for the cancellation to be done with a refund, then please accept this correspondence as official notice of termination of my account, as March will be my last month.

I look forward to your response in which I hope you'll address all the points and issues that I've raised above.

Regards,
efitol

On Mar 8, 2012 5:18 PM, "OpenWeb Support" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello,

You are not being throttled, you are being shaped.

You are using a shaped service.

Unfortunately, we cannot provide a 24 / 7 unshaped experience on a shaped package.


Kind regards,
Mandy

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 5:32 PM, efitol <efitol> wrote:
What does shaped mean, and what is the difference between shaped and throttled?

If a try and download a driver from www.ati.com and the maximum speed I can get is 20KBps, am I shaped or throttled?

If I browse the web (normal websites like Digg.com, Facebook.com etc.) and the maximum speed I get is 20KBps, am I being shaped or throttled?

If I download Windows updates and the maximum speed I get is 20KBps, am I being shaped or throttled?

My maximum speed on ALL INTERNATIONAL SERVICES is 20KBps, are you seriously telling me that that is the speed that I should expect on a premium Gold account, and that I'm not being throttled?

My understanding of shaped is that certain services must give way for higher priority services when the network is busy. Is browsing a low priority service?

efitol
1:44 PM (19 hours ago)

to Keoma, OpenWeb
Hi,

I'm still experiencing being throttled on HTTP during peak hours. Please assist as this is getting more frustrating now. International speed tests report my speed as 10KBps, and that's if they don't time out due to the throttling.
Click to expand...

Here's a speed test that didn't time out and is indicative of this account's daytime performance:

1832757455.png


I have a few issues with the way that this is being handled:
1) They pick and choose which emails to respond to.
2) When they do eventually respond, they pick and choose which queries to address.
3) When they do address a query, they don't really solve the issue.
I say I'm throttled, they say I've used 130GB so far and suggest after hours uncapped. So I'm complaining that my account behaves like an after hours uncapped and their response is that I should get after hours uncapped? WTF?
They say I'm not throttled and that I'm shaped, even though this is not consistent with feedback from the OpenWeb feedback thread. Surely then EVERYONE would be "shaped" to 20KBps during daytime?

I'm very disappointed with the OpenWeb support. MrBeep always comes on here saying that it's no use complaining on the forum and that we should rather email them, but as you can see above, that too is also useless at times. I suggest that if you want a product with proper support and daytime performance, rather look elsewhere.

Oh, look, here come the fanbois ;)
 
I wasnt going to reply, but I feel that it does warrant a response.

I understand that you are miffed that your account is running slowly, but you need to understand why. I totally get what you are saying, in terms of shaping vs throttled. I guess the interpretation can be a grey area, but I guess there is little that one can do about that.

I have been with Openweb for a long time, and yes sometimes they do take a while to respond to an email, but you do get a reply. Something that often you dont get at all with other ISP's. Its all relative really.

Lastly, your "130GB in a couple of days" warrants being throttled/shaped imho. If you running a 4mbps line you looking at around 90hours to download 130GB. Thats almost 4 days of non-stop downloading. You said that you only download after-hours... So that rules out half the day. So now we up to 8 days in a row of constant downloading.

You still wonder why they shaping/throttling you? :)
 
techead, the problem is that, and I have experienced the same, (just a different explanation) is that the FUP/AUP states that yes, it's a shaped service, but there is no throttling involved, and we can download as much as we like, according to the shaping applied on heavy download protocols (this should be nntp/p2p, etc, right?).

I also has an experience with the Internet Solutions backbone that I maxed out (on my 1Mb line) at 35KB/s, no matter what the protocol. This was the case for me from 8am to 5pm every day. I did however end up getting moved to another backbone "because this backbone does not suit your needs".

The problem still comes down that efitol is very very clearly being throttled. Shaping would imply, and as per IS policy, that he would be moved to a lower priority on their network. At the very least this should have excluded http (regular browsing, etc).

To add though:
I am back on the IS backbone, on a new profile, according to OW...
Sitting on somewhere around 100GB for this month (1Mb) and I don't see any niggles on my side.
 
Last edited:
froot said:
techead, the problem is that, and I have experienced the same, (just a different explanation) is that the FUP/AUP states that yes, it's a shaped service, but there is no throttling involved, and we can download as much as we like, according to the shaping applied on heavy download protocols (this should be nntp/p2p, etc, right?).

I also has an experience with the Internet Solutions backbone that I maxed out (on my 1Mb line) at 35KB/s, no matter what the protocol. This was the case for me from 8am to 5pm every day. I did however end up getting moved to another backbone "because this backbone does not suit your needs".
Click to expand...

haha!! :D I also heard that one before... I find it amusing!

froot said:
The problem still comes down that efitol is very very clearly being throttled. Shaping would imply, and as per IS policy, that he would be moved to a lower priority on their network. At the very least this should have excluded http (regular browsing, etc).
Click to expand...

thing is, that you might find that HTTP is being throttled as well. What a lot of people do is use a torrentbox, and then download via HTTP/HTTPS with roaming proxy IP's to get around the shaping policy. So you manage to get around shaping for a couple of days/weeks but then they onto you and will nail you into the ground (20 kb/s lol)

Its quite tricky to monitor this all the time as a ISP, so they simply give you the big stick and nail you into the ground. I know how it works ;)

Imagine the overheard of running around monitoring everyone and trying to keep tabs on thousands of people making sure that everyone is being good.


froot said:
To add though:
I am back on the IS backbone, on a new profile, according to OW...
Sitting on somewhere around 100GB for this month (1Mb) and I don't see any niggles on my side.
Click to expand...

So while you have downloaded 100GB in 14 days, efitol has dowloaded 130gb in 8 days... and quite clearly this crosses the line for Openweb (MrBeep feel free to correct me if Im wrong).

The concepts are all relatively simple, I think sometimes we just expect a little too much. imho of course ;)
 
Last edited:
IS accounts have always been ruined by the throttling, it doesnt matter which ISP you use if its an IS account you will be throttled by there star rating, a rating that only they can monitor, and they change your adsl to such an extent that you have 1-5kb/s and can barely open local websites, the only way around it is not to download or watch HD movies or do anything that requires serious bandwidth, dont watch youtube clips/movies all night and definately dont download games or big updates , the next day you wont be able to browse a website, if you are already star rated which i would imagine a high % of "uncapped" users are, the only way to get rid of the star rating is not to use your adsl at all for a few days this could be 1 or 2 maybe 3 or 4 days , you will then fall out of their great rating system and be able to browse the web again.
this star rating has been around for years, and is also applied to the after hours IS accounts.
 
techead said:
haha!! :D I also heard that one before... I find it amusing!



thing is, that you might find that HTTP is being throttled as well. What a lot of people do is use a torrentbox, and then download via HTTP/HTTPS with roaming proxy IP's to get around the shaping policy. So you manage to get around shaping for a couple of days/weeks but then they onto you and will nail you into the ground (20 kb/s lol)

Its quite tricky to monitor this all the time as a ISP, so they simply give you the big stick and nail you into the ground. I know how it works ;)

Imagine the overheard of running around monitoring everyone and trying to keep tabs on thousands of people making sure that everyone is being good.




So while you have downloaded 100GB in 14 days, efitol has dowloaded 130gb in 8 days... and quite clearly this crosses the line for Openweb (MrBeep feel free to correct me if Im wrong).

The concepts are all relatively simple, I think sometimes we just expect a little too much. imho of course ;)
Click to expand...

It's true, and it's sad.
I do at times use https for my server, but it's a schlep as copying a recursive folder is a lengthy process, so I end up using sFTP.

I've only done this much up to this point this month because it's been a busy month with my Linux updates ;)
MrBeep did say (sometime in the last month) in the OW thread that there are no limits. I don't think I've ever taken that 100% literal though.
 
froot said:
It's true, and it's sad.
I do at times use https for my server, but it's a schlep as copying a recursive folder is a lengthy process, so I end up using sFTP.

I've only done this much up to this point this month because it's been a busy month with my Linux updates ;)
MrBeep did say (sometime in the last month) in the OW thread that there are no limits. I don't think I've ever taken that 100% literal though.
Click to expand...

there are no limits, but if you hit 130gb in 8 days you download to your hearts content at 20kb/s

lol ;)
 
techead said:
I wasnt going to reply, but I feel that it does warrant a response.

I understand that you are miffed that your account is running slowly, but you need to understand why. I totally get what you are saying, in terms of shaping vs throttled. I guess the interpretation can be a grey area, but I guess there is little that one can do about that.

I have been with Openweb for a long time, and yes sometimes they do take a while to respond to an email, but you do get a reply. Something that often you dont get at all with other ISP's. Its all relative really.

Lastly, your "130GB in a couple of days" warrants being throttled/shaped imho. If you running a 4mbps line you looking at around 90hours to download 130GB. Thats almost 4 days of non-stop downloading. You said that you only download after-hours... So that rules out half the day. So now we up to 8 days in a row of constant downloading.

You still wonder why they shaping/throttling you? :)
Click to expand...
They are not shaping, they are throttling. And if that's the case that this product shapes when you go above a certain threshold, then let them openly say so, instead of going around saying that they don't throttle at all.

If my after hours downloads are a problem, then why is it that I can still max out my line after hours? Surely that would be [-]throttled[/-] shaped as well? My only logical conclusion is that I do my usenet downloads when the network is not busy. But when the network is busy, I should be able to at least browse with decent speeds.

techead said:
haha!! :D I also heard that one before... I find it amusing!



thing is, that you might find that HTTP is being throttled as well. What a lot of people do is use a torrentbox, and then download via HTTP/HTTPS with roaming proxy IP's to get around the shaping policy. So you manage to get around shaping for a couple of days/weeks but then they onto you and will nail you into the ground (20 kb/s lol)

Its quite tricky to monitor this all the time as a ISP, so they simply give you the big stick and nail you into the ground. I know how it works ;)

Imagine the overheard of running around monitoring everyone and trying to keep tabs on thousands of people making sure that everyone is being good.




So while you have downloaded 100GB in 14 days, efitol has dowloaded 130gb in 8 days... and quite clearly this crosses the line for Openweb (MrBeep feel free to correct me if Im wrong).

The concepts are all relatively simple, I think sometimes we just expect a little too much. imho of course ;)
Click to expand...
I'm on a 4mb account and froot is on a 1mb account, so relatively speaking, we've done the same amount of downloading (actually, froot's done more, as thus far this month I've done 236GB), and yet froot's account is working fine and mine is being "shaped" into the ground during daytime.

And also, I'd understand if I were being throttled due to excessive daytime usage, but I can assure you that my daytime usage is nothing to speak of. I literally just want to browse the Web with decent performance, i.e. exactly what shaping is supposed to enforce.

froot said:
It's true, and it's sad.
I do at times use https for my server, but it's a schlep as copying a recursive folder is a lengthy process, so I end up using sFTP.

I've only done this much up to this point this month because it's been a busy month with my Linux updates ;)
MrBeep did say (sometime in the last month) in the OW thread that there are no limits. I don't think I've ever taken that 100% literal though.
Click to expand...
Is that not misrepresentation of the product then? The impression that I got from proponents of OpenWeb is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).
 
I've experienced the "star" rating on cheaper uncaps, and it is HORRIBLE. The Openweb 4mb gold IS backbone accounts do not have the star rating applied, however regardless of amount downloaded the so-called "shaping" or rather throttling during the day has been very bad. So bad in fact that it was impossible to play WoW or even browse youtube on my days off. The only time it lets up is in the evenings and weekends. I also noted that the throttling was lessened during the day some time over the last xmas period (probably since the IS blokes were all on leave and using it from home) for a few weeks.

Effectively, if you're on the IS backbone and the sun's up on a weekday, you're throttled.
 
efitol said:
Is that not misrepresentation of the product then? The impression that I got from proponents of OpenWeb is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).
Click to expand...

Yes, MrBeep also implies that it is a WYSIWYG service, which is where OW and other ISPs differ.
Well I try not to make misuse of the product, and there's only so much I can do with all my... updates.


thisgeek said:
I've experienced the "star" rating on cheaper uncaps, and it is HORRIBLE. The Openweb 4mb gold IS backbone accounts do not have the star rating applied, however regardless of amount downloaded the so-called "shaping" or rather throttling during the day has been very bad. So bad in fact that it was impossible to play WoW or even browse youtube on my days off. The only time it lets up is in the evenings and weekends. I also noted that the throttling was lessened during the day some time over the last xmas period (probably since the IS blokes were all on leave and using it from home) for a few weeks.

Effectively, if you're on the IS backbone and the sun's up on a weekday, you're throttled.
Click to expand...

While you say that, I share a backbone account (if I can call it that) with someone who's obviously got a 4mb line (usage indicates such), from what I can see from the IS usage panel. Our combined usage is skyrocketed... but I don't see any bad shaping as would be indicated by the usage stats?
 
And surprise, surprise, STILL no response to my last email, which was sent due to not receiving a response to the email before it :rolleyes:
 
oke, doing 500 gigs a month to me seems a little excessive, i download a lot, and do on average 300 gigs :P

Im with the gold, daytime, websites are pretty quick, HTTP downloads are at 440k, News is at 120k, torrents at 250k, after 6 everything goes full speed though :)
 
4cer said:
oke, doing 500 gigs a month to me seems a little excessive, i download a lot, and do on average 300 gigs :P
Click to expand...

Thing is, OW allows it.... but that's not the point of this discussion.

efitol said:
And surprise, surprise, STILL no response to my last email, which was sent due to not receiving a response to the email before it :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Try phoning them?
 
Thing that is awesome with uncapped is no worries. Some months I do 200gigs, other months, like February I do 60gigs.

Once you get used to the idea of uncapped you won't feel the need to make an offline backup of the internet. :D
 
Qwikslver said:
Thing that is awesome with uncapped is no worries. Some months I do 200gigs, other months, like February I do 60gigs.

Once you get used to the idea of uncapped you won't feel the need to make an offline backup of the internet. :D
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, I don't actually download a lot of stuff. It's just that I download 1080p linux distros, which are large in size.
 
One thread I must disagree with.

I have never experienced throttling on Openweb Gold. Shaping, yes, but never throttled. But then again, I like keeping the internet on the internet.
 
ijack said:
One thread I must disagree with.

I have never experienced throttling on Openweb Gold. Shaping, yes, but never throttled. But then again, I like keeping the internet on the internet.
Click to expand...

If you read the OP carefully, you'll notice that the account was throttled from the beginning.
 
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