From http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2006/may/27/news.consumernews
Is your iPod one of the bad Apples?
For many, the rot has set in with the must-have music player. Phillip Inman looks at how complaints over durability are pushing at the margins of users' patience, DTI guidelines - and the law
Phillip Inman The Guardian, Saturday May 27 2006 Apple iPod owners love their sleek machines. That's when they work. When they don't, they enter a twilight world where they discover their prized music player is considered by its manufacturer as nothing more than a throwaway item.
It doesn't matter that iPod lovers can spend up to £300 on their gizmo. Apple operates on the basis that the iPod life expectancy is a year, and that's it.
Complain that your £200 or £300 could have bought a fridge or TV that would be expected to last five years or more, and a customer services assistant will explain that a one-year warranty is just that, and no more.
Last month Guardian Money explained how the Sale of Goods Act sets out a series of basic customer rights. These are fleshed out by guidelines from the Department of Trade & Industry. The key in all discussions with retailers, which are the first port of call, is that goods should last up to six years, depending on their cost and expected durability.
In the article we told how a reader took a broken ClickwheeI 40Gb iPod back to the Birmingham Apple Centre. Staff said the cost of repair would exceed the value of the £300 model and refused a free replacement. Arguments that iPods are designed to be portable and take a reasonable amount of wear and tear fell on deaf ears.
Which? - formerly the Consumers Association - says consumers should argue strongly with retailers. While the DTI guidelines do not define how long specific products should last, a survey by Which? of manufacturers into how long they believe electrical appliances should last (not including Apple) found that all reckoned five years or more.
Apple has sold more than 2m iPods in the UK and it would be unfair to expect all of them to work without any problems. But judging from the postbag at Guardian Money, while it's easy to fall in love with the design and ease of use of iPods, they can at times be highly temperamental.
The 40Gb Clickwheel, now discontinued, appears to have suffered more than its fair share of problems. Apple says not. Its response, however, captures the dilemma faced by customers offered an extended warranty. Either the product is robust and the rare failure can be absorbed by the seller, or there is a widespread reliability problem which the manufacturer should deal with.
Apple, like most other manufacturers, refuses to accept responsibility for repairs even when machines break down within weeks of expiry of the one-year warranty.
A spokesman says: "Apple takes complaints from customers very seriously and we are currently looking into the circumstances behind each individual case that you have raised and will respond to each customer with our findings in due course."
Each new iPod comes with one-year hardware service coverage. Customers can extend coverage for up to two years for £39. If the warranty has expired, Apple offers a repair service which includes a battery replacement at £49.
Elizabeth Mitchell of Leicester confronted the staff of Apple's Birmingham store. "Having read a Guardian Money article on consumer rights, I tried to get my 40Gb clickwheel iPod replaced, despite being three months out of warranty."
She quoted clauses from the Sale of Goods Act and guidelines from the DTI setting out how goods should last up to six years.
"After a quick and pleasant exchange, the assistant consulted the manager, who offered to replace my iPod with the same model. But I had to return another day as there were none in stock. Five days later, I went to collect my new iPod. I heard three people alongside me complaining of similar issues. One had an extended warranty - no problem. One was in warranty, and one was no longer covered. The latter of the three saw the manager, had a pretty good foot-stamping session and ended up paying half price for a new one. That was their best offer. Thanks to the Guardian for telling me how to get a free replacement."
By contrast Richard Mair of Southwick in West Sussex battled for a year with Apple, only to be left "with a wonderfully designed but horrifically expensive paperweight".
His £300 iPod broke inside the warranty period and was replaced. But the second machine broke within four months. To his surprise, it didn't come with its own one-year warranty and he was asked for £160 for repairs instead.
Karen Pettit of Leeds was also told it would cost £160 to fix her Clickwheel 40Gb iPod when it broke down eight weeks after the warranty expired.
"After a fruitless conversation I wrote a letter to the customer support centre only to be sent one back asking me to call them as they do not have any phones that can ring out. Eventually, I spoke to a lady who said she might have been able to do something had the warranty expired only two months ago instead of three (I don't really see what difference one more month makes). She said the only thing I could do would be to pay for repairs or buy a new unit."
David Harding of London, suffered a very similar episode to Pettit. "Once the free one-year warranty is up, without the far-too-expensive Apple Care Protection Plan, the company is just not interested."
Beware the clickwheels of misfortune
Cherry Howarth, 17, of Leighton Buzzard, reported her iPod was broken within the 12-month warranty period but was caught in a web of claim and counter-claim that lost her £108. On five separate occasions Apple promised to return the money, which it wrongly debited from her account as a deposit prior to repair, but so far the cheque has not turned up.
She says in January her 10-month-old iPod Shuffle stopped charging when plugged into her computer. "Apple said it would send me a new iPod Shuffle and when it arrived it would contain instructions on how to return the faulty one. However, they asked for my debit card details as insurance, in case I didn't return the faulty one."
The new iPod was lost in the post, but Apple demanded its deposit for the un-returned Shuffle. Cherry's mother emailed and rang Apple more than seven times and eventually received a replacement machine. "To be fair to Apple, they have sent me a new iPod Nano as a 'sorry' for their cock-up, however I still want my money back. I am a 17-year-old student and very hard up," says Cherry.
Paul Edwards of Kendal in Cumbria found that his battery packed up just outside the warranty period. "I contacted Apple, asked them to consider that electrical goods should last longer than a year as stated in Department of Trade & Industry guidelines and the Sale of Goods Act, and they have basically said no."
His clickwheel 40GB iPod began to play up after 15 months. "It started making funny noises and freezing. The screen would freeze and then the songs started freezing," he says.
"I contacted Apple, which told me about some software troubleshooting but said if it was a hardware problem then there was nothing they could do and I should buy another one.
"I tried to complain using their website but it's very difficult to do so. Eventually I found a route using Google and said I was prepared to appeal to the small claims court. Four days later someone got back to me. They explained my iPod was out of warranty and there was nothing they could do.
"They asked if I suffered problems while it was in warranty, because if I had they might take a different view - but I hadn't reported any so that was that. They said it was up to me whether I went to court or not."
At this point, Mr Edwards contacted Guardian Money and we took up his case. But Apple repeated the same message to Mr Edwards - that the machine is only expected to last one year and no more.
"I'm still prepared to go to court because it is unreasonable to say an expensive electronic product like an iPod should only last a year," he says.
The Clickwheel 40GB model, which has been the subject of many readers' letters to Guardian Money, has now been discontinued.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My experience with Apple and an Ipod - it looks great, works well, and until a few months ago I thought that Apple was the best.
Then my 4GB Ipod Nano died after about 16 months of moderate use, mainly in the Bose Sound system. After a few days of trying to restore it, without success, I thought, well thats okay, take it to the local Apple agent "Core" and get it fixed.
To summarise, the response I got was that "it is out of the warranty period and they do not fix Nano's, so they only thing I must do is buy a new one."
Apparently, after doing some research on internet, an Ipod has a life span of a few years.
Now, I find this unacceptable, and if this is correct then the public at large should know about this, because to buy an Ipod and write it off over a few years turns out to be an expensive exercise. In my case it has cost me R125 per month. And if I do not buy another one to use in my Bose, then it will have cost me R375 per month over the 16 month period. To me, that is expensive and never mind that I did the stupid thing of converting all my music into Apple format. Should have stuck to MP3.
I have told "Core" (Apple) that I am considering taking them to the small claims court as they are selling a product that either has a limited life span, and if so, they should disclose that when selling, or there is a latent defect.
All I wanted was for them to repair it, and I was prepaired to pay for the repair, so the least they should do is provide a facility to do repairs to Ipods.
So, the question is : Is Apple rotten to the "Core" ? no pun intended
Is your iPod one of the bad Apples?
For many, the rot has set in with the must-have music player. Phillip Inman looks at how complaints over durability are pushing at the margins of users' patience, DTI guidelines - and the law
Phillip Inman The Guardian, Saturday May 27 2006 Apple iPod owners love their sleek machines. That's when they work. When they don't, they enter a twilight world where they discover their prized music player is considered by its manufacturer as nothing more than a throwaway item.
It doesn't matter that iPod lovers can spend up to £300 on their gizmo. Apple operates on the basis that the iPod life expectancy is a year, and that's it.
Complain that your £200 or £300 could have bought a fridge or TV that would be expected to last five years or more, and a customer services assistant will explain that a one-year warranty is just that, and no more.
Last month Guardian Money explained how the Sale of Goods Act sets out a series of basic customer rights. These are fleshed out by guidelines from the Department of Trade & Industry. The key in all discussions with retailers, which are the first port of call, is that goods should last up to six years, depending on their cost and expected durability.
In the article we told how a reader took a broken ClickwheeI 40Gb iPod back to the Birmingham Apple Centre. Staff said the cost of repair would exceed the value of the £300 model and refused a free replacement. Arguments that iPods are designed to be portable and take a reasonable amount of wear and tear fell on deaf ears.
Which? - formerly the Consumers Association - says consumers should argue strongly with retailers. While the DTI guidelines do not define how long specific products should last, a survey by Which? of manufacturers into how long they believe electrical appliances should last (not including Apple) found that all reckoned five years or more.
Apple has sold more than 2m iPods in the UK and it would be unfair to expect all of them to work without any problems. But judging from the postbag at Guardian Money, while it's easy to fall in love with the design and ease of use of iPods, they can at times be highly temperamental.
The 40Gb Clickwheel, now discontinued, appears to have suffered more than its fair share of problems. Apple says not. Its response, however, captures the dilemma faced by customers offered an extended warranty. Either the product is robust and the rare failure can be absorbed by the seller, or there is a widespread reliability problem which the manufacturer should deal with.
Apple, like most other manufacturers, refuses to accept responsibility for repairs even when machines break down within weeks of expiry of the one-year warranty.
A spokesman says: "Apple takes complaints from customers very seriously and we are currently looking into the circumstances behind each individual case that you have raised and will respond to each customer with our findings in due course."
Each new iPod comes with one-year hardware service coverage. Customers can extend coverage for up to two years for £39. If the warranty has expired, Apple offers a repair service which includes a battery replacement at £49.
Elizabeth Mitchell of Leicester confronted the staff of Apple's Birmingham store. "Having read a Guardian Money article on consumer rights, I tried to get my 40Gb clickwheel iPod replaced, despite being three months out of warranty."
She quoted clauses from the Sale of Goods Act and guidelines from the DTI setting out how goods should last up to six years.
"After a quick and pleasant exchange, the assistant consulted the manager, who offered to replace my iPod with the same model. But I had to return another day as there were none in stock. Five days later, I went to collect my new iPod. I heard three people alongside me complaining of similar issues. One had an extended warranty - no problem. One was in warranty, and one was no longer covered. The latter of the three saw the manager, had a pretty good foot-stamping session and ended up paying half price for a new one. That was their best offer. Thanks to the Guardian for telling me how to get a free replacement."
By contrast Richard Mair of Southwick in West Sussex battled for a year with Apple, only to be left "with a wonderfully designed but horrifically expensive paperweight".
His £300 iPod broke inside the warranty period and was replaced. But the second machine broke within four months. To his surprise, it didn't come with its own one-year warranty and he was asked for £160 for repairs instead.
Karen Pettit of Leeds was also told it would cost £160 to fix her Clickwheel 40Gb iPod when it broke down eight weeks after the warranty expired.
"After a fruitless conversation I wrote a letter to the customer support centre only to be sent one back asking me to call them as they do not have any phones that can ring out. Eventually, I spoke to a lady who said she might have been able to do something had the warranty expired only two months ago instead of three (I don't really see what difference one more month makes). She said the only thing I could do would be to pay for repairs or buy a new unit."
David Harding of London, suffered a very similar episode to Pettit. "Once the free one-year warranty is up, without the far-too-expensive Apple Care Protection Plan, the company is just not interested."
Beware the clickwheels of misfortune
Cherry Howarth, 17, of Leighton Buzzard, reported her iPod was broken within the 12-month warranty period but was caught in a web of claim and counter-claim that lost her £108. On five separate occasions Apple promised to return the money, which it wrongly debited from her account as a deposit prior to repair, but so far the cheque has not turned up.
She says in January her 10-month-old iPod Shuffle stopped charging when plugged into her computer. "Apple said it would send me a new iPod Shuffle and when it arrived it would contain instructions on how to return the faulty one. However, they asked for my debit card details as insurance, in case I didn't return the faulty one."
The new iPod was lost in the post, but Apple demanded its deposit for the un-returned Shuffle. Cherry's mother emailed and rang Apple more than seven times and eventually received a replacement machine. "To be fair to Apple, they have sent me a new iPod Nano as a 'sorry' for their cock-up, however I still want my money back. I am a 17-year-old student and very hard up," says Cherry.
Paul Edwards of Kendal in Cumbria found that his battery packed up just outside the warranty period. "I contacted Apple, asked them to consider that electrical goods should last longer than a year as stated in Department of Trade & Industry guidelines and the Sale of Goods Act, and they have basically said no."
His clickwheel 40GB iPod began to play up after 15 months. "It started making funny noises and freezing. The screen would freeze and then the songs started freezing," he says.
"I contacted Apple, which told me about some software troubleshooting but said if it was a hardware problem then there was nothing they could do and I should buy another one.
"I tried to complain using their website but it's very difficult to do so. Eventually I found a route using Google and said I was prepared to appeal to the small claims court. Four days later someone got back to me. They explained my iPod was out of warranty and there was nothing they could do.
"They asked if I suffered problems while it was in warranty, because if I had they might take a different view - but I hadn't reported any so that was that. They said it was up to me whether I went to court or not."
At this point, Mr Edwards contacted Guardian Money and we took up his case. But Apple repeated the same message to Mr Edwards - that the machine is only expected to last one year and no more.
"I'm still prepared to go to court because it is unreasonable to say an expensive electronic product like an iPod should only last a year," he says.
The Clickwheel 40GB model, which has been the subject of many readers' letters to Guardian Money, has now been discontinued.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My experience with Apple and an Ipod - it looks great, works well, and until a few months ago I thought that Apple was the best.
Then my 4GB Ipod Nano died after about 16 months of moderate use, mainly in the Bose Sound system. After a few days of trying to restore it, without success, I thought, well thats okay, take it to the local Apple agent "Core" and get it fixed.
To summarise, the response I got was that "it is out of the warranty period and they do not fix Nano's, so they only thing I must do is buy a new one."
Apparently, after doing some research on internet, an Ipod has a life span of a few years.
Now, I find this unacceptable, and if this is correct then the public at large should know about this, because to buy an Ipod and write it off over a few years turns out to be an expensive exercise. In my case it has cost me R125 per month. And if I do not buy another one to use in my Bose, then it will have cost me R375 per month over the 16 month period. To me, that is expensive and never mind that I did the stupid thing of converting all my music into Apple format. Should have stuck to MP3.
I have told "Core" (Apple) that I am considering taking them to the small claims court as they are selling a product that either has a limited life span, and if so, they should disclose that when selling, or there is a latent defect.
All I wanted was for them to repair it, and I was prepaired to pay for the repair, so the least they should do is provide a facility to do repairs to Ipods.
So, the question is : Is Apple rotten to the "Core" ? no pun intended
iPod FTW