"A Game of Thrones" discussion thread

[Sinbad]

Dany is not dying unless its in childbirth.

This whole mad queen thing is totally misdirect. The mad queen is cersei not Dany.

Dani is sterile after the ****up with her first kid

 

[LazyLion]

He is a usurper by the very definition, regardless of his motivations or justifications.

View attachment 651748

The Baratheons could sit on that throne for 100-years and any Targaryen would have the right to press a claim.

If you are gonna use that line of reasoning, then the Targaryens were usurpers of the throne from the first men.

 

[Fulcrum29]

He is a usurper by the very definition, regardless of his motivations or justifications.

View attachment 651748

The Baratheons could sit on that throne for 100-years and any Targaryen would have the right to press a claim.

Yes, but you said,

Robert was a usurper, so the Baratheons have no legit claim to it and never have.

when the throne was indeed taken by force in the view of the rebellion and illegally in the view of the loyalists. To remind you Robert won Robert's Rebellion at the Battle of the Trident where Robert and prince Rhaegar met in single combat where Robert crushed Rhaegar by force. Everyone knows what happened in the aftermath.

House Baratheon had a legitimate claim and Robert succeeded Aerys on the Iron Throne which obviously wasn’t in favour of the loyalists, but of the Rebellion.

To quote the wiki on the books,

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Usurper

In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Robert's Rebellion is also known as the War of the Usurper - though it is generally called this by Targaryen loyalists.

 

[greg0205]

If you are gonna use that line of reasoning, then the Targaryens were usurpers of the throne from the first men.

Not really.

It’s called the seven kingdoms because, well, there were seven of them before Aegon got there

Aegon conquered the lot of them and unified Westeros under one throne.

 

[LazyLion]

Not really.

It’s called the seven kingdoms because, well, there were seven of them before Aegon got there

Aegon conquered the lot of them and unified Westeros under one throne.

Doesn't matter, he is a usurper.

 

[stefan9]

Dani is sterile after the ****up with her first kid

Only per the witch...

 

[greg0205]

Doesn't matter, he is a usurper.

If you’re happy to use conqueror and usurper interchangeably, sure.

I’d still argue that unifying the seven kingdoms makes Aegon more than just a seven-time-usurper though.

 

[Fulcrum29]

The Golden Company has one reason and its the reason they broke contract in the books.

They are loyal to the Blood of the Dragon.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Illyrio_Mopatis

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Golden_Company

As for Euron he is not loyal, he will anbandon Cersei the moment tides turn. He even told yarra so in the first epidose. Also foreshadowed by the iron bank advisder when he told cersei the iron fleet is loyal to euron not her.

This is the TV series, they are on their own track. Not to mention that Harry Strickland is a coward in the books, but the TV series have never eloborated on the Golden Company's history or important characters. Also knowing how rich their history is in the books. In the TV series there is no Bittersteel and they can't make him up on the spot as they go with the remaining episodes so no Blood of the Dragon then.

Strictly speaking, Harry Strickland should call retreat when he sees dragons in the books. I doubt that to be the case in the TV series.

The Golden Company is what they are in the TV series, sell swords who honours their contract.

 

[LazyLion]

If you’re happy to use conqueror and usurper interchangeably, sure.

I’d still argue that unifying the seven kingdoms makes Aegon more than just a seven-time-usurper though.

By your reasoning, anybody who takes the throne from someone else who is currently sitting on it, is a usurper. Doesn't matter how many kingdoms there were... there was throne there. And he took it.

 

[Fulcrum29]

If you’re happy to use conqueror and usurper interchangeably, sure.

I’d still argue that unifying the seven kingdoms makes Aegon more than just a seven-time-usurper though.

Terrorising or unifying?

 

[thestaggy]

Doesn't matter, he is a usurper.

No he isn't.

He established the Iron Throne and the previously independent kingdoms bent the knee, acknowledging Aegon as their king. The erstwhile kings relinquished their kingship and took up the titles of Lords Paramount.

 

[ScottulusMaximus]

Dany is not dying unless its in childbirth.

This whole mad queen thing is totally misdirect. The mad queen is cersei not Dany.

Dany is going to be killed by Jon.

 

[akescpt]

Dany is going to be killed by Jon.

With ecstasy no doubt...

 

[stefan9]

Dany is going to be killed by Jon.

You are going to be very very disappointed...

 

[greg0205]

By your reasoning, anybody who takes the throne from someone else who is currently sitting on it, is a usurper. Doesn't matter how many kingdoms there were... there was throne there. And he took it.

I think we’re at cross purposes here.

A usurper takes power illegally or by force like Robert did with his rebellion.

A conqueror uses force too, but the implication is a foreign invader... The Targaryens were Valyrians who invaded Westeros and conquered the continent.

The Baratheons were sworn to Aegon... but... 300 years Robert led a rebellion and won.

Sure, both take power by force, but there is a difference and it’s why Robert is a usurper, but why I wouldn’t call Aegon the same.

 

[Fulcrum29]

No he isn't.

He established the Iron Throne and the previously independent kingdoms bent the knee, acknowledging Aegon as their king. The erstwhile kings relinquished their kingship and took up the titles of Lords Paramount.

He established that Iron Throne by conquest, called the War of Conquest (or Targaryen Conquest). Do read of the battle known as the Field of Fire to see why the many independent kingdoms submissively bent the knee.

Do note something crucial of the North,

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_and_Blood

At Robb's camp, Robb and his bannermen debate whether to cooperate with Stannis or Renly Baratheon in the war against King Joffrey; Renly has greater forces, but Stannis is the elder Baratheon and next in line of succession excepting Cersei's children. Jon Umber questions why the northerners should be told what to do by rulers in the south at all, reminding them that the North was independent of the other Kingdoms before the Targaryens threatened them with their dragons. With the dragons gone, Umber declares there is only one king worthy of his respect and allegiance and bows before Robb, calling out, "The King in the North!" The other northern bannermen take up the cry and bow before the new King in the North, swearing fealty to Robb.

so yeah, the Targaryen's usurped the independent Kingdoms by force. The only reason the North received titles of Lord Paramount was due to their submission.

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/King_in_the_North

During the War of Conquest, by the time King Torrhen Stark gathered his armies to challenge the invaders, Aegon the Conqueror had already won the decisive Field of Fire and conquered most of southern Westeros. Seeing that the war was already lost and that the Northern armies had no hope of driving back Aegon's armies and his dragons, Torrhen wisely chose to spare his people by bending the knee, although it earned him the derisive nickname "the king who knelt". In return for Torrhen's submission, Aegon allowed House Stark to continue ruling the North as they had for thousands of years, but as vassals of the Iron Throne. They held the titles of Lord Paramount of the North, Lord of Winterfell, and Warden of the North. The Starks thus retained their ancient positions and traditions, including their duties policing the Night's Watch.

 

[greg0205]

He established that Iron Throne by conquest, called the War of Conquest (or Targaryen Conquest). Do read of the battle known as the Field of Fire to see why the many independent kingdoms submissively bent the knee.

Do note something crucial of the North,

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_and_Blood



so yeah, the Targaryen's usurped the independent Kingdoms by force. The only reason the North received titles of Lord Paramount was due to their submission.

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/King_in_the_North

Aegon also elevated the Tullys and Tyrells to Lords Paramount and the Greyjoys to Lords of the Iron Islands.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I think we’re at cross purposes here.

A usurper takes power illegally or by force like Robert did with his rebellion.

A conqueror uses force too, but the implication is a foreign invader... The Targaryens were Valyrians who invaded Westeros and conquered the continent.

The Baratheons were sworn to Aegon... but... 300 years Robert led a rebellion and won.

Sure, both take power by force, but there is a difference and it’s why Robert is a usurper, but why I wouldn’t call Aegon the same.

No, it is because some are mixing their own reality with fiction, and for that reason, they don’t view the Baratheons having any claim to the throne. I am going to say again, only Targaryen loyalists viewed Robert Baratheon as a usurper, please go read the books, or rewatch the series, than arguing with dictionaries. The majority of the once independent kingdoms viewed the Targaryen's as nothing more than invaders with dragons.

 

[greg0205]

No, it is because some are mixing their own reality with fiction, and for that reason, they don’t view the Baratheons having any claim to the throne. I am going to say again, only Targaryen loyalists viewed Robert Baratheon as a usurper, please go read the books, or rewatch the series, than arguing with dictionaries. The majority of the once independent kingdoms viewed the Targaryen's as nothing more than invaders with dragons.

Oh sweet lord...

 

[Fulcrum29]

Aegon also elevated the Tullys and Tyrells to Lords Paramount and the Greyjoys to Lords of the Iron Islands.

EDIT:

Why and how did he elevate House Tully and House Tyrell, and no, the Greyjoys was elected by the Ironborn after defeat of the pretenders if you know the Hoare legacy. Though Lords Paramount they were still nothing more than 'conquered' vassals.