ICASA-Telkom-MyADSL meeting

rpm

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Hi folks

As mentioned in the previous post, various issues regarding the provisioning of ADSL by Telkom in relation to the ADSL regulations were discussed. Telkom told MyADSL and ICASA that they will be in full compliance with the regulation by the end of November 2007, and some of the discussions focused on interim solutions …

Here is a run-down of the discussions:

Local capping:

MyADSL contended that local bandwidth shall not be capped according to the regulation and that Telkom does in fact cap local bandwidth. TelkomInternet said that they do not cap users who reach their monthly allowance, but allow access until they reach a ‘monthly threshold’, after which they will have unlimited access to the Telkom website, the four banking websites for Internet banking and email. Telkom said that ISPs cap and not them.

MyADSL suggested that an interim solution may be to allow for 30 GB local bandwidth after reaching the monthly cap, and also to allow access to a wider variety of local sites like News24, IOL, MyADSL etc. after being capped. Telkom did not accept the idea, and suggested that they will implement a solution if it benefits 80% of their client base. MyADSL could not agree to this for various reasons, including that we have no control over what is considered beneficial to the customer base etc.

The parties agreed to discuss the issue further through the CCC (Consumer Complaints Commission) to see if a compromise could be reached.

Port prioritization

MyADSL said that Telkom currently prioritizes traffic and is hence in non-compliance with the regulations. Telkom said that they feel that they are complying with the regulations, and that it is not feasible for them not to prioritize traffic. Their reading of the ADSL regulations is that they are not allowed to impose port prioritization on consumers and since they offer both a shaped and an unshaped option they are not imposing this condition on customers.

This issue remained unresolved and after receiving complaints from consumers the issue will be referred to the CCC.

Guarantees

MyADSL said that Telkom does not give any guarantees on their ADSL service. Telkom said that they guarantee the speed of the access portion (from the client to the DSLAM) but that they can not give any guarantees beyond that point.

This issue remained unresolved and after receiving complaints from consumers the issue will be referred to the CCC.

Service Level Agreements

MyADSL said that Telkom did not provide users with any SLA’s despite this being a requirement of the ICASA regulations. Telkom said that they consider their terms and conditions to be an SLA, but that they will have an ADSL SLA ready by the end of the month. ICASA has prepared a draft SLA of their own, and the two will be ‘matched’ to ensure a quality document. ICASA stressed that the SLA agreement will not simply be a matter of formulating a document which consumers will then have to accept, the Regulator would have a hand in the conditions within the SLA as it affect ISPs and the SNO as well.

This document will be released to consumers as soon as the ICASA council approve it.


Installation times & Fault repair times

MyADSL said that many members are complaining about installation times longer than 30 days. Telkom said that their current installation time is 23 working days, and ICASA confirmed that they received no complaints about this issue recently, and that all the old complaints have been resolved.

This issue therefore does not require any specific agreement between MyADSL and Telkom, and in the case where installations are not performed within the 30 day period the CCC should be contacted.

MyADSL also pointed out that fault resolution times are unacceptably long, but Telkom said that while they had severe storms and a lack of staff in December that most of these issues were resolved. ICASA said that fault resolution times should be 24 hours.

In the case where faults are not resolved in a timely fashion consumers are encouraged to contact the CCC.


24 Hour resets

MyADSL said that the regulations clearly state that there should be no periodic resets of the ADSL regulations which Telkom is in fact doing. Telkom said that this issue will be resolved by the end of November 2007.

While not entirely happy with the agreement, MyADSL said that it does not justify a CCC investigation as the process will most likely only finish after November 2007 which makes an official process fruitless. As long as Telkom sticks to the deadline of discontinuing periodic resets by November 2007 the issue is resolved.


Your feedback is most welcome. I will give details about how to complain and to whom to write as soon as I receive details from ICASA.

This was a rather long and tiresome meeting but still a positive step by ICASA bring some of the roleplayers together and trying to find solutions to some of the problems... Let’s hope these processes improve the provisioning of ADSL…
 
I grant full permission for anyone to kill me for saying this... but... "imminent" ...

Congrats to the MyADSL team for getting this far. You guys should be proud.
 
my take is that the meeting was a very constructive one indeed and I am appreciative of ICASA’s role in facilitating it. Just the holding of a meeting of this nature where Telkom are essentially being required to account for themselves to Myadsl and its constituency is MASSIVE progress (and something I am quite sure Telkom and it representatives resented bitterly).

The crucial disadvantage we are at is information asymmetry – the facts around SAT3 being a great example of this – and this meeting at the very least creates more knowledge and awareness + certainty as to the way forward.

Well done and thank you (that must have been a very uncomfortable and antagonistic meeting - tell the lady the myadsl community says you get a massage ;))
 
Thanks for the feedback rpm.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.... But after all these years of waiting since we first decided to go the ICASA route, we've actually achieved nothing.

Telkom think they are the law. They think they can twist the rules to suit themselves. I'm absolutely disgusted.

We want reasonably priced ADSL (for the average man on the street) which is unshaped and a decent sized international cap with NO local cap. Until then, we will NOT be satisfied.

TelkomInternet said that they do not cap users who reach their monthly allowance, but allow access until they reach a ‘monthly threshold’, after which they will have unlimited access to the Telkom website, the four banking websites for Internet banking and email.
You morons, this is STILL capping!

Telkom said that ISPs cap and not them.
FFS! I will say no more.

Telkom said that they feel that they are complying with the regulations, and that it is not feasible for them not to prioritize traffic. Their reading of the ADSL regulations is that they are not allowed to impose port prioritization on consumers and since they offer both a shaped and an unshaped option they are not imposing this condition on customers.
This is the most ludicrous bunch of cr@p I've read all year.

I really don't know what to think. I can't believe ICASA is allowing Telkom to disregard the already pathetic regulations. So much for being the public protector!!!
 
Well done RPM. If the major issues can be resolved short of court cases MYADSL will have made a groundbreaking achievement in dealing with Telkom.

I've no doubt that the SITA decision to go with Neotel has Telkom running scared as they finally realise how much bad will they have created and that the market could ditch them very quickly once given a choice.

It also sends a strong message to all the other players that they are going to have to provide an excellent service at competitive prices if they want to stay in the race.
 
Ya, shot for the feedback. Must have been hard not to get up and slap the Telkom reps through the face I am sure...

At least a communication channel has been started I guess...
 
The local cap thing is just so contrary to regulation.
1. the charging for it by including it in ur international cap
2. they now want to control what u can view..

uhm.. thats not good.. not supprised by answers to te important 2 questions.. port priority and local cap
 
Another thing......

We want local to be separate from international.

i.e. international runs off the cap , while LOCAL does NOT run off the cap at all.

Not local also running off cap and when cap kicks in we then have local only.

Local must not decrease cap at all , that means nothing at all. (vak it)

Have you got it Tlekom ???????

AVR
 
Thanks uncle RPM :)

Fantastic progress and you have the patience of a saint to have not beaten Telkom over the head with a big ol' stick.
 
Thanks RPM, looks like Telkom are still finding loopholes though unfortunately.

We want local to be separate from international.

i.e. international runs off the cap , while LOCAL does NOT run off the cap at all.

AFAIK that's not technically possible at the moment. Not saying it shouldn't be done though.
 
I get so infuriated when Telkom blames the ISPs for local capping. Surely the ISPs have to pay Telkom for the bandwidth, and therefore they cannot allow for uncapped local. Telkom forces them to do this, how can the blame not lie with Telkom!

Same goes for shaping, we have rediculously low caps, why is it then necesary to shape as well? I suppose Telkom will throw capacity at us, as an excuse.

Nonetheless it is a step in some kind of direction. Kudus to you RPM and the MyADSL team for grinding through, what sounds like a very frustrating meeting.
 
Spare a thought...

Thank you for the effort and report RPM. Your progress and achievements (and that of the MyBroadband-community) are remarkable!

I've always been inclined towards persuasion through discussion and consultation. (Has something to do with the "humane" treatment of the "enemy" I think...)

In lighter vein: Spare a thought for Telkom in general. Can you imagine the utter conflict and confusion individuals experience who have always done it their way, have always told others what to do without the benefit of ever having talked to others in a spirit of competitive co-operation?

Very steep the learning curve is…
 
Thanks for fighting the good fight. It's just a pity Telkom still manages to wriggle its way around our complaints so often. But this is a definite sign of progress.

Oh, and thanks to ICASA as well. Maybe things really are changing.
 
Some progress is good, even if it is all talk I suppose.

Thanks RPM, looks like Telkom are still finding loopholes though unfortunately.

I wonder if ICASA still has the original draft regulations lying around somewhere, which "accidentally" got transmutated/bastardised into our beautiful ADSL regs? :)

AFAIK that's not technically possible at the moment. Not saying it shouldn't be done though.

Well it seemed to be possible pre Nov 2005? :rolleyes:
 
What some of you fail to realise, perhaps due to extreme emotions around this subject, is that Telkom is completely separate from Telkom Internet. Telkom provide you with the copper line, the dslam, the edge router and IP network to connect to your ISP. This entire chain is just the access portion as in NOT capped in any way. ICASA regulates the access portion, not the ISP's. If you really want change in the ISP space (capping, contention ratios etc), then you need to lobby the ISP's and SAIX in particular, since they provide resale accounts for many other ISP's. You are not only barking up the wrong tree, you are in the wrong forest completely. Please stop complaining about Telkom and capping in the same arguments as it is old and is clearly NOT under regulation.

It is time to lobby SAIX and the ISP's, but i don't know who regulates them.
 
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