Advice needed : Setting up wifi repeater 11km

[kilos]

If you run the Highsites in AP mode,then you can connect other customers to it , do not think so in bridge mode.Speak under correction.(not legal if you do not have a license)

There was a posting with someone from Sutherland not too long ago with the same connection, yeah Telkom cannot provide these services, think of the additional services you can run, VoIP, security infra-red cameras or RFID tags for monitoring livestock (wishlist)

 

[rbarryza]

Ok, so here's a draft of my shopping list, please critique:

Power:
- 1 x 110ah deep cycle battery - around R1000
- 50 - 60 watt solar panels - around R3000 (the sun shines most of the time, it's in the Karoo, so think I can get away below 60 watt)
- charge regulator (around R350)
- cables (around R100)
- enclosure & waterproofing (can put something together for about R100 I guess)

Wifi:
End points : 2 x Ubiquity NS5 (R795 each)
Hisite :
- 1 x 411 Routerboard (R499)
- 1 x RB52 radio (R315)
- 1 x 17dBi 5.8Ghz 90 Degree Sector Antenna (so more than 1 client can connect
to the hisite)
- 1 x enclosure (R219)
- cables (around R200 I'm guessing)

What am I missing, or anything obviously wrong?

 

[protzkrog]

get a RB433 for the highsite, the 411 has only one mini-pci slot - you are going to want to expand later on or make point to point links to the farm and town, rather be prepared and get proper stuff from the start.

 

[warwickw]

Stay away from the 411 for a highsite, its too limited. I'd recomend a 433 or ideally a 433AH for a highsite the AH has a faster processor which later on when you expand and have more clients running off it will become vital.

Also make sure your RB has a level 4 license at least, level 3 can't be an access point.

 

[kilos]

Can both customers see the high site ?
As you have one 90 degree sector.

Customer A <-\
Customer B <--High Site Sector <---> DSL line

Sundries:
Self amalgamating tape and then wrap electrical tape around the self-amalgamating tape and then cable tie the lot.
Guaranteed no water to enter that in a thunderstorm

I see you will baboon-proof it in an earlier posting

When you attach the uFL connector to the R52 stick some tape around that,due to temperature expansion and contraction it can pop off

 

[Gaz{M}]

Not sure what charge regulator you are using, but it should have a battery connector, a solar panel connector and then a fused/protected 12V load output to protect your router equipment, also with auto shutdown if the battery gets too low.

 

[rbarryza]

At the moment it looks like there will be 2 clients. They're about 2 km from each other, within sight of each other, and can both see the high site. Ideally I'd like each client to make their own PPPoE connection to an ISP. I don't want to manage bandwidth and so forth as well.

What would the setup be? Would I set up the high site as a bridge or AP then? Would I need more than one radio in the high site then?

 

[rbarryza]

Oh, and then licensing: How does that work? I'm guessing I'll need a license of some kind if I want to be completely above board. I see warwickw mentions something about level 3 and level 4 licenses. Is it a yearly fee, or a once off?

 

[rbarryza]

I have started a blog to document all of this. There are still quite a few questions I have. Please have a look and post a comment if you have any advice or can answer any of the questions:
http://diywifilink.wordpress.com/

 

[acidrain]

Oh, and then licensing: How does that work? I'm guessing I'll need a license of some kind if I want to be completely above board. I see warwickw mentions something about level 3 and level 4 licenses. Is it a yearly fee, or a once off?

The license is a once off fee. I got my board long ago ( 133 series ) and it came with a Level 4 license so maybe it's the same with the 433 series

Maybe I should look at wind power as well. That might reduce the requirements on battery life and therefore cost.

There are some sites which give some nice diy wind generators with good output power. Can't remember the sites name unfortunately but would be a nice secondary project to start and probably turn out cheaper than buying one

 

[portcullis]

RB433 is supplied with L4 licence.

Before you rush out and buy solar panels, let me share my experience with you.

I have a high site that has an RB433AH with an R52H and a R5H. That's it - at the moment.

I have this solar panel, this regulator and two Deltec 1250 batteries.

The numbers are on Bushpower's website for everyone to see. This stuff didn't come cheap. It's still less than R35K Eskom quoted to get 20A of 220V 200m up the hill from their substation to the site.

We did the math with the guy from Bushpower (who's also an IT type) and had it checked over by the support guys at MikroTik. They concured that the setup I have there should maintain a constant 12.6V for at least five days for two RB433AH's with two radios each and a 12V 8port switch.

We were all wrong.

I've got 15mm cables from the solar panel to the regulator and from the regulator to the batteries so there's very little voltage loss. I've got 15mm cables from the regulator to the fuse box and 2.5mm cables from the fuse box to the RB. I'm using the power jack rather than PoE as MikroTik say it's more efficient.

There are thick battery cables (like in your car to the starter / ignition solenoid) connecting the two batteries. The batteries are in parallel. The regulator is connected to the (+) of one battery and the (-) of the other.

Everything's been done according to the book.

Since commissioning this lot I've discovered that I don't have enough power there to cope with a four days of cloud.

A couple of weeks ago we had a couple of days really bad weather and the RB froze because power to it dropped below 11V. I had to take it back to the suppliers for them to do stuff to get it going again.

Come summer time, I'll be adding at least one more 50W solar panel (probably two 80W's as I want to refit the second routerboard) and at least three more batteries.

Yesterday was a lovely, sunny day in die Kaap. Here's the voltage report.

Daily voltage report for Helderberg_1 on jul/28/2009

23:00 = 12.3
22:00 = 12.5
21:00 = 12.5
20:00 = 12.5
19:00 = 12.5
18:00 = 12.4
17:00 = 12.8
16:00 = 13.3
15:00 = 13.0
14:00 = 13.3
13:00 = 13.5
12:00 = 13.5
11:00 = 13.2
10:00 = 13.1
09:00 = 12.7
08:00 = 12.5
07:00 = 12.5
06:00 = 12.5
05:00 = 12.5
04:00 = 12.5
03:00 = 12.5
02:00 = 12.5
01:00 = 12.5
00:00 = 12.5

Since voltmonitor started on 17:00:00 jul/24/2009 Maximum = 13.7v at 10:00:00 jul/25/2009 Minimum = 12.3v at 23:00:00 jul/28/2009

Today was cloudy. Here's the voltage report.

Daily voltage report for Helderberg_1 on jul/29/2009

23:00 = 12.6
22:00 = 12.5
21:00 = 12.5
20:00 = 12.5
19:00 = 12.1
18:00 = 12.6
17:00 = 12.7
16:00 = 12.9
15:00 = 13.2
14:00 = 13.6
13:00 = 13.6
12:00 = 13.5
11:00 = 13.1
10:00 = 12.9
09:00 = 12.4
08:00 = 12.6
07:00 = 12.6
06:00 = 12.6
05:00 = 12.6
04:00 = 12.6
03:00 = 12.6
02:00 = 12.6
01:00 = 12.6
00:00 = 12.5

Since voltmonitor started on 17:00:00 jul/24/2009 Maximum = 13.7v at 10:00:00 jul/25/2009 Minimum = 12.1v at 19:00:00 jul/29/2009


We expect rain tomorrow and over the weekend. I anticipate some offroading on Sunday to go and charge the batteries from the 4x4's alternator.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I should never have wasted money on solar. I should have gone for wind power.
http://www.powerinverters.co.za/wind.htm

One other thing to consider is the price of the tower...R10K per meter to supply something freestanding with an engineer's certificate (you need that for your insurance) is about the norm for a site that's nice and close to town.

I see that Scoop now sell lattice masts. They seem to be of above average quality and I'm toying with getting one for a new high site. But it's just a question of time before people who don't know how to erect them go there, buy some lengths, pour a half cube foundation and then try to hoist the thing up with a Land Rover or a Land Cruiser - because, hey, how difficult can it be?

Bang, crash, wollop

Then there are the toerags who will trek through the bush to go and steal your stuff or sabotage you.

I know what I'm talking about. The site I'm discussing didn't always have just one RB433 in it...

You must get at least one of these cameras, then set the motion detection up to record movies or take photos and upload the data to an FTP server so the last thing you see is the face of the delta oscar oscar sierra who wants to sabotage you.

You can plug the cameras into the ethernet ports on the RB433 and power them from your fuse box connected to the solar panel regulator.

 

[portcullis]

PPPoE 101...

I suspect the the Nanostation in town will have to be replaced with a Routerboard 411 as you need to do some fancy routing.

Let's say RB411 at the town site is connected to an ADSL modem in bridge mode.

It's wlan1 will have two IP addresses, let's say 192.168.1.1/30 and 192.168.2.1/30

Now, your RB in the middle that will have two radios in it. One pointing to town with a grid or a panel and one with some kind of a sectoral or panel pointing to the two houses. If you want a reliable link, use one radio for each client, each with a grid pointing to a farmouse. Then there will be three aerials on your pole / mast / tower.

The wlan1 points to town and will have two IP addresses 192.168.1.2/30 and 192.168.2.2/30

The wlan2 will have IP addresses 192.168.1.5/30 and 192.168.2.5/30

You then need to set up routing marks using a mangle rule (IP - Firewall - Mangle) to mark packets from 192.168.1.6 as route_1 and 192.168.2.6 as route_2.

Then add your first default route (IP - Routes) as 0.0.0.0/0 with gateway 192.168.1.1, but further down on the Winbox screen, you will see "Routing Mark". Select route_1 from the dropdown list.

Repeat for route 2 with .2. IP addresses and route_2 marks.

Farmhouse 1 can probably get away with an NS5 with IP address 192.168.1.6/30 - Default gateway will be 192.168.1.5

Farmhouse 2 will have an IP address of 192.168.2.6/30 - Default gateway will be 192.168.2.5

If you do a traceroute (it's on the first screen of the Nanostation web interface) from 2.6 it should trace through to 2.1 and if you do a traceroute from 1.6 it should trace through to 1.1

The other option is to set up a VPN for each link. That's a story for another night though.

Now, getting back to that RB411 in town.

Create a mangle rule to mark all packets from 192.168.1.2 as route_1 and all packets from 192.168.2.2 as route_2.

Winbox -> Interface + PPPoE client. Add your ISP account for farmhouse 1 and make sure "default route" is unchecked.

Once the link is established (R next to the name). Select the default route option and see what IP address appears in IP - Routes as the default gateway.

Uncheck "default route" and add a manual route 0.0.0.0/0 with that IP address as the gateway, but make sure that you select the correct routing mark from the drop down list further down the page. That way, traffic remains separated all the time.

You need to add static routes to 192.168.1.4/30 via 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.2.4/30 via 192.168.2.2

You should then be able to ping the radios at the farmhouses from the RB in town.

A word of advice. Put one client onto let's say WebAfrica and the other one onto let's say Cybersmart. It'll make routing easier as they will have different default gateways.

 

[robgun]

This is probably the most informative thread I have found.. Well done guys.

 

[rebel998]

Some very clever people here dude.

 

[captainwifi]

RB433 is supplied with L4 licence.
Before you rush out and buy solar panels, let me share my experience with you.
I have this solar panel, this regulator and two Deltec 1250 batteries.

Another option is combining Stirling engines with thermal batteries, it is even cheaper than pure eskom power:
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Sasecurity#Energy_security

=== Wind energy ===
Hack the http://www.homeenergy.se , http://www.helixwind.com [[WindEnergy] patents.

=== Thermal battery powering Stirling engine ===
* [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z2bjsKyaYw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
* http://www.whispergen.com/main/technology/ ''1Kw electric output, $22000 USD retail ''
* http://www.whispergen.com/content/library/Don_Clucas_Stirling_engine_generator_development.pdf
* http://www.qalovis.com ''38kw electric output Stirling engine commercially available in Germany''
WhisperGen™ is probably the only commercial [[StirlingEngine]] available to the public and only in New Zealand - http://www.volpower.co.nz/wawcs0131756/ln-whispergen.html. A patented mechanism, the '''Wobble Yoke''', transfers the vertical motion of the pistons to the rotary motion of the alternator. The DC WhisperGen works well in conjunction with other forms of electrical or heating generation including [[Solar Energy]].
See [[HackPatents]] as why we can morally and ethically reverse engineer the design and build our engines in South - Africa --[[SolarLinks]] -- via a [[FrontingCompany]].

The heat to the engine is provided by any heat source such as [[MoltenSalt]] or [[Solar Energy]]. Buy the machine, strip it apart, scan every nut and bolt with a 3D-laser scanner(accurate to 0.001mm) upload the files in Autocad format together with the patent on the Internet.(this isn't illegal in any country because the patent is supposed to protect the IP). String 11 of these in parallel , combined with power electronics for a single AC wave, which in turn is converted into 3-phase AC 10Kwatt to power agriculture pumps or SA won' t have food in 5years because farmers can't pay the rates.

See http://wims.unice.fr/xiao/solar/storage.html for the creation of a thermal battery via a hermetic heat resistant steel case, of whatever size and shape. Operating at a temperature range of 150°C-350°C, the storage capacity is usually 50-100kWh/m3. Thermal batteries maintain their heat energy through the night. This allows a [[StirlingEngine]] and [[WindEnergy]]to provide 24hours of electricity. [[MoltenSalt]] is another option.
Setup Solar array heliostats, Fresnel, parabolic or troughs design from http://www.svvti.com/about.htm to heat up oil to 300Cdegrees.

Any open piece of field as close as possible to the residences is used if the owner has no space for a [[FresnelLens]] from http://www.svvti.com/about.htm or don't wish to install throughs on his roof. The container is hoisted onto a truck and just like a milk truck of old stops by every home to swap out the oil containers(cold , hot) adjacent to the wall. The hot oil is used to power a patent hacked(Godly, righteous Xtian thing to do) http://www.whispergen.com [[StirlingEngine]] for home electricity generation. The cold oil pumped back into a second container which is removed by the truck to be "recharged" back to 100Kwatt by the sun.

In places where space is an issue install http://www.svvti.com/about.htm [[FresnelLens]]/[[ParabolicTrough]] on the roof. The industrial scale 10Mwatt commercial long range trough designs are for turbines because 3Mwatt Stirling engines can't be made. The http://www.whispergen.com/main/technology/ has a 22% efficiency , while Eskom's turbines have a 15% efficiency. Double the energy is achieved with the same lump of coal in a [[StirlingEngine]]. During wet weather burn coal to power the engine. Estates for example could setup a 1/3 hecter [[StirlingEngine]] plant on an open field across them and connect hundreds of engines for electricity generation, desalination and hydrogen. Sewege treatment is also done like this. Municipalities could negotiate a license with Whispergen etc. But they need to be in a position to negotiate which is why we use fronting compannies for private micro energy generation, we could then manufacture the engines ourselves for the municipalities after the patent holder relents and realizes that it is better to at least get a small royalty rather then nothing. It would be impossible to enforce a patent against private homes but semi-government won't be able to use fronting companies. The opensource way of doing things must be extended to hardware: if something breaks then fix it, instead of the present confrontational model where a company or product is denounced, rather implement the correct technology to save our water and environment.

The Whispergen retails for $USD 22000 in New Zealand, but that is because of all the patent royalties that have to be paid, the actual mechanical linkages, wobble yokes etc, DIY will be a fraction of this. The weight of the engine in metal should roughly indicate its true value. What does 50kg of steel cost?

 

[captainwifi]

If you run the Highsites in AP mode,then you can connect other customers to it , do not think so in bridge mode.Speak under correction.(not legal if you do not have a license)

I presume you have a Vans license of some sort? Would you refer me to the criminal court case that established what exactly is illegal. You do realize that only the courts decide what is legal or not.....sigh......

There was a posting with someone from Sutherland not too long ago with the same connection, yeah Telkom cannot provide these services, think of the additional services you can run, VoIP, security infra-red cameras or RFID tags for monitoring livestock (wishlist)

You mean farm and bush security? Here is a write-up:
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Sasecurity#Farm_security

=== Farm security ===
Setup mini wi-fi/[[FreeSpaceOptics]] basestations in the bush, powered by [[StirlingEngine]]s, [[WindEnergy], chemical [[BatteryTech]] and thermal "batteries" based on [[MoltenSalt]]s or oil, surround the base with PIR sensors,[[InfraRedLeds]] a camera focuses on intrusion point when activated. Scatter [[SmartDust]],PIR sensors on 433Mhz that communicates with these nodes. Combine with low power consuming [[FpGa]] motion detection powered by small 25watt [[StirlingEngine]]s, [[FresnelLens]] combination. Cheap single chip analogue 2.4ghz, 868Mhz [[RadioModems]] video chips with small mass produced CCD camera sends a snapshot (200m-2km) to the base node on a PIR trigger, preventing false alarms from bush-pigs for example. Or use a higher powered amp 1watt signal on 433Mhz to only send a video signal on intrusion, protecting the spectrum.

On detecting an intrusion around the wi-fi node(camera snapshot sent to farmer) a single UAV shared between the farmers is sent out to the wi-fi node with security and tracker dogs. By protecting the base nodes at farm entrances,perimeters, rivers and wider bush the farmers gain control over the security situation. The farm crime issue is largely a result of not being able to provide cost effective energy at wi-fi nodes with solar panels, [[StirlingEngine]] designs have solved this. Each wi-fi node base integrates with sensors in a 400m diameter. String 20 such nodes in a line creating a fence 8km in length or up to any length for that matter. Where Fresnel zones is a problem , connect each wi-fi base with FSO.

Idealy farmers should use digital 450Mhz [[CitizensFlashOfdm]] ,combined with embedded [[FpGa]] motion detection modules, (CCD camera),PIR and [[InfraRedLeds]]powered by long duration lithium [[BatteryTech]] or fuel cells. Scatter thousands of such modules across bush areas for automated intrusion detection. The farming community should hack the Flash ofdm designs , instead of spending millions on security guards.

 

[protzkrog]

can likez to do copy and pastings

 

[Ryder_JHB]

omg, when did Cap'n get out of Azkhaban??

 

[protzkrog]

it was Frikkie!

 

[captainwifi]

=== Farm security ===
Setup mini wi-fi/[[FreeSpaceOptics]] basestations in the bush, powered by [[StirlingEngine]]s, [[WindEnergy], chemical [[BatteryTech]] and thermal "batteries" based on [[MoltenSalt]]s or oil, surround the base with PIR sensors,[[InfraRedLeds]] a camera focuses on intrusion point when activated. Scatter [[SmartDust]],PIR sensors on 433Mhz that communicates with these nodes. Combine with low power consuming [[FpGa]] motion detection powered by small 25watt [[StirlingEngine]]s, [[FresnelLens]] combination. Cheap single chip analogue 2.4ghz, 868Mhz [[RadioModems]] video chips with small mass produced CCD camera sends a snapshot (200m-2km) to the base node on a PIR trigger, preventing false alarms from bush-pigs for example. Or use a higher powered amp 1watt signal on 433Mhz to only send a video signal on intrusion, protecting the spectrum.

On detecting an intrusion around the wi-fi node(camera snapshot sent to farmer) a single UAV shared between the farmers is sent out to the wi-fi node with security and tracker dogs. By protecting the base nodes at farm entrances,perimeters, rivers and wider bush the farmers gain control over the security situation. The farm crime issue is largely a result of not being able to provide cost effective energy at wi-fi nodes with solar panels, [[StirlingEngine]] designs have solved this. Each wi-fi node base integrates with sensors in a 400m diameter. String 20 such nodes in a line creating a fence 8km in length or up to any length for that matter. Where Fresnel zones is a problem , connect each wi-fi base with FSO.

Idealy farmers should use digital 450Mhz [[CitizensFlashOfdm]] ,combined with embedded [[FpGa]] motion detection modules, (CCD camera),PIR and [[InfraRedLeds]]powered by long duration lithium [[BatteryTech]] or fuel cells. Scatter thousands of such modules across bush areas for automated intrusion detection. The farming community should hack the Flash ofdm designs , instead of spending millions on security guards.

This section must be added:

Any number of PIR, [[SerialCameras]] or [[RadioModems]] devices are connected to say a 400m [[TwistedPair]] wire inside a 15mm polypipe laid with [[VibratoryPlow]], these will be the slave nodes. The wire will be both for [[RS485]] communication and to recharge the [[BatteryTech]] lithium pack of each device from the base FSO or Wi-fi station. The master node at the wi-fi base sends a signal to each device in return indicating whether it will be recharged or not. A relay switch on each slave node selects between charging and sending data back in charge/data send cycle. Since not each node will trigger at the same time, no intrusions will go past undetected. Should there be an intrusion while another node is briefly recharged , the slave node will transmit such data on its internal clock allowing it to connect. By charging each node in sequence a much reduced AWG size such as AWG24 can be used reducing costs considerably. Such a 400m or 800m length node with sensors it will operate for years until the battery packs die.

Installing hundreds of [[HackPatents]] pet-safe PIR sensors in the bush is unfeasible if the batteries have to be manually changed because the person changing it could sabotage the devices and mark their positions.