The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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LazyLion

LazyLion

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From closed thread:

By MKFrost: You cannot compare Australia with South Africa....
Click to expand...
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Why not....I have just showed that from same revenue sources, the Aussies collect at least $20B or R200B more...yet we can't fund our roads and new highways and upgrades are tolled. Why do you expect SA to be able to make magic from so little revenue?

and...
from xeslaro: Not sure if you trolling or not - but, what part of the R500 000 000 p/km to resurface an existing road do you not see as 'highway robbery'
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...and as I poinetd out before, an upgrade by a private company on 10km of extra lane in Sydney cost $600M...that is $60M/km ...a private company that would have doenits best to cut costs...oh , I shouldn't compare.

The feeling I get from the threads and the advice given is exactly what I hear from people when I visit...people who are lawyers and doctors, otherwise upstanding citizens saying "I don't pay my fines...they can come and chase me for it"....they are simply taking advantage of the general feeling against the govt who may be corrupt in many other ways.
The sense here is that the argument is not so much about the tolls , the corruption etc..."but how can we avoid paying this toll" and "how can we force the govt to keep building us roads for free"...and at the same time criticise them for lack of economic management.

Over here if you don't pay fines they impound your assets...keep doing it you front up to court and may get some 'time to yourself' to think about your attitude.

No one is forced to have an E-tag as far as I can see, but it is a PITB to not have one, just like here so everybody gets one and gets on with life because of the ease it provides despite them keeping a float of $50 for each person.
If you drive without one and do not pay- there are easy ways of doing so online, on phone or adding to another tag- then you get a demand plus a little admin fee to encourage you next time...do it repeatedly and yes, stuff get impounded etc...because the reality is that it is a criminal offence to take something for nothing..here and in SA as well....

...but in SA, even to Lawyers and Doctors...no they don't have to pay...imagine not paying them.

That attitude actually saddens me...I see us as having kept going and 'grown up' out of that society, and that sort of anarchist attitude ..."it is their fault not mine" type of pity, is what contributes to keeping you back.

Good luck with the future....and to fighting your next anarchist battle towards permanent 3rd world status.
 
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Did you even read the links provided?
Seems not.

When it suits the ANC, when they want to loot the people, then we have to be like Australia. But when they want free hand outs we are African.


Yes I want our crime rate to be that of Australia, I want bee to go away like Australia, I want the rand to increase value to be the same as Australia, I want our hospitals and schools to be like Australia.. And before that happens I'm not buying an etag


It is not about free farking roads, but if you read you would know that.
 
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I wonder if they planned to start today to co-incide with the school holidays. So that the roads appear to quieter than the norm.
 
OzzieCapie said:
From closed thread:

.

Why not....I have just showed that from same revenue sources, the Aussies collect at least $20B or R200B more...yet we can't fund our roads and new highways and upgrades are tolled. Why do you expect SA to be able to make magic from so little revenue?

and...

...and as I poinetd out before, an upgrade by a private company on 10km of extra lane in Sydney cost $600M...that is $60M/km ...a private company that would have doenits best to cut costs...oh , I shouldn't compare.

The feeling I get from the threads and the advice given is exactly what I hear from people when I visit...people who are lawyers and doctors, otherwise upstanding citizens saying "I don't pay my fines...they can come and chase me for it"....they are simply taking advantage of the general feeling against the govt who may be corrupt in many other ways.
The sense here is that the argument is not so much about the tolls , the corruption etc..."but how can we avoid paying this toll" and "how can we force the govt to keep building us roads for free"...and at the same time criticise them for lack of economic management.

Over here if you don't pay fines they impound your assets...keep doing it you front up to court and may get some 'time to yourself' to think about your attitude.

No one is forced to have an E-tag as far as I can see, but it is a PITB to not have one, just like here so everybody gets one and gets on with life because of the ease it provides despite them keeping a float of $50 for each person.
If you drive without one and do not pay- there are easy ways of doing so online, on phone or adding to another tag- then you get a demand plus a little admin fee to encourage you next time...do it repeatedly and yes, stuff get impounded etc...because the reality is that it is a criminal offence to take something for nothing..here and in SA as well....

...but in SA, even to Lawyers and Doctors...no they don't have to pay...imagine not paying them.

That attitude actually saddens me...I see us as having kept going and 'grown up' out of that society, and that sort of anarchist attitude ..."it is their fault not mine" type of pity, is what contributes to keeping you back.

Good luck with the future....and to fighting your next anarchist battle towards permanent 3rd world status.
Click to expand...

No offense. But I recognize your type from lots of work with expats from places like Vancouver, Sydney and Denver. And I'll tell you what I inevitably end up telling them. Shut up and stay over there, thanks.
 
Ozzie where do you live? I was wondering if you would like to join my dream world?
 
OzzieCapie said:
From closed thread:

..and as I poinetd out before, an upgrade by a private company on 10km of extra lane in Sydney cost $600M...that is $60M/km ...a private company that would have doenits best to cut costs...oh , I shouldn't compare.

Good luck with the future....and to fighting your next anarchist battle towards permanent 3rd world status.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to this? http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/million-to-widen-the-m5-sydneys-slowest-motorway/story-e6freuzi-1226227106825

and....your passing comment in your final sentence leaves me to believe that you have ulterior interests with this Tolling system - your heightened emotion in a somewhat ''trivial-to-you-matter'' is a dead give-away. Serious question, do you have family or friends invested in Kapsch, SA Government or Sanral?
 
So I saw around 5 cars on the highway this morning with tags. Who else used the highways today?
 
Now that the system is running they should be able to provide stats on what percentage of traffic under the gantries is registered. Of course, the fact they they won't do this means that the figures are obviously embarrassing. What are the chances of getting valid data with a PAIA request?
 
OzzieCapie said:
From closed thread:

.

Why not....I have just showed that from same revenue sources, the Aussies collect at least $20B or R200B more...yet we can't fund our roads and new highways and upgrades are tolled. Why do you expect SA to be able to make magic from so little revenue?

...
Click to expand...

What you fail to realise is this was forced on citizens without their consent or input. If we allow this, what is next?

Government is for the people, they are the stakeholders ultimately.
 
OzzieCapie said:
Why not....I have just showed that from same revenue sources, the Aussies collect at least $20B or R200B more...yet we can't fund our roads and new highways and upgrades are tolled. Why do you expect SA to be able to make magic from so little revenue?
Click to expand...

Australia is 6 times the size of SA... Obviously it needs more revenue to maintain its roads because it has more roads (one would think this is obvious, but you like being disingenuous, even though you berate other people for doing the dame). So lets even the playing field - they get ±R265 bil total right? Divide by 6, thats roughly R45 bil for the same area as SA. So why does SA need almost twice the money of Aus? You need to think about your arguments a little bit, especially before you start throwing around drivel like this:

Good luck with the future....and to fighting your next anarchist battle towards permanent 3rd world status.
Click to expand...

Plus, as another poster stated, its the long open roads that are tolled in Aus, not inner city routes.
 
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:wtf: Just goes to show you that you have no cooking clue what you are talking about. We did not say we want the roads for free. The current method will not work for us.

OzzieCapie said:
From closed thread:
...snip...
Click to expand...
 
OzzieCapie said:
From closed thread:

Why not....I have just showed that from same revenue sources, the Aussies collect at least $20B or R200B more...yet we can't fund our roads and new highways and upgrades are tolled. Why do you expect SA to be able to make magic from so little revenue?

and...
Click to expand...

There are way to many differences between the countries so a parallel comparison is not right.

For starters:

How many road users do you have on those roads, in what income bracket does most of those road users fall?
You can look further at things like the number of people unemployed and or those in the lower middle class who can hardly afford to keep their cars on the road. The demographics are just way to different.

As others have said, we are not against paying for the roads, that is a given. What we are against is the way in which this has been done. There are other ways which would have been far more cost effective and which would have resulted in larger revenue streams over time than the current model where more than half of the money will never be ploughed back into the maintenance of the roads.

So we are not against the paying aspect but we are against the paying three times for the same thing.
 
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Gautengers wake up to tolled highways

Gauteng road users woke up to tolled highways on Tuesday morning after the controversial project finally kicked in after midnight.

But this does not seem to be the end of the road for the anti-tolling lobbyists.

Tuesday will see at least two anti-tolling media briefings -- the Congress of SA Trade Unions in Gauteng, which has been protesting against the project to "irritate politicians", was scheduled to address the media on Tuesday.

The opposition Democratic Alliance also promised to unveil the "next phase" of the political party's anti-tolls campaign on Tuesday.

The Freedom Front Plus on Monday lost a last-ditch effort to put a halt to the project, that could see frequent users spend up to R450 per month. Church leaders vowed on Monday that they would not pay toll fees, and called on others to do the same.

The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) continued to urge motorists to refrain from buying e-tags.

"There is no law that requires road users to buy an e-tag or register with Sanral in order to use Gauteng's freeways," said Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage.

E-tolls have dominated headlines several times this year, with most media houses covering the opposition to the new electronic tolling system, according to Media Tenor SA.

Analysis conducted by the media research company showed that stories on e-tolls made up 40 percent of coverage on transport-related issues in Gauteng.

The result of the analysis was based on 3304 statements on e-tolls in the print media and on television news programmes from January 1 to October 30 this year.


Source : Sapa /nsm/ks/mr
Date : 03 Dec 2013 02:08
 
Fsuck ETOLLS!

I went to work normal route this morning, gave the gantries the finger as I drove through...

Did anyone hear the interview with Nazeer Ali yesterday afternoon on 702?

He claims out of the 1 million toll road users in gauteng 80% or 800 000 has already bought an E-tag and thus they expect a very high rate of compliance.

I am not sure what this oke is smoking, but I drive on the N1 & M1 every single day, and I dont see 8 out 10 cars fitted with an E-tag?! More like 2 out of 10...
 
702 radio apparently commissioned a snap survey by Ask Africa. Seems only 1 in 10 have registered. You have to love the spin, though - the fencesitters at 702 word it as "9 out of 10 motorists have left it to the last minute to register" - what that actually means is 90% of motorists have defied the system and refused to register. Hooray! This will fail much faster than Portugal's system.
 
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