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Question of the Day: What's the most interesting small town you've visited in South Africa?
Still Virgin?
- Thread starter rpm
- Start date
supersunbird
Honorary Master
Real quality consumers on that 3G-less network they are piggy backing on? I dont think so! I wouldn't consider Virgin Mobile in at all in this stage, but I do love my Virgin Money.
mancombseepgood
Executive Member
Lol
Branson has tried and failed in two departments so far... I think he hasn't thrown his full weight behind it cos he has more savvy than to p into the wind. He is wealthy for a reason y'know. By failed I mean to bring down prices. I believe VM is leagues ahead of the competition, but that's a no brainer to beat. Telecoms is the SA government's baby... they will do whatever they can to keep Telkom at the top as they have proved thus far. Even if he lays fibre across the country, they will make him rent the last mile from telkom. Satellite? Uh, maybe Richie owns one or two?
Branson has tried and failed in two departments so far... I think he hasn't thrown his full weight behind it cos he has more savvy than to p into the wind. He is wealthy for a reason y'know. By failed I mean to bring down prices. I believe VM is leagues ahead of the competition, but that's a no brainer to beat. Telecoms is the SA government's baby... they will do whatever they can to keep Telkom at the top as they have proved thus far. Even if he lays fibre across the country, they will make him rent the last mile from telkom. Satellite? Uh, maybe Richie owns one or two?
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Abe
Expert Member
While 3G is probably part of the problem, the whole cell phone market here is messed up. People will sell their soul monthly for a nice phone. VM cottened on to that a bit late. Our VM bill is cheaper for 2 phones then it was for 1 MTN contract and they are used a lot. I would not switch to anyone else for mobile calls.
pkid
Expert Member
Why should they even bother? VM does not cut into their business at all and is no threat...
I was with VM. I hated it. The network sucks and the call center staff were so incompetent that it gave me heartburn. I ended up porting back to MTN. Now for R230 a month in total I am using my phone much more than I was with VM where my bill was R300 a month with no phone or 3G
And before anyone mentions their free SMS campaign when I was using them it wasn't extended to existing customers...
Abe
Expert Member
Thats strange. On both of our contracts we got a free phone and our bill is much cheaper. I suppose it depends on your calling habits. Most of our calls are during the day whereas yours may be at night where MTN/VC have off peak rates and VM does not.
pkid
Expert Member
AirWolf
Honorary Master
IMO Virgin partnered with the wrong network - VM&VC would have been a killer combo 
.
.mancombseepgood
Executive Member
IMO Virgin partnered with the wrong network - VM&VC would have been a killer combo
But VC would be willing? Pfffft.
Say what
If he had said 'distribution network' - meaning Telkodemonopolies then it might have made some sense, maybe he means the GSM [2.xG] radio networks, i.e. Vodacom and MTN and CellC...?
Ok, that makes sense and I agree, Virgin basically chose the wrong companies to partner with: CellC is pathetic and its management doesn't know what it is doing; and ABSA has the highest bank charges - not exactly formulas for success IMO.
supersunbird
Honorary Master
Say what
If he had said 'distribution network' - meaning Telkodemonopolies then it might have made some sense, maybe he means the GSM [2.xG] radio networks, i.e. Vodacom and MTN and CellC...?Ok, that makes sense and I agree, Virgin basically chose the wrong companies to partner with: CellC is pathetic and its management doesn't know what it is doing; and ABSA has the highest bank charges - not exactly formulas for success IMO.
So what does it matter that ABSA has the highest bank charges? Virgin Money is still cheap...
pkid
Expert Member
I have been using Virgin Money for almost 2 years. It has been an okay experience. I think that in order to compete they need to offer more than just a credit card...
Assuming you read the article, Virgin Money's partnership with ABSA was mentioned, the fact that Virgin Money's presence in the financial services sector has not brought about the promised reduction in bank charges, was also mentioned. Virgin Money might be cheap, but that was not what I was commenting on.
I will add that while I think Virgin SA made some bad partner decisions in the form of CellC and ABSA, and while Virgin Mobile SA and Virgin Money SA are not the roaring successes that Virgin Mobile and Virgin Money are in other countries, from a consumer point of view they do add some level of competition, where competition is sorely needed.
I prefer to sit on 'the fence' when everyone decides whether Virgin Mobile SA and Virgin Money SA have made a difference or not.
ads
Senior Member
Quite apart from the obvious flaws of judgement, particularly in the telecoms sector, I suspect the real problem with Virgin in South Africa is a brand positioning problem.
Whilst Virgin is certainly a show-off brand, not unlike Nike (probably it's only strong attribute in the South African market), it is perceived very differently in South Africa than in its home market, the UK.
In the UK, it's an "everyman" brand, the upstart that challenges convention, and challenges large incumbents. It's a brand that aims to provide what people really want, and breaks rules to do so. Low cost, high value, but really cool.
Unfortunately, in South Africa, it is these very attributes that undermine its success. It's seen as a "British", or "global" brand, a different kind of show-off. Anyone who's spent any real time in the UK will know that there is no particular reason to want to be like the "everyman" there. In fact, we can pride ourselves on being different. Who would want to be a soccer hooligan and a Virgin Mobile user (for which the demographic overlap is probably very high in the UK)?
The net effect is that Virgin mostly bypasses the real "everyman" sector in South Africa - this space is filled by Cell C, and even by Vodacom. Instead (and you can see this in its own marketing), it's focused on a higher income demographic that wants to be seen to be using Virgin, and is actually prepared to pay for the privilege (perhaps not in a relative sense, but certainly in an absolute sense). This is out of line with its true "everyman" brand positioning.
Just think about the brand's history in South Africa, and draw the obvious comparisons - how many cost-conscious, cool, young cell phone users fly on Virgin Atlantic, ever? How many actually use Virgin Active? How many have ever seen a Virgin Megastore? People exposed to the brand previously in South Africa are at the very top of the market. In effect, those who are loyal to Virgin in South Africa are mostly "wannabe British", who think it's cool to be like them - sounds offensive, but you get the idea.
The more it tries to use its UK marketing campaigns, and to appear cosmopolitan, the more it seems "foreign" to the very South Africans it should be targeting, and the more "exclusive" it gets.
My limited experience of Virgin Mobile South Africa (business to business, not as a customer) is that it's driven (the leadership, not the staff) by somewhat arrogant, jumped-up English "everymen", who believe that they are bringing something special to a former colony. There's no South African feel about it, and there seems to be little of Richard Branson's humility and passion. It does seem that his lack on direct involvement in this business has moved it quite far from what Virgin is really about.
I am actually a Virgin Mobile UK user, but only because they're my preferred brand when I visit the UK - rates are good, service is good, and their prepaid SIMs stay active long enough between trips. Yet I cannot bring myself to identify with Virgin Mobile South Africa - which suggests that the two brands are really quite different.
Whilst Virgin is certainly a show-off brand, not unlike Nike (probably it's only strong attribute in the South African market), it is perceived very differently in South Africa than in its home market, the UK.
In the UK, it's an "everyman" brand, the upstart that challenges convention, and challenges large incumbents. It's a brand that aims to provide what people really want, and breaks rules to do so. Low cost, high value, but really cool.
Unfortunately, in South Africa, it is these very attributes that undermine its success. It's seen as a "British", or "global" brand, a different kind of show-off. Anyone who's spent any real time in the UK will know that there is no particular reason to want to be like the "everyman" there. In fact, we can pride ourselves on being different. Who would want to be a soccer hooligan and a Virgin Mobile user (for which the demographic overlap is probably very high in the UK)?
The net effect is that Virgin mostly bypasses the real "everyman" sector in South Africa - this space is filled by Cell C, and even by Vodacom. Instead (and you can see this in its own marketing), it's focused on a higher income demographic that wants to be seen to be using Virgin, and is actually prepared to pay for the privilege (perhaps not in a relative sense, but certainly in an absolute sense). This is out of line with its true "everyman" brand positioning.
Just think about the brand's history in South Africa, and draw the obvious comparisons - how many cost-conscious, cool, young cell phone users fly on Virgin Atlantic, ever? How many actually use Virgin Active? How many have ever seen a Virgin Megastore? People exposed to the brand previously in South Africa are at the very top of the market. In effect, those who are loyal to Virgin in South Africa are mostly "wannabe British", who think it's cool to be like them - sounds offensive, but you get the idea.
The more it tries to use its UK marketing campaigns, and to appear cosmopolitan, the more it seems "foreign" to the very South Africans it should be targeting, and the more "exclusive" it gets.
My limited experience of Virgin Mobile South Africa (business to business, not as a customer) is that it's driven (the leadership, not the staff) by somewhat arrogant, jumped-up English "everymen", who believe that they are bringing something special to a former colony. There's no South African feel about it, and there seems to be little of Richard Branson's humility and passion. It does seem that his lack on direct involvement in this business has moved it quite far from what Virgin is really about.
I am actually a Virgin Mobile UK user, but only because they're my preferred brand when I visit the UK - rates are good, service is good, and their prepaid SIMs stay active long enough between trips. Yet I cannot bring myself to identify with Virgin Mobile South Africa - which suggests that the two brands are really quite different.
I bought a Virgin SIM card as soon as they launched here. I was content for two weeks, but soon I started to miss Vodacom. The two main factors behind me leaving them was that there was a lack of 3G, but more importantly, Cell C's network sucks big time. I had a 1 bar signal wherever I went. This wasn't only me, but two friends too. If Virgin were piggy-backing on Vodacom I wouldn't mind using them.
AirWolf
Honorary Master
AFAIK CellC is supposedly using its own [limited coverage] network in urban areas, and only roams on Vodacom's network in rural areas - something to do with the roaming agreement - that CellC was supposed to rollout its own urban network & have coverage in place in urban areas a lot faster than the reality.That's Cell C's GPRS.
Crusader
Executive Member
While I can't comment on Virgin Mobile, Virgin Money definitely knocks the socks off any offering any of the big 4 banks have. The problem with Virgin Money is that they are essentially only targeting the higher income groups. If they can expand their offerings to provide a "Savings account" and offer the same interest they do for positive credit card balances then the other banks will definitely have some catching up to do.
As it is, it's pretty remarkable that anyone earning more than R5k a month still uses a CC from any other bank.
As it is, it's pretty remarkable that anyone earning more than R5k a month still uses a CC from any other bank.
pkid
Expert Member
I have never missed a payment and earn a lot more now than I did when I got my VM card. My credit rating is fine and Standard Bank are happy. Despite all of this VM carry on saying they will give me a credit limit increase but they never do.
Standard Bank give me 5 times the limit on my Cheque card. And that is why more people don't use them...
Avenue
Expert Member
Virgin mobile hasnt correctly judged the SA market-for example in the beginning they have this huge campaign telling us that we don't get locked into a contract, but I am yet to meet someone who cares whether they are in a contract or not. I for one like having a contract, there are certainly a number of benefits that come with having one, for example I was paying R70 a month through cell C, for that I'm not only paying off a phone (Contrary to the popular belief of their website, I am under no delusion that I am getting the phone for free), but I also receive 100 minutes of talk time every month, which I dont receive with Virgin... Based on their call charges and the cost of purchasing a new phone, I would have to pay a minimum of R79 a month for the phone, and a further R155-R235 a month for the 100 minutes that I would normally receive free from vodacom, cell c or mtn.
So in other words I am paying roughly an extra R200 a month for the privilege of being able to end my contract whenever I want... and to be honest, I cannot think of one single reason why I would ever want to cancel my contract prematurely anyway...... so until they do their homework and give the SA market what they actually want-low costs, good service (I cant stress this enough, the 5 people I know who for example had cell c contracts all had money illegally taken out their account, and had to fight to get it back)- so good service and everything else people mentioned on this website... when I challenged virgin on the no contract lock in policy they gave me a wonderful alternative- pay 199 a month and for that I get a phone and an unbelievable R15 a month airtime- come on!!!!
So in other words I am paying roughly an extra R200 a month for the privilege of being able to end my contract whenever I want... and to be honest, I cannot think of one single reason why I would ever want to cancel my contract prematurely anyway...... so until they do their homework and give the SA market what they actually want-low costs, good service (I cant stress this enough, the 5 people I know who for example had cell c contracts all had money illegally taken out their account, and had to fight to get it back)- so good service and everything else people mentioned on this website... when I challenged virgin on the no contract lock in policy they gave me a wonderful alternative- pay 199 a month and for that I get a phone and an unbelievable R15 a month airtime- come on!!!!