No. More children survive to become adults because of improvement in services (such as clean water, sewage, etc) and medical services (immunisation, preventative medicine etc)
Yes, but one can't live on bread alone. Just because one can say that there is food and water for the child, doesn't mean that the child should simply be foreced to live on these alone. The child also has rights, such as the right to fulcill his/her full potential and the right to be able to achieve happiness, the right to safety and adequate care, and these too also absolutely need to be fulfilled. As far as the current state of the world goes, we are very very far from this stage indeed.
but uneducated people have been having many children since the beginning. Note poor is not synoymous with uneducated. One can be poor and have a small family too but overall with inmprovement in socio-economic status families get smaller. Fascist measures such as forced abortion or sterilisation are not necessary.
Not really true and especially not so over the past hundred years. Education is one, Creativity(inventiveness and entrupneership), infrastructure and resources is another. And how long does this take? Centuries? They have been saying that about Africa for centuries and where are we today? Even so, it is still not best in nature to simply wait it out, time is also a massive factor in life, we want what is better and you are not putting this into consideration, rather that billions more have to suffer now for no apparent reason. And even in this nation, shack counts have more than doubled in the past five years, here's India (100 mn more in poverty):
http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-47791820100418
Not only are so many more people living in poverty, but in the nations where it's actually being decreased, the gap behind the intelligent and the uneducated is only but widening, would we really want to live in a world with so much dispersion. AIDS, SARS, H5N1, SwineFlu, etc.. only time until we've got one which we can't find a cure to, should we simply sit and wait for this to happen? and what if you're the poor child sitting in that little villedge and something of the sort happens would you be happy to die only for knowing that some other people on the planet aren't? is it oh too selfish to think this way, do only the other tribal cave people who are sheltered from the rest of the world and thus can contunie the human race count to you?
No, i don't think it's fair and i don't think it's healthy either. We simply want the best, ethics obviously included.
Forced abotions are not fascist at all. As i've said before a child does not 'belong' to the parent, but to themselves, and thus should be protected by state, just as those who will need to support this protection too, this leads to the parent having to be the responsible one.
Imagine we had said the same about china, what would China have looked like today if they had not gone the forced abortions root? So as they have and as poverty
The population, the environment, economy, safety should be look at as interlinked as they are interlinked, we should make sure that all of the factors are put into consideration.
Primary goal is liberal democracy. People have to have a reason to live for. Development cannot occur at the cost of human rights.
Again with this accusation based on thin air. And again, i'll repeat, forced abortions is NOT at the cost of human rights, exactly the contrary.
I agree with democracy, [OT] although i would i've got other ideas too, such as perhaps some kind of Diaspora setup or something of the like, perhaps Philosopher kings kind of democracy(like superdelegates in the US) may also be feasible, still thinking on those ideas. All don't need to go by this but it would be nice if the UN or a new organisation as such, call it the Secular/Objectivist world of nations, would setup something of the sort.
We are looking for the latter but not at cost to the former. If people want to have many children, they should be expected to pay for them and if they can't the state should provide. However, the state should not force any birth control methods on any
Really? so why should I sweat my bones dry in taxes and economic loss for the next street scum who has 8 children and can't even take care of themselves to begin with? Mine is mine, nobody has the right to take this from me, and no money does NOT fall out of the air and it's not really the government that has to pay for anything, it's the tax payer. Here you are sanctifiing mass theft on an massive scale. Cuba, russia ring a bell?
Rainforests have nothing to do with this. If we don't want Brazil to chop them down, we should pay them not to do it. They want to sell the wood and use the land for other means. So we need to convince them that it will be better to attract tourists and get special grants which they can use instead of chopping the trees down.
Really? remember the mass increase in food prices last year, the only thing that stopped it was to sacrifice so many other industries, industries which could have alleviated our dependence on oil, and thus, hypothetically speaking, the BP disaster could have been prevented, global warming too. And yes they do, it takes billions of years for many of those indiginious species to develop, and now they've got to be all left to dust? Much of today's medicines are found right there in those rainforests too. How would the world look like if we simply let go our concern for the envionment? Once the environment is gone, it's gone forever.
Africa has nothing to do with Catholicism. Large families have been here before Christ. Look at Italy, Poland, Catholic parts of Germany and at their population sizes - you won't find
large families because the people there are Catholic.
Really so this has nothing to do with telling people not to wear condoms? The catholic church really assumes that everyone is going to be responsible and marry, and obviously that homosexuals don't exist either?
Then there has to be an unequal standard of living. I'm not arguing that smaller populations are bad, I'm arguing only that forced birth control is WRONG and like all wrongs should never be implemented.
You have not argued that forced abortions are worng, you've simply stated your disapproval of it. What and where is your argument? You have still not proven to me that a child does not belong to a parant and that the greater society which has to rear the child too should not require the parant to be responsible too (above example).
Introducing fascist measures is not a way to achieve this.
Again, you haven't left an argument or some kind of reasoning, please stop clucking. This is nothing at all facist and parroting the word all the time would not show the justification for calling it as such.
Businesses are dictatorships. Unless you want to live in one, it's up to each person to decide how he will live.
No irrelavant. Again we have a criminal justice system too, stealing, abuse and negllect are obviously crimes too, one doesn't need to be called a dictator to achknowleadge it as such to try to prevent it. It is not a dictatorship and that word has no realavance here.
You're going too far here. I'm only arguing that we cannot force birth control on people. It should be free and available, and maybe incentives for small families should be offered but we should never impose birth control on anyone.
Insentives? So who should pay for them and who is to take care of the children whoes parants don't take the deal? Are they just to be left astray as 'basterds' for the rest of their lives?
We did not have forced birth control in Europe. Why should Africa have it? Are you suggesting Africans are not capable of achieving this themselves? Are they people or incompetents?
Again, people should not simply be looked upon as a lare statistic, people are indivuduals, and here in europe there are also children who are left behind and not able to climb the ladder. And yes i do think that i've read something about many/most european states performing eugenics(my agreement on this is limited) and forced abortions too, and these were in many of the liberal nations such as france and sweeden too. As to the current state of the EU, it's the only continent on the planet whose economy is falling backwards, the future does not look so bright for the EU. Compare with China
To add, what about Down-syndrome, tay saches or all the many serious genetic illnesses, to think that it costs R3 million to raise a child to 17, could one imagine how much it would cost for these disabled children? Do you have any idea of what it cost for many of these gentic disorders to have patients hospitalised for simply one day? Would it not then be better if we prevented this pre-birth and thus saved trillions and thus could rather improve the lives or the living(those who were born) instead?
