A plan to end load-shedding fast

[Lupus]

I forget who keeps saying that renewables aren't a viable solution to take up base load, @Lupus perhaps? Explained well in this article...

Most people in government haven’t got the faintest clue about the basics of engineering – Kenny

As an engineer, Andrew Kenny writes that the idea being mooted that South Africa could solve its energy crisis by installing 10,000 MW of renewable power and 5,

www.biznews.com

Oh Nicodemus was one as well, he actually worked in the field and was poopooed by the renewable zealots

 

[konfab]

You get socialist rules that prevents you from benefitting financially. It is impossible to calculate an accurate ROI. In socialist SA a solar system does not save you money it just prevents the impact of load shedding.

An off grid system would have a huge ROI in a socialist system because you are guaranteed that the FC*kwit comrades in charge will never be able to run a sustainable business.

Self sufficiency is absolute venom to socialism. It is why socialists in the past went straight to small farmers and murdered them first.

 

[Johnatan56]

Sssh the renewable zealots will rise up. They'll tell you that South Australia was a great success and that one day last year they managed to generate electricity at the exact same cost as the rest of Australia.
They'll tell you that wind picks up at night (it varies like wind does). So far everyone that's gone green pays more for their electricity, we should've been looking at the only real renewable Nuclear, it's cleaner, it works out cheaper in the long run.
Think of renewables as renting a house, while nuclear is buying it. Sure initially renting is cheaper, but at the end of the day you've got no return on it.

I forget who keeps saying that renewables aren't a viable solution to take up base load, @Lupus perhaps? Explained well in this article...

Most people in government haven’t got the faintest clue about the basics of engineering – Kenny

As an engineer, Andrew Kenny writes that the idea being mooted that South Africa could solve its energy crisis by installing 10,000 MW of renewable power and 5,

www.biznews.com

Media Type: Website
Assessment Type: Traffic overview, Headlines, Background
Preliminary Assessment: Medium Credibility
Bias: Right
Country: South Africa
Confidence of Initial Assessment: Medium
Failed Fact Checks: Yes, related to Covid-19


Source: https://www.biznews.com/

They've failed fact checks before.

Basic issues with the article are things like assuming constant load, makes odd scaling assumptions (you'll have less chance of very low capacity generation across the country the more distributed your network is), missing sources for e.g. the 45W claim. Claims batteries can never charge as though we would never be able to produce excess power at times, misses the bonus of instant response to power demand spikes, etc.

That article is an opinion piece.

Oh Nicodemus was one as well, he actually worked in the field and was poopooed by the renewable zealots

He claims to have worked in the field, extremely doubtful.

 

[Benedict A55h0le not]

An off grid system would have a huge ROI in a socialist system because you are guaranteed that the FC*kwit comrades in charge will never be able to run a sustainable business.

Self sufficiency is absolute venom to socialism. It is why socialists in the past went straight to small farmers and murdered them first.

In SA they will try to enter your property and disable the off-grid systems, they will fine you and if you don`t pay up they will put you in jail. To go off-grid you will have to be prepared to defend your property from authorities by force. Hopefully they will back down with their tail between their legs like they do when trying to disconnect illegal connections, but I doubt it, the middleclass is the war enemy of the state and poor class.

 

[Neuk_]

They've failed fact checks before.

Basic issues with the article are things like assuming constant load, makes odd scaling assumptions (you'll have less chance of very low capacity generation across the country the more distributed your network is), missing sources for e.g. the 45W claim. Claims batteries can never charge as though we would never be able to produce excess power at times, misses the bonus of instant response to power demand spikes, etc.

That article is an opinion piece.

Sure, most of the article can be considered an opinion piece with some fact checking required, but the gist of it is correct in my opinion. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar have proven to not be effective for base loads where coal, nuclear, gas, etc. are a lot more suitable.

 

[wingnut771]

 

[konfab]

In SA they will try to enter your property and disable the off-grid systems, they will fine you and if you don`t pay up they will put you in jail. To go off-grid you will have to be prepared to defend your property from authorities by force. Hopefully they will back down with their tail between their legs like they do when trying to disconnect illegal connections, but I doubt it, the middleclass is the war enemy of the state and poor class.

Currently they would absolutely battle if you were off grid. They would need to come up with some bogus new tariff that applies to people who have no grid connection. Which would never hold in SA courts.

 

[Lupus]

Sure, most of the article can be considered an opinion piece with some fact checking required, but the gist of it is correct in my opinion. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar have proven to not be effective for base loads where coal, nuclear, gas, etc. are a lot more suitable.

He's one of the zealots, he'll die on the green sword, while everything is burning around him.

 

[Lupus]

They've failed fact checks before.

Basic issues with the article are things like assuming constant load, makes odd scaling assumptions (you'll have less chance of very low capacity generation across the country the more distributed your network is), missing sources for e.g. the 45W claim. Claims batteries can never charge as though we would never be able to produce excess power at times, misses the bonus of instant response to power demand spikes, etc.

That article is an opinion piece.

He claims to have worked in the field, extremely doubtful.

And your expertise lay in? What industry are you in?

 

[C4Cat]

Sure, most of the article can be considered an opinion piece with some fact checking required, but the gist of it is correct in my opinion. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar have proven to not be effective for base loads where coal, nuclear, gas, etc. are a lot more suitable.

Flexibility will become the norm in the future, rather than base load, and will prove just as reliable

 

[Lupus]

Flexibility will become the norm in the future, rather than base load, and will prove just as reliable

What's this flexibility you're talking about? Is it the idea that people must shift their loads? The only way that would happen is if companies actually didn't work 8 to 5. Cause otherwise your peaks are still going to be 5 to 9am and 5 to 9pm.

 

[C4Cat]

What's this flexibility you're talking about? Is it the idea that people must shift their loads? The only way that would happen is if companies actually didn't work 8 to 5. Cause otherwise your peaks are still going to be 5 to 9am and 5 to 9pm.

Flexibility is a more distributed system - instead of having a constant, unvarying, 24/7 baseload output from a centralised source, flexibility means having a large variety of of different sources of energy, primarily 'green' and made up of multiple smaller generating units (including private installations), all connected together, and being able to switch easily between them, so that some can take up the load when others are unable to produce their required output. This works well with many 'green' methods of power generation, since output is often dynamic. Then used along with batteries and more traditional methods of power generation, such as gas, which only kick in to supplement at 'peak' times, when there is a shortage. AI is used to monitor and switch between energy sources.

Baseload vs. Flexibility: Standing the Traditional Generation Model on its Head

For years — actually decades — the conventional wisdom about electric power has gone something like this: clean generation sources like wind and solar power are great, supplementing the energy mix with an increasing share of carbon-free electrons.

www.renewableenergyworld.com

'Baseload Is Poison' And 5 Other Lessons From Germany's Energy Transition

Baseload power is not the answer to the variability of renewable energy, a German energy official said Friday, and energy storage isn't necessarily the answer either.

www.forbes.com

Baseload power was traditionally supplied by coal and nuclear plants, with peaks in demand met by natural-gas plants.

But flexibility can displace the old notion of baseload and peak, Herdan said, and flexibility can take many forms, including gas peaker plants, batteries, demand management or regional exchanges. It's most important to keep in mind, he argued, that flexiblity is the goal, not any one of the forms it takes

 

[Johnatan56]

Sure, most of the article can be considered an opinion piece with some fact checking required, but the gist of it is correct in my opinion. Renewable energy sources like wind and solar have proven to not be effective for base loads where coal, nuclear, gas, etc. are a lot more suitable.

Base load is a myth, this is a news story, but the IEE is definitely a lot more credible than biznews:

The Intermittent Supply Argument Shouldn't Hold Up Renewable Energy

The need to store wind- and solar-generated electricity might be a myth

spectrum.ieee.org

Which is quoting from Renewable Energy: https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=27569&tip=sid&clean=0 , a journal with a 210 H-Index, which you'd probably consider high.

There are other stuff you can find, e.g. this is from 2013, note this would be an "opinion piece" but actually links to claims properly:

Baseload power is a myth: even intermittent renewables will work

newsroom.unsw.edu.au

That baseload myth has been debunked at least a decade ago.

And your expertise lay in? What industry are you in?

Software, helped write a paper on smart power grids, though research wise I'm more in applied artificial intelligence, work wise I can't say as would find who I am pretty quick.
Also irrelevant, at no point did I ever argue what my field or expertise is, I always brought you arguments made by others who are experts in their field, disputing the constant opinion pieces you quote.

 

[Lupus]

Flexibility is a more distributed system - instead of having a constant, unvarying, 24/7 baseload output from a centralised source, flexibility means having a large variety of of different sources of energy, primarily 'green' and made up of multiple smaller generating units (including private installations), all connected together, and being able to switch easily between them, so that some can take up the load when others are unable to produce their required output. This works well with many 'green' methods of power generation, since output is often dynamic. Then used along with batteries and more traditional methods of power generation, such as gas, which only kick in to supplement at 'peak' times, when there is a shortage. AI is used to monitor and switch between energy sources.

Baseload vs. Flexibility: Standing the Traditional Generation Model on its Head

For years — actually decades — the conventional wisdom about electric power has gone something like this: clean generation sources like wind and solar power are great, supplementing the energy mix with an increasing share of carbon-free electrons.

www.renewableenergyworld.com

'Baseload Is Poison' And 5 Other Lessons From Germany's Energy Transition

Baseload power is not the answer to the variability of renewable energy, a German energy official said Friday, and energy storage isn't necessarily the answer either.

www.forbes.com

You do know that there's a reason we have a base load right? You don't just run power stations for nothing, so you'd keep them running within a few GW above demand, our lowest demand is 20GW through the night because industry is running.

 

[C4Cat]

You do know that there's a reason we have a base load right? You don't just run power stations for nothing, so you'd keep them running within a few GW above demand, our lowest demand is 20GW through the night because industry is running.

It's like you didn't even read my post or the links in it

 

[Lupus]

It's like you didn't even read my post or the links in it

Because people have posted those before and it's all airy fairy wishy washy.
Flexible grids aren't easy to work with will cost a fortune as you'll need specialists for every power type, you'd need ways to ramp up or down the grid when needed, not when the wind blows or the sun shines.
A base load is there when needed and can be regulated a lot more carefully to avoid dips and peaks to have a stabilized grid.
You can't rely on wind or solar to do either of that as you can't predict what it'll be like on any given day.

 

[Benedict A55h0le not]

Because people have posted those before and it's all airy fairy wishy washy.
Flexible grids aren't easy to work with will cost a fortune as you'll need specialists for every power type, you'd need ways to ramp up or down the grid when needed, not when the wind blows or the sun shines.
A base load is there when needed and can be regulated a lot more carefully to avoid dips and peaks to have a stabilized grid.
You can't rely on wind or solar to do either of that as you can't predict what it'll be like on any given day.

Base load, as in the base load we don`t have? I wanted base load but Eskom said no. Therefor if I want more of any load I will have to buy a solar system. The days of central governance is over, it has failed, but you still hold on to the failed concepts. The state will never supply an affordable and reliable base load again. If you want less darkness then the only solution is solar.

 

[Vrotappel]

When reading the posts above I fondly recall the doom profits with regards to EVs. Now 1 in 10 cars sold are EVs.

 

[xumwun]

That baseload myth has been debunked at least a decade ago.

Solar has that pesky problem of not working at night

 

[Lupus]

Solar has that pesky problem of not working at night

Wind that doesn't work when there's no wind