Absa quietly changes default payment method from regular EFT to PayShap

Quicks said:
That's why the SARB is also pushing this, to control where you spend your money and how you pay taxes and what not.

Then end of the day they know your life better than you know yourself.
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China also tried this but it didn't go their way. Instead of going for the official channels people went for 3rd party payment solutions that are largely untracked. Today you can get your salary paid into an anonymous account and spend it all without the government ever knowing you received it.

Tim_vb said:
even better than those numbers are "just" a social construct ...t hey dont even exist in any real sense ...*mind blown*
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Since it went over your head I'll explain it like this. When these extra "routes" popped up they required new hardware and software. That is now paid for and pretty much standard with every bank. There's no reason not to use these other channels now as standard except the banks still cling to their old outdated methods so that whenever someone wants to use them they can make extra from it. Our banks are our biggest racketeers that ever existed.
 
Smiggles said:
Lol pro cash zealots took over this thread pushing an agenda.
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How can cash be an agenda when it has been around for millennia? It's a norm. You use an agenda to change the norm to suit your vested interests.
 
Smiggles said:
Lol pro cash zealots took over this thread pushing an agenda.
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I didn't even realise the cash-cashless discussion was this intense.

I just don't like carrying cash because it is a pain in the arse and bloats my wallet when I start building up shrapnel (coins).
 
Swa said:
China also tried this but it didn't go their way. Instead of going for the official channels people went for 3rd party payment solutions that are largely untracked. Today you can get your salary paid into an anonymous account and spend it all without the government ever knowing you received it.
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Not true, the Chinese gov requires all clearing to go through PBOC

However, this is far from the only motive involved. The PBOC and CCP have a host of additional uses for this data — mobile payments have become such an integral part of China’s consumer economy that mobile payment transactions paint a detailed picture of an individual’s daily habits, including their consumption preferences, whereabouts, and spending power (Abkowitz 2018). Thus, by obtaining mobile payment transactions data, the PBOC and CCP gain access to an intimate view of the daily behavior of a substantial portion of their citizens, which is invaluable for a government that seeks ultimate power over its political, economic, and social systems.

Swa said:
Since it went over your head I'll explain it like this. When these extra "routes" popped up they required new hardware and software. That is now paid for and pretty much standard with every bank. There's no reason not to use these other channels now as standard except the banks still cling to their old outdated methods so that whenever someone wants to use them they can make extra from it. Our banks are our biggest racketeers that ever existed.
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These are multi year investment business cases and banks use them cross subsidise other functions they can't / dont charge for. The operational side of payments still incur operational, maintenance, compliance and administrative costs - this is common misunderstanding for people who dont work in fintech. Partly this is a result of payments being a social construct and the need to humans to agree whether a payment has actually occurred and whether the payment followed the correct process or not (spoiler alert sometimes payments dont complete properly or shouldn't not have occurred).

That banks seek to maximise profit comes down to the fact that the SA economy is largely capitalist free market (profit driven) and structurally dominated by entrenched interests. However SARBS (state) acquisition of the mandated payments clearing platform (with loudly the stated objective of driving down costs and increasing usage of real time payments) raises interesting competitive questions like is the state now competing against banks and other payment providers. Is this good or not? What is "right" in this case comes down to interpretations of the law and the states policies.
 
Smiggles said:
Then why does every thread have to turn into a pro cash chant? Pushing an agenda to try to stop the inevitable.
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It's inevitable that people would find ways around these systemic changes.

Tim_vb said:
Not true, the Chinese gov requires all clearing to go through PBOC

However, this is far from the only motive involved. The PBOC and CCP have a host of additional uses for this data — mobile payments have become such an integral part of China’s consumer economy that mobile payment transactions paint a detailed picture of an individual’s daily habits, including their consumption preferences, whereabouts, and spending power (Abkowitz 2018). Thus, by obtaining mobile payment transactions data, the PBOC and CCP gain access to an intimate view of the daily behavior of a substantial portion of their citizens, which is invaluable for a government that seeks ultimate power over its political, economic, and social systems.
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That's the idea theoretically. And did I say it does not? Even with this being the case there are tiers and thresholds with some mobile wallets working almost anonymously. As a foreigner we wouldn't know much for obvious reasons but just like with VPNs every Chinese citizen knows the ways around the system.

Tim_vb said:
These are multi year investment business cases and banks use them cross subsidise other functions they can't / dont charge for. The operational side of payments still incur operational, maintenance, compliance and administrative costs - this is common misunderstanding for people who dont work in fintech. Partly this is a result of payments being a social construct and the need to humans to agree whether a payment has actually occurred and whether the payment followed the correct process or not (spoiler alert sometimes payments dont complete properly or shouldn't not have occurred).


That banks seek to maximise profit comes down to the fact that the SA economy is largely capitalist free market (profit driven) and structurally dominated by entrenched interests. However SARBS (state) acquisition of the mandated payments clearing platform (with loudly the stated objective of driving down costs and increasing usage of real time payments) raises interesting competitive questions like is the state now competing against banks and other payment providers. Is this good or not? What is "right" in this case comes down to interpretations of the law and the states policies.
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ROFLOL. Those investments should be paid off multiple times by now. And sure, banks are capitalist. That is the problem, they've largely forgotten with who's money they're making money and instead treat investors as cash cows while enabling those who are a burden. People are usually shocked at this fact and finding out that banks are printing money.
 
cavedog said:
Tymebank offers payshap free.

Very nice feature if I need to pay someone instantly for free.
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Up to how much ?

FNB has it free for amounts under R100 on some accounts and then other accounts have a free limit per month.

The bank is always making money here.
 
Nerfherder said:
Up to how much ?

FNB has it free for amounts under R100 on some accounts and then other accounts have a free limit per month.

The bank is always making money here.
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R5000 per transaction. I don't see a limit on the number of transactions per month or day. I guess normal account limits apply.
 
Smiggles said:
Then why does every thread have to turn into a pro cash chant? Pushing an agenda to try to stop the inevitable.
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It's not pro cash. It's the reality of South Africa having 30%+ unemployment, 60% youth unemployment, almost half the population on grants, and millions of illegal migrants who can't open bank accounts. Even the banks admit cash is going nowhere.

People living in suburbs with checkers deliveries and their own transport don't see these realities. They don't realise that only 20% of South Africa owns a car. Most of South Africa prefers cash because it doesn't attract bank charges.

The taxi industry is worth around R100 billion a year, but it operates only on cash. That is due to my statement in the first sentence.

With thousands being rendered unemployed by Goodyear, Mittal and many other companies, the demand for cash will be much higher. People live in bubbles in SA and don't see the reality of the country.
 
mylesillidge said:
One of South Africa's biggest banks secretly changed a setting that could cost customers in fees

Absa has quietly changed the default option for payments to other banks from regular electronic funds transfers (EFT) to PayShap, which carries a R7.50 fee for transfers made to regular account numbers.

PayShap transactions on Absa are significantly more expensive than EFTs. Even on Absa’s entry-level account, ChatWallet, EFTs to bank accounts are R1 each. Many Absa accounts offer free EFTs.
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They did this with international transfers too earlier this year,changed from regular SWIFT payments to Western Union - so instead of Money in your Bank,you had to go to a branch and collect Cash in an Envelope
 
Nerfherder said:
Up to how much ?

FNB has it free for amounts under R100 on some accounts and then other accounts have a free limit per month.

The bank is always making money here.
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There are plenty of free transactions. Tyme doesn't charge me anything for bill payments. African Bank also doesn't seem to charge an EFT fee.
 
notayoba said:
IMHO it should be up to the bank to determine the best way to route a payment. They must figure out which way will be the cheapest/fastest and just do it. Why ask the consumer to choose.

It's like a courier company asking me if I want my parcel to go on a Nissan or Toyota bakkie, and if I want the driver to stop for a pie or a sandwich. I don't fkn care, just send the parcel.
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Wrong analogy, even with couriers or shippers you get to chose your shipment type based on time and cost. This is the same, happy with the 25 to 48 hour, do normal. Want it instant? Choose paydharp or other but they gonna charge you.
 
Kosmik said:
Want this always the case though? Never thought it was differant for pops.
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They have a separate 'SMS Fee' as a monthly charge on the credit card side, but I never recalled paying R1-R1.50 to send an email or SMS as proof of payment when making transactions.

Even now when purchasing electricity through the app, they charge an additional R1.50 for who knows what.

This is on top of the monthly cheque and credit card account fees.
 
cavedog said:
Tymebank offers payshap free.

Very nice feature if I need to pay someone instantly for free.
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Part of their aggressive growth strategy - makes sense as real time clearing would be most valuable to lower income customers
 
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