Addiction advice thread

[Sherbang]

You're more than welcome to read some letters here http://www.orange-papers.org/ ... just scroll to the bottom

I think there's close to 3,000+ there ... they all follow the same theme. Alternativly there is Google - but this is a pointless debate. If it worked for them, great.

I've read the orange papers before, addiction and rehabilitation is a long time interest of mine and I did a lot of research when my ex-heroin addict friend first asked me for help (I paid for her rehab at the time).

The orange-papers is one mans analysis of Alcoholics Anonymous and like any large organization AA is open to abuse by people.
The experiences of people who wrote in to that site is not the same as the experiences of people I know in SA who go to AA/NA.
There is nothing cult-like about it, in my experience .
That some people abuse the program to fulfill their own power hungry agenda is sad, and I'm unhappy that AA/NA is considered the 'standard' form of treatment as I personally think harm reduction strategies are more effective
than than the 'total abstinence or die' philosophy of AA/NA.

 

[Ekstasis]

I left the AA after 2 weeks. Thought it was bs!

 

[Sherbang]

I left the AA after 2 weeks. Thought it was bs!

Out of interest, what method/process did you use to cut down / stop your drinking problem?

 

[MissCalamity]

Its not selfish to find posting online theraputic, especialy if some one would get help out of it, or atleast typing about it. I live with people with add/adha and hypo add/depression/borderline bipolar. I think those inbalances are the start of an addiction. The way the drugs start affecting the brain and 'reality' is probly even different - the different amounts and levels of 'not sobre' ... but that could be complex. Even being an 'ex addict' or no longer a user of the drugs: life term effects. What worries me, is my littlest brother (ADHD) has already been on so many drugs prescribed by doctors, all relative to 'normalising' him, that he becomes dependant on the drugs and when he is older and is exposed to marijuana, alcohol, ect that the combiuned effects will be damaging. My other brother (hypo add/depressio borderline bipolar) never took the 'add drugs' but has been/is on anti depressants, smokes way too much doobie and probly also drinks too much. Destructive paths ? Or is this expected of kids/people with these issues? Myself, i'v done ritalin that helped, doobie that was fun, alcohol i enjoy. But then again by most standards my brains 'normal' . It could be that the other drugs do keep the other inbalances in order : marijuana probly would cure alot of ails if the right amount (like nocotene positively effecting long/short term memory) . I'v fallen for and been involved with addicts and 'recoverers' alike - drugs and world of warcraft lol , its as bad as the bad things i think sometimes cos somethings missing in them and it keeps them missing you .

 

[Kornhub]

Misscalamity,I think they have alternative treatment for ADHD children.

 

[Gory51]

Really need some help here....not even sure where to start.
It is long and complicated and I don't know if it will ever come right. Been with my gf for 8 years now, and she has had a drug problem the last 3-4 years.

Don't even know what to ask for here. I honestly don't like a lot of what I have read here, so I am really conflicted about posting this.

I just don't know if I can cope any more, but I love her so much....I don't think I could ever leave.

Anyone here been in that situation before?

 

[Sensorei]

Really need some help here....not even sure where to start.
It is long and complicated and I don't know if it will ever come right. Been with my gf for 8 years now, and she has had a drug problem the last 3-4 years.

Don't even know what to ask for here. I honestly don't like a lot of what I have read here, so I am really conflicted about posting this.

I just don't know if I can cope any more, but I love her so much....I don't think I could ever leave.

Anyone here been in that situation before?

Yes. It doesn't get better. It only gets worse. Sad to say, if you aren't part of the solution then you are part if the problem. Even as the loving boyfriend. This is one of the hardest things to accept.

Addiction makes people very self centered and manipulative. So although she comes first in your life, the drugs come first for her. You need to see a professional or attend nar-anon bud.

 

[Sherbang]

Really need some help here....not even sure where to start.
It is long and complicated and I don't know if it will ever come right. Been with my gf for 8 years now, and she has had a drug problem the last 3-4 years.

Don't even know what to ask for here. I honestly don't like a lot of what I have read here, so I am really conflicted about posting this.

I just don't know if I can cope any more, but I love her so much....I don't think I could ever leave.

Anyone here been in that situation before?

What kind of drug problem does she have?

 

[Gory51]

I know this will not be easy. I accepted that when I first found out about her problem. And I cant leave until I have tried everything.

Once before I walked out on someone like this, they ended up being raped that same weekend....and well at 21 they were dead.
I only knew her for about a year and we were both young, but that stuff haunts you forever.....
I don't know if I could let that happen again, no matter what the cost to me.

My gf is addicted to sugars, which is an opiate, ie heroin. Its a bad, really bad, thing to be on. It is everywhere here in Durban, however people don't acknowledge the scale of the problem

 

[Dolby]

I've gone through it.

My girlfriend has been on drugs since and early teenager, but managed to kick the habit when she had a child. When we met, she'd been clean 3 years and everything was alright. After about 2.5 years together, she hit a depressive cycle and was introduced to crystal meth.

However she didn't tell me, but the relationship seriously degraded and I knew something was up (not what it was though). We lived together, but I wouldn't see her as she'd always come home late from where ever she went. It was pure hell living and loving something like that.

Eventually she admitted she had an issue, resigned from work - and went to rehab to kick the habit. I wanted nothing to do with her, but as she became 'normal' in rehab away from the drugs, I started getting closer. At the end of the rehab visit, he mother didn't want her living with her ... so I took her back.

Everything was alright for 4 months during NA meetings ... until she got too close to the NA folk. They took advantage, she cheated on me etc etc .... and eventually fell back on the meth.

I pretty much wrote her off after that, but it took ages to be for me to 'forget' her (although, I won't forget her) - and my advice is to write her off and move on

 

[Sherbang]

I know this will not be easy. I accepted that when I first found out about her problem. And I cant leave until I have tried everything.

Once before I walked out on someone like this, they ended up being raped that same weekend....and well at 21 they were dead.
I only knew her for about a year and we were both young, but that stuff haunts you forever.....
I don't know if I could let that happen again, no matter what the cost to me.

My gf is addicted to sugars, which is an opiate, ie heroin. Its a bad, really bad, thing to be on. It is everywhere here in Durban, however people don't acknowledge the scale of the problem

It's tricky, I know. I was in this situation and all my friends told me to get rid rid of her, or, as Dolby says, write her off and move on. Only I couldn't do it because I love and care for her. Fortunately, in my case, things worked out for the best, in the end. Although we are not involved anymore, we are close friends and she has been clean for almost 6 years now. So sometimes there can be a happy ending. My advice would be to either follow Dolby's advice - leave her be and move on, or do what I did:
End the relationship - stop sleeping with her / being physically intimate with her.
Ensure she understands that you're not turning your back on her but that an intimate relationship with her is inappropriate given her addiction, as she'll always prioritize the drug before you.
Love her like a brother loves a sister - be there for her but let her live her own life.
Don't ever give her money.
Leave the door open - when she decides she wants to quit, she'll need your help and support so be there for her.
Until she decides she wants to quit though, there is nothing you can do for her, aside from constant reminders that she deserves more from life and is worth more than the value she puts on herself.

Once she makes that decision to quit though (and she will), do everything you can to assist her in fulfilling this decision.

 

[Sensorei]

End the relationship - stop sleeping with her / being physically intimate with her.
Ensure she understands that you're not turning you back on her but that an intimate relationship with her is inappropriate given her addiction, as she'll always prioritize the drug before you.
Love her like a brother loves a sister - be there for her but let her live her own life.
Don't ever give her money.
Leave the door open - if she decides she wants to quit, she'll need your help and support so be there for her.
Until she decides she wants to quit though, there is nothing you can do for her. Once she makes that decision though, do everything you can to assist her in fulfilling this decision.

Excellent advice.

I have been through the torment and strain that is put on a family because of heroin addiction. You can not help someone quit heroin. It has to come from them 100%. You are unfortunately only doing more damage than good staying in an intimate relationship relationship with her. When someone is on heroin, emotional and financial support from people only feeds the addiction.You are enabling her addiction by putting up with it. I might sound cold, but I spent quite a while helping recovering addicts and talking in rehabs, schools, etc. Just giving the facts. Sugar is deadly and most people can not quit without rehab or hardline intervention.

Everyone who has a wife/husband/bf/gf addicted to hardcore opiates might have different circumstances, but their story is always the same. Tough love is the most painful option to take. But it is the only one that works.

 

[Gory51]

Thanks guys, there is a lot to consider and it is no small decision.

Due to the nature heroin/opiates, libido is low in her, so we are not that intimate at he moment anyway.
I think an important thing to do if I do try stick it out is to constantly remind her she is worth something and does deserve more out of life .

This stuff can make her very depressed which is extremely worrying. I am not yet ready to leave/write her off/give up, as I am sure there is more support I can give, although I feel run down a lot lately.

Saving her life is my number one priority right now......
"Once before I walked out on someone like this, they ended up being raped that same weekend....and well at 21 they were dead.
I only knew her for about a year and we were both young, but that stuff haunts you forever.....
I don't know if I could let that happen again, no matter what the cost to me." <--- that still troubles me deeply

 

[Sensorei]

Thanks guys, there is a lot to consider and it is no small decision.

Due to the nature heroin/opiates, libido is low in her, so we are not that intimate at he moment anyway.
I think an important thing to do if I do try stick it out is to constantly remind her she is worth something and does deserve more out of life .

This stuff can make her very depressed which is extremely worrying. I am not yet ready to leave/write her off/give up, as I am sure there is more support I can give, although I feel run down a lot lately.

Saving her life is my number one priority right now......
"Once before I walked out on someone like this, they ended up being raped that same weekend....and well at 21 they were dead.
I only knew her for about a year and we were both young, but that stuff haunts you forever.....
I don't know if I could let that happen again, no matter what the cost to me." <--- that still troubles me deeply

You are unfortunately deluded my friend. Opiates are a different ballgame. You say saving her life is your number one priority. You can't do anything to save her life s long as she is using. Only she can make the decision. You can not tolerate her using one more day- That is the only ultimatum you must accept. You are trying to be a knight in shining armor but seriously dude, books are written on how that does not work with drug addiction. Only she can save herself. All you can do is convince her that she needs help from people who can help her stay clean.

Intimacy is not only about sex. You are too emotionally involved to see outside the box and you are in over your head.

You see the depression, but you don't see her get high. Depression is all forgotten once that sugar is in her veins. You are in over your head. If you need a contact number of someone in your area who can help or can recommend a place let me know. Or if you need a contact number for a support group of people in the same situation as you.

 

[Sherbang]

You are unfortunately deluded my friend. Opiates are a different ballgame. You say saving her life is your number one priority. You can't do anything to save her life s long as she is using. Only she can make the decision. You can not tolerate her using one more day- That is the only ultimatum you must accept. You are trying to be a knight in shining armor but seriously dude, books are written on how that does not work with drug addiction. Only she can save herself. All you can do is convince her that she needs help from people who can help her stay clean.

Intimacy is not only about sex. You are too emotionally involved to see outside the box and you are in over your head.

You see the depression, but you don't see her get high. Depression is all forgotten once that sugar is in her veins. You are in over your head. If you need a contact number of someone in your area who can help or can recommend a place let me know. Or if you need a contact number for a support group of people in the same situation as you.

I think that's a bit harsh. Gory51, you need to do what you need to do. If staying by her through thick and thin is what you need to do then so be it. People told me all the same - get rid of her, you're in over your head, etc - but I stuck by her because my love for her would have been worthless if I was able to just turn my back on her.

I do think it's a good idea to get in touch with a support group though. There are thousands of people who are with partners who are addicts. Many are married to addicts, so just walking away is not an option for them. People whose children or parents are addicts - there are many people in the same or similar situations to the one you find yourself in and it will help a great deal to be able to talk with them, share stories, coping mechanisms, etc. And when things get too much, to have someone to talk to who understands what you're going through. Sensorei can put you in touch or just contact local rehab centres and they will be able to put you in touch with support groups too...

 

[Sensorei]

I think that's a bit harsh. Gory51, you need to do what you need to do. If staying by her through thick and thin is what you need to do then so be it. People told me all the same - get rid of her, you're in over your head, etc - but I stuck by her because my love for her would have been worthless if I was able to just turn my back on her.

I do think it's a good idea to get in touch with a support group though. There are thousands of people who are with partners who are addicts. Many are married to addicts, so just walking away is not an option for them. People whose children or parents are addicts - there are many people in the same or similar situations to the one you find yourself in and it will help a great deal to be able to talk with them, share stories, coping mechanisms, etc. And when things get too much, to have someone to talk to who understands what you're going through. Sensorei can put you in touch or just contact local rehab centres and they will be able to put you in touch with support groups too...

I'm not saying he must just literally walk out on her and say, "Call me if you get clean". I'm saying that the only way to quit heroin/sugar is to to do it now and that he must give her an ultimatim. H addicts all tell themselves they are going to quit, over and over and this goes on for years. If she comes up with some excuse about why she can't get help now, then she has made her choice and he needs to step aside on an intimate/relationship level because otherwise he is just enabling her. An addict will not quit unless there is utter desperation and loneliness. The high IS that good. Emotional support from someone who has no idea about how the drug and addiction works usually just delays getting clean. Its text book. Take a look here as well: http://www.drugaddictiontreatment.com/featured/how-to-stop-codependency/

 

[Dolby]

I'm not saying he must just literally walk out on her and say, "Call me if you get clean".

I'm saying that ...

You can be the good prince and help her through thick and thin because of the love involved - but that does come to an end in many cases. You've heard of mothers killing their own children due to drugs?

Your own sanity comes first

 

[Sherbang]

I'm saying that ...

You can be the good prince and help her through thick and thin because of the love involved - but that does come to an end in many cases. You've heard of mothers killing their own children due to drugs?

Your own sanity comes first

That's an important point: Don't prioritize her welfare above your own. Your own health and sanity must come first and if, in the long run, you find you are neglecting your own well being in order to be there for her, you might want to step back...

 

[Juice]

Your own sanity comes first

A co-dependent needs an addict like an addict needs an addiction. Find and read this book to give you a better understanding of what that means and then maybe think about getting some professional help FOR YOU.

Codependent No More - Melody Beattie

You can't take responsibility for someone else's actions. You can't control someone else's behaviour. You can only look after yourself.

Juice

 

[Ryanbighead]

+1

The assistance seeker in this case sounds like he has grand illusions of being a knight in shining armour. This is not possible.

I come from being:

A) an ex-drug user.(everything, ok I still partake here and there)
B) an ex-partner and fiance of two women who were both ex-Heroin addicts.

I have one word of advice:

Ask her "Will you quit for me right now. Give me what you have to flush it down the toilet."

If she says she "can't right now" or any line like that then the answer is unfortunately that you have to leave. Unless they are willing to go cold Turkey immediately then there is nadda you can do. Pack your sandwich's and ***off.

The heroin addled brain of a female is like... like... I just don't have any way to explain just how ****ing broken they are. No english word can describe it. They are a more tactile, sensual being when IN a normal state but when on H it just brings out a side of them in a strange alien way. They ****ing love the feeling they will do anything for it. Men will conjure strange plans to get more where as women will do ANYTHING to get more.

You my firend have a broken toy.

You my friend are one of many men I have met who are addicted to fixing broken toys. Cut it out.

_______________________________________________________________

If you are interested in reading more ranting "wall ' o text" I had this in the original body of text above then decided it was an additional story and not neccissary in answering the dude:


I speak from experience here..

When I was doing all kinds of drugs I would not have quit for anyone. They were way to fun and I enjoyed them more than I enjoyed the company of people(I still don't enjoy people). I also enjoyed them for their applications in chemistry and their functions on the brain, various bodily systems as well as their potential uses (I was even purchasing reserch chemicals from outside of the country). Making these chemicals and growing these plants, ingesting them to see just what would happen and how far I could push the limits was increadibly fascinating and exciting. I would equate doing some new chemical or plant to an adrenaline junky jumping off a mountain. It's a thrill not knowing if you might live or die, liquify your brain or watch your house melt or grow fur.

Eventually I got bored and gatvol of never sleeping and feeling **** etc. etc. so I just stopped. By myself, no-one egging me on with "It works if you work it, so work it, you're worth it!" type NA bull****e. There is nothing I hate more than an evangelical ex-drug user who thinks getting over drugs is like a victorious battle with cancer. They are almightly ****ing douchnozzles. I would far rather tell someone "Guy, that ????? is epic. I really enjoyed it too. But look at your flat, there is a dead cat in your fridge. Tone it down, you are being a disgusting ****stain." than telling them "You ARE and Addict. It's a desease and you will be one for the rest of your life. If you don't attone for your drug use-y-ness you are going to druggie hell". God. How ****ing worthless must one feel if you are told you are and always will be an addict for the rest of your life. Like you are not human. You are merely an ex-user simply because you had fun at some point?

In saying everything I have above I do have one exception to my emotions and feeling about drugs in general.

The white pony
The magic dragon
Scag
Junk
Smack
Browns

H

(Opiates)

This stuff is scary. Not just heroine but all of the Opiates. Be they prescribed by a doc or bought from a dealer.

All of the natural extracts or chemically seperated salts from this un-assuming poppy farmed in Afganistan put the fear of God into me. I don't know why it is but this stuff turns people into zombies. I have luckily come out unscathed from my experimentation with various opiates but many think I have inhuman abilities to not become addicted to opiates. Baring in mind I am a full blown cigarette addict so not unable to become an addict (although smoking is a hobby and I collect smoking paraphenalia like some old english woman who collects plates with pictures of the royals emblazoned on them). All in all, the stuff feels great. Like sex but better. Sex butter. It's like sleepy sex in a sun room filled with late afternoon sun on a cold winters day sex, with overtones of numbness and warmth and gooey goodness.

I shot the stuff (Heroin) into my veins on a few occasions, not more than five I would say. Each time I could say it was pretty amaizing. There are down sides like itching and VOMITING EVERYWHERE but they were nothing when compared to the fact that you are DOING HEROIN OMG. Luckily I have a short attention span and got bored of that type of drug and moved onto more hardcore psycodelics within the week.

My point being, and I am sory for the rant / non linear storytelling methods which a rant usually follow, is that this stuff is powerful and will suck in the strongest of people and make them it's bitch. Make them it's slave. Make them zombies.

So beware fellow phsychonaughts. This drug is not one to be toyed with.




PS: Your partner is not there anymore so don't be angry with her. This is a new horrible autopilot-esk thing. If you have it in you to lock her in a room for two weeks then I would say thats your best bet. I did it to a friend and he was ever gratefull once the turkey had stopped. The inside of that room however, was not.

PPS: Some post a few ways up it could have been the op, I have no idea, celebrating 10 years clean. Thats mighty gay. That sort of mentality will keep your chains bound nice and tight. Let the **** go. You are not an addict. Waking up every day and chanting that you are not an addict is ridicluous. If you don't then you ****ing aren't and it's not something to celebrate. Just get on with your life like a normal person.

edit:

PPPS: I think I need to learn how to write a bit better. This this started differently... it now has a life of its own.

PPPPS: I think I like writing?