Afrihost CAPPED ADSL Feedback (MTN)

[techead]

It's something that's on our network all the time, regardless of demand at the time.
Obviously it's only active when demand is high though.

so its a protection mechanism of sorts? to protect your clients when :contention: is too high?

 

[image132]

Remember that even when your Uncapped account is shaped, realtime services will never be affected.

Are you sure? A while ago I referred a friend to AH where he got his line managed by you guys and got a 2mb normal uncapped account. A few months down the line he's getting 350 ping to our mumble server that's hosted in cape town, he's never not shaped and the throttling you've applied to his account is so bad that it's causing packet loss which makes it hard to understand him as his sentences are getting cut off and he's getting dropped from online games.

He said he's tried contacting AH multiple times and was basically told nothing is wrong, it's being caused by the shaping, deal with it.

 

[techead]

so its a protection mechanism of sorts? to protect your clients when :contention: is too high?

@Afriguy

waiting for an answer

 

[AfriGuy]

Are you sure? A while ago I referred a friend to AH where he got his line managed by you guys and got a 2mb normal uncapped account. A few months down the line he's getting 350 ping to our mumble server that's hosted in cape town, he's never not shaped and the throttling you've applied to his account is so bad that it's causing packet loss which makes it hard to understand him as his sentences are getting cut off and he's getting dropped from online games.

He said he's tried contacting AH multiple times and was basically told nothing is wrong, it's being caused by the shaping, deal with it.

100%
Realtime services are always unshaped, it's a semi-shaped product

Ask him to drop me a PM with some tests results, I'm sure I can see what's going wrong here.

 

[AfriGuy]

so its a protection mechanism of sorts? to protect your clients when :contention: is too high?

Correct.
Latency and the overall experience is always important to us. So when demand spikes, like it has here we see P2P and downloads degrade.

 

[techead]

Correct.
Latency and the overall experience is always important to us. So when demand spikes, like it has here we see P2P and downloads degrade.

its a system that activates when the load is high. ok now that we got that out the way...

what is the difference between the above and shaping a specific type of traffic??

please explain the difference to me

 

[AfriGuy]

its a system that activates when the load is high. ok now that we got that out the way...

what is the difference between the above and shaping a specific type of traffic??

please explain the difference to me

As mentioned, it's something that's always there along with a whole stack of other protections running on our network.
Shaping actively looks for traffic and shapes it, and it only active on Uncapped packages.

 

[Mark.K]

So basically it's like shaping but it's only activated when the network is under pressure?

 

[AfriGuy]

So basically it's like shaping but it's only activated when the network is under pressure?

No, this is a protection mechanism.
There's a sparse difference between that and shaping. A brief example is available on post #5007

 

[Gatecrasher]

As mentioned, it's something that's always there along with a whole stack of other protections running on our network.
Shaping actively looks for traffic and shapes it, and it only active on Uncapped packages.

You didn't explain the difference.

 

[techead]

As mentioned, it's something that's always there along with a whole stack of other protections running on our network.
Shaping actively looks for traffic and shapes it, and it only active on Uncapped packages.

would you agree that the end effect is the same?

whether being shaped on an uncapped product or "protected" on a capped product it comes down to the same thing? agreed?

Im referring to P2P traffic here, under the current conditions.

 

[AfriGuy]

would you agree that the end effect is the same?

whether being shaped or "protected" it comes down to the same thing?

Im referring to P2P traffic here, under the current conditions.

Nope, they're two entirely different things.
Uncapped accounts are designed as semi-shaped to get the maximum out of our network in terms of performance vs the overall cost. A protection against the network to avoid sky high contention and massive latency is very, very different to shaping.

 

[techead]

Nope, they're two entirely different things.
Uncapped accounts are designed as semi-shaped to get the maximum out of our network in terms of performance vs the overall cost. A protection against the network to avoid sky high contention and massive latency is very, very different to shaping.

read what I wrote again. I understand they are different things.

Would you agree that the END EFFECT is the same? (on my side, as the consumer)

 

[AfriGuy]

read what I wrote again. I understand they are different things.

Would you agree that the END EFFECT is the same? (on my side, as the consumer)

Also different. It can vary from region to region, be active one hour and not the next.

 

[Greg27]

At the moment, we are seeing increased demand in all regions (North, South & East) of our DSL network. We have partially addressed these issues by upgrading software on our shaping management system.

Says it all there...

I wonder whats up in the West?

 

[techead]

Also different. It can vary from region to region, be active one hour and not the next.

You skirting the issue.

If you shaping P2P traffic on uncapped or "protecting" on capped, it amounts to the same thing for the consumer. Slow throughput. ie. crap download speed.

Are you not prepared to concede that?

 

[Worskos]

Capped is definitely not shaped, however due to demand issues P2P and downloads may be degraded.
With the upgrades in place this will be a thing of the past though.

Remember that even when your Uncapped account is shaped, realtime services will never be affected.

demand issues P2P and downloads may be degraded

I don't know hey.
This statement worries me more that just a little bit, isn't this the very definition of shaping?

I'm worried that moving to a capped account is not gonna better my experience and looking through this forum, I have found nothing to assuage my doubts.

 

[AfriGuy]

You skirting the issue.

If you shaping P2P traffic on uncapped or "protecting" on capped, it amounts to the same thing for the consumer. Slow throughput.

Are you not prepared to concede that?

They're different technically though.
It can also be similar to a line issue, rate limited account or a congested exchange. So in terms of that - they may be the same.

 

[Gatecrasher]

Nope, they're two entirely different things.
Uncapped accounts are designed as semi-shaped to get the maximum out of our network in terms of performance vs the overall cost. A protection against the network to avoid sky high contention and massive latency is very, very different to shaping.

You avoid sky high contention and massive latency by not over-selling your products, and ensuring that your contention ratios are sufficiently low to cater for periods of peak demand.

Any "protection" that you build in is most definitely shaping.

 

[techead]

They're different technically though.
It can also be similar to a line issue, rate limited account or a congested exchange. So in terms of that - they may be the same.

lets not beat around the bush here, leave all the congestion/line issues etc etc to the side. its not relevant to what Im talking to

please explain to me, why as a capped user Im am seeing that APPEARS to be shaping... when I know its not. Its actually you "protecting" the network, because of your poor planning.

The bottom line is that the result is the same for me the end user, and right now I sit with a 20mb line that is capped, unshaped but PROTECTED into the ground. How is that any different from having a SHAPED line? No wonder people are confused!

On what grounds to you decide that P2P gets the axe? for capped

Do you understand where I am going with this?