frogfoot wifi hotspot

HaltAndCatchFire

HaltAndCatchFire

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saw this on the homepage a banner add: http://www.frogfoot.com/consumer-services/wifi-hotspot/

Is this thing legal? It seams that they are "allowing" you to share your adsl over wifi, indirectly making you a wisp? I am not clued up on the leagality of such things but it seams to me that it is illegal to provide internet over a wifi connection for a profit? Or am I wrong?

The reason I am asking is I think it looks like a good idea, nice product good marketing... What is the difference between this and getting a 4mb line with an uncapped account and charging people in your area for access?

Again I am not criticising this I just want to know if it is legal, if so it should be legal for me to "re-sell" my ADSL to the neighbours, shouldn't it?
 
At a glance the offer seems kind of doable, but thats at a glance - running around at the office at the moment.

The legality of it all I dunno - perhaps dominic or someone more informed would like to touch on the matter.
 
Shake&Bake said:
At a glance the offer seems kind of doable, but thats at a glance - running around at the office at the moment.

The legality of it all I dunno - perhaps dominic or someone more informed would like to touch on the matter.
Click to expand...

Yes, from what i have seen, also haven't had time to look into the details, they look very organised and sound, don't think they would have a product that is illegal, would they? It acctually looks like a very nice company.

But if it is legal I would like to get my hands on some of their offerings, very innovative. If someone from frogfoot reads this I love your site's design! kudos for a job well done!

But regarding the issue at hand I would still like to know it it is legal for someone to share their adsl line over wifi for a profit, and if not how does this differ from the frogfoot product?
 
there is not really a clear answer in the absence of ICASA finalising various regulations - particularly the licence exemption ones...

but consider that
- you do not require licensing to run a hotspot
- resale is licence exempt
- there is no restriction on signal in an unlicensed band crossing a public boundary as long as the applicable EIRP limits are respected
 
dominic said:
there is not really a clear answer in the absence of ICASA finalising various regulations - particularly the licence exemption ones...

but consider that
- you do not require licensing to run a hotspot
- resale is licence exempt
- there is no restriction on signal in an unlicensed band crossing a public boundary as long as the applicable EIRP limits are respected
Click to expand...

Okay, so put in language a developer with no legal background except maybe for the traffic fines, I had to appear in court, to get "squashed". Does this mean it is legal? the short of it? Sorry for my ignorance and lack of expertise. :)

Will me sharing my adsl with neighbours be seen as providing a hotspot an thus doing it like any other place even the airport and thus within the law?
 
According to LAW you are not allowed to send any wifi signal across a public road..
this allows you to send it.. and potentially re sell your bandwidth /?:confused::confused::confused:
 
Anthropoid said:
According to LAW you are not allowed to send any wifi signal across a public road..
Click to expand...

that is not a correct statement since 19 July 2006 (and i do have a fairly clear idea of what i am on about ;) )

as stated above - there is no real clarity until final regs are published but i do not regard this as being illegal
 
That is how I had it as well but I do know there where some de-regulation some time back and 2.4 being a unlicensed band or something but the resale is the grey area for me...
 
dominic said:
that is not a correct statement since 19 July 2006 (and i do have a fairly clear idea of what i am on about ;) )

as stated above - there is no real clarity until final regs are published but i do not regard this as being illegal
Click to expand...

Cool thanks allot. At least I have some clarity now, i don't want to share my adsl not even for profit at the moment think it is going to make unwanted PT for me to manage it all...
 
Damn Dominic you beat me too it.

Reminds me of a post of mine from about 2 years back (if I had the time or patience to go find it).

Umm, Anthropod - get connected bru. Public boundaries stopped being relevant for wireless LANS on 24 March 2004 and were finally killed (as Dom has correctly indicated) on 19 July 2005.:eek:

Let's hope that unlike our Communications Minister you are not longing for the bad old days :sick:
 
dominic said:
that is not a correct statement since 19 July 2006 (and i do have a fairly clear idea of what i am on about ;) )
Click to expand...
I cannot quote anything to say the contrary is true.. but where you get that info from ?
:confused:
Also... you say something about the EIRP.. what If I say STUFF the EIRP - I want to be able to beam this across town - and sell out...
 
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I am going wholesale as from next week then
Will be selling at MAD prices
All can go to my new site soon..
FLIP - I never new that!!
dammit.. this means that I could have been selling my uncapped ...
DAMN you internetlessness
 
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Anthropoid said:
I am going wholesale as from next week then
Will be selling at MAD prices
All can go to my new site soon..
FLIP - I never kewn that!!
dammit.. this means that I could have been selling my uncapped ...
DAMN you internetlessness
Click to expand...

Hold your horses Jim, I am as of yet unsure about the legality of reselling your internet connection without being a registered VANS or isp... that is what i wanted to know, maybe wait for the legal guys to come to our aid...
 
except for the bits about
- self-provision: can you or can't you roll out your own radio network (and if you do some service licensing would be a hell fo a good idea)
- STUFF the EIRP is not a statement destined to go down well in the criminal courts

:)

its really not a very simple area...
 
Which basically can mean that if they do not explicitly against something .. we can just as well say they condone it silently.. woot.?
I believe frogfoot are treading dangerous and unexplored ground here..
 
Ha ha

mike@
Legal Expert
Click to expand...

rpm bestowed that on me. Legal ass is more like it.

BUT the Electronic Communications Act of 2005 become effective on 19 July 2006 and removed the notion of crossing a public boundary from our telecommunications (oops electronic communications) lexicon :D now that is a nice legal sounding term.

Until ICASA finalise the licence exemption regulations we are still working with the 2004 exemptions, but a couple of things are clear:

  • Resale does not require a licence
  • Power limits must be respected - failure to do so could result in a visit from ICASA inspectors and complaints from a certain wireless (alleged) broadband provider
  • Equipment must be type approved

From the 2004 exemptions:

"Wireless spread spectrum Local Area Networks (LAN's); used for short distance on single sites e.g. in an office complex in the 2, 4-2, 5 GHz (ISM) band. The standard to be utilised for such systems in this band shall be ETS 300328 or an equivalent standard. In particular, RF power requirements shall be in accordance with the standards mentioned which are broadly as follows: The maximum effective isotropic radiated power is defined as the total power of the transmitter which is - 10 dBW(100 mW). The peak power density is defined as the highest instantaneous level of power in Wafts per Hertz generated by the transmitter within the power envelope. This shall be - 10 dBW (100 mW) per 100 kHz EIRP for equipment using Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) modulation and -20 dBW (10 mW) per MHz EIRP for other modulation types. The following conditions are applicable:

(a) Only equipment which has been type approved by ICASA may be used. Such type approval shall require
compliance with the Radio Regulations and the standard stipulated above

(b) No interference may be caused to users of other ISM equipment within the band or to other radio users outside
the band.

(c) No complaints of interference to spread spectrum systems will be investigated.

(d) LAN's shall be confined to the same premises/buildings.

Wireless LAN's used for short distance, in the following other ISM bands, namely 433,050-434,790 MHz and 5725-
5875 GHz for use on single sites e.g. in an office complex. Spread spectrum/wide band standards other than ETS 300328 will be considered within these bands in accordance with the general principles listed in (4) for the 2,4-2,5 GHz ISM band, especially with regard to power requirements."

Yet they do not define "sites" or "premises". So any reasonable definition will IMHO prevail. So neighbours - YES. Across town - NO until the new exemptions are finalised.
 
Umm (again)

Frogfoot have
some service licensing
Click to expand...

I think neither dangerous nor unexplored.

Similar hotspots are available the world over.
 
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