Afrihost ISPA ruling upheld

[MagicDude4Eva]

So Afrihost is now switching over to the 'NEW' network.

Will they still have to place the disclaimer

"I order that the ISP make it patently clear on initial perusal of its websites that it is experiencing technical difficulties and that service it may not meet the offered service levels at this time. This information should be communicated upfront on the website, and pro-actively to each existing and potential customer until such time as these issues are resolved."

What people tend to forget is that the complaint is related to the service performance delivered over the last 12 months (Aug '14 - Jul '15). ISPA ruled the sanction based on not just the service delivery over the last 12 months but also based on customer complaints surfacing on HelloPeter/MyBB and other media between Jul ' 15 - Sep '15. Even during the POC period of 4 months mixed results were reported and it appears that not all issues are resolved and that service during the POC could not be consistently provided (I think anyone can understand that a POC network will not have the resilience/scalability of a future production network, hence I disregard any POC issues).

My expectation is that with a big change like this, there will be massive problems as I doubt that AH has properly considered all scalability- and infrastructure issues. After all they are introducing new equipment (Sandvine - which has been successfully used by other ISPs in this country, so nothing revolutionary in SA as it has been done years before.... erm VOX introduced it with their Samsung promo). Assuming that a closely managed test network with 5000 users can cope with all customers might just be a very naive view. I do hope that AH has learned from past mistakes and will remedy the various compliance issues going forward. It is a huge risk to switch to new service providers with new backbones and peering agreements. Just making sure that service issues have the proper SLAs and escalation paths is something which takes time to establish.

I actually appealed the ISPA sanction regarding how the information should be displayed and the imposed future fine, as I feel that the company has been aware of the issues for too long and has not taken the necessary proactive action. It is also naive from the company to believe that introducing a new network which will resolve all issues of the last 12 months will relieve the company of the accountability/service issues for the period prior to the new network introduction.

Sadly, no other ISPA or ASA complaint was lodged by ANYONE, despite plenty of people complaining. The lack of participation in such consumer activism allows any company to provide sub-standard service without ever taking accountability. People just feel it is less effort to either stick it out for months and post occasional traceroutes or just move on to another service provider.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Sadly, no other ISPA or ASA complaint was lodged by ANYONE, despite plenty of people complaining. The lack of participation in such consumer activism allows any company to provide sub-standard service without ever taking accountability. People just feel it is less effort to either stick it out for months and post occasional traceroutes or just move on to another service provider.

I personally wouldn't even know how to start lodging a complaint to ASA or ISPA, and so opted for the easy route.

I think it would be helpful to everyone if you would create a thread specifically for that purpose, as I feel people don't take companies to task because they don't know how to approach it in the right way.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

I am well aware that any customer expect quality service for which they are paying. It seems that there is a perception that I’m defending Afrihost’s actions which is not the case.
What I’m doing is to show that Afrihost has a right to challenge any legal procedure that is brought against them.
I also pointed out that it is commendable that Afrihost subscribed to the ISPA code of conduct. They could easily have sidestepped the predicament they find themselves in if they didn’t.

well in all honesty, its not like any other ISP offers amazing service, or is at all times honest with their customers. In fact, it happens in almost all industries, where you not getting what you paid for. So even if Afrihost or any other ISP advertises something great, there is a chance that things can break, or it doesnt work as advertised. You can basically just try and rectify the mistake, or try and resolve the issue as best as they possibly could.

 

[ghostR]

You can basically just try and rectify the mistake, or try and resolve the issue as best as they possibly could.

Which they did not do...

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Which they did not do...

i dont know the specifics behind it, but if thats the case then fine. but i find it hard to believe that they couldnt resolve an issue over that long a period. Surely at some point, somebody from AH had to try and remedy the situation.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Update - just got feedback from ISPA, that they rejected my appeal of the ruling:

As the ruling went against the ISPA member, only they can appeal.

However, they have not yet done so it's unlikely they will. Any sanctions or fines now become active.

I objected to this, since a complainant can appeal (http://ispa.org.za/code-of-conduct/procedure/):

Section 12) If either the complainant or the service provider believes that the adjudicator has made an incorrect decision, an appeal can be lodged with ISPA’s Management Committee within ten working days of the distribution of the adjudicator’s resolution to the parties. If no appeal is lodged within ten working days, then the matter will be considered closed.

ASASA also provided feedback and by the looks of it, my email highlighting 7 ASASA procedural violations was also not welcome and they seem to now want to have each procedural violation as a separate complaint (not sure why, but I might just need to do a bigger copy&paste job tonight).

I am awaiting feedback from ISPA and how they will now enforce the sanctions.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Update - just got feedback from ISPA, that they rejected my appeal of the ruling:



I objected to this, since a complainant can appeal (http://ispa.org.za/code-of-conduct/procedure/):


ASASA also provided feedback and by the looks of it, my email highlighting 7 ASASA procedural violations was also not welcome and they seem to now want to have each procedural violation as a separate complaint (not sure why, but I might just need to do a bigger copy&paste job tonight).

I am awaiting feedback from ISPA and how they will now enforce the sanctions.

Sounds like some money changed hands... Geld wat stom is, maak reg wat krom is.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Sounds like some money changed hands... Geld wat stom is, maak reg wat krom is.

I don't think so. I think I must have been one of the few people ever having lodged a complaint against one of their members and "flooded" them with paperwork.

 

[AntiGanda]

I am well aware that any customer expect quality service for which they are paying. It seems that there is a perception that I’m defending Afrihost’s actions which is not the case.
What I’m doing is to show that Afrihost has a right to challenge any legal procedure that is brought against them.
I also pointed out that it is commendable that Afrihost subscribed to the ISPA code of conduct. They could easily have sidestepped the predicament they find themselves in if they didn’t.

It isn't in my nature to reward any organisation for doing the obvious and correct thing. Joining ISPA is normal and expected of any decent sized ISP.

What does irk customers, is when the ISP flagrantly ignores what they agreed to uphold, and then had the gall to appeal the ruling.

ISP's are the used-car salespeople of the tech world.

 

[Vincent_Thorn]

I would like to have a "best effort" payment system. Full price is asked to use their services...they should then make SURE that the users get max service...or at least close to. So many times users show stats where their line is performing at less than 50%...and then the ISP start the blame game...

+1! Exactly what I said before I left Afrihost. I don't give a **** how they buy traffic - it's completely deal of local ISP CEO - they should define fair rule how to buy and allocate bandwidth. Knowing that sea cables UNDERUSED on 70%, I should show middle finger to all ISP games - you have A LOT of bandwidth and you wash my brains with tales "how it's difficult to buy traffic"??! Buy traffic EVERY WEEK - nothing hard to do! And of course nothing hard to monitor typical monthly usage (and buy appropriate bandwidth).
ALL problems we have has only one source - greedy ISP. They try to service 100% users with 50% bandwidth - why not to f***ck ISP?! (like topic starter)

Down to customers... Game CAN be fair if there will be law: ISP have to provide monitoring tool which shows current load of their cables. Once every user can see cable is 99% busy, it's official reason to judge ISP for providing service under technical abilities.

And despite cable load, user should be able to apply for money back according to provided speed - if I pay R1000 for 10 mbit, but my average speed permanently sit under 7mbit, open your pocket and return me R300! It will be fair and only this way we can teach ISP for better traffic counting.

It seems many ISP still live in apartheid era, when money falls from heaven for free! Now it's time to work! Stop your infantile business like "make price 10x of cost" - it's time to move your fat a$$ and really start competing for customers!

 

[Thor]

Looks like afrihost gave a handshake made of gold won't surprise me actually blatant liars the bunch of them

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I for one am still waiting for a response from ISPA about my appeal on their findings and the response that the complainant can not appeal. None of the sanctions imposed were introduced either, so either there is more going on behind the scenes between the ISPA and ISPA or being an ISPA member is not more than having some logo/mention on some website. From my records ISPA dealt with about 200 COCs in the past two years.

TBH - none of the consumer organisations have either the willpower or legal power to process compliance violations against companies (think ISPA, ICASA, CPA, NCR, FICA, RICA and very soon POPI)

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Update from ISPA:

Hi Gerd,

ISPA's management committee has approved your appeal request and the matter will now be assigned to an appeal panel for review.

Please note this process is likely to conclude only in January 2016 due to the seasonal closure over December.

If you have any additional supporting information please send it to us and include coc.#875 in the subject line.

 

[whatwhat]

Good luck dude.

 

[Rouxenator]

Hopefully they get closed down

 

[Thor]

Update from ISPA:

Hour hero

 

[Thor]

Our*

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Forgot to mention: I have given up on ASASA, as they purposefully stonewalled any attempt of a complaint with non-sensical excuses. To me it appears that ASASA can only handle obvious complaints (i.e. lodge a complaint about a nipple-slip or a dog humping and they are capable of ruling on that quite quickly) and in most cases dismisses them anyhow - http://www.asasa.org.za/rulings/.

Despite what other people say about ISPA, I have found them in all my dealings professional and especially logical (which helps binary people like myself a lot in life). FWIW: I am not "ganging up" against AH, this is merely a consumer matter which I decided to pursue to test how ISPA works with regards to a valid complaint (call it "MagicDude's boring bucketlist") and what actions are taken against an ISP. Perhaps in future this will enable other consumers with similar issues take the ruling as a precedence for their own matters.

I can actually only thank AH for the poor service as it forced me to switch to "that other ISP where data rolls over every month" and I have not been happier since (I am only now experiencing an outage as Johannesburg Water broke my ADSL line).

 

[Aquiva]

Update from ISPA:

And this is exactly why people don't go through the motions to file against an ISP.

I find it so frustrating that the public have to spend more time on trying to resolve issues with companies than the actual people who are appointed to do so at those companies. i.e I get paid for 8 hours to do the work in my profession, why must I keep sending proof and tests and make phone calls and do follow-ups etc. etc. using time out of my day/company to ensure that Telkom/ISPA/Vodacom whoever do the job that they are appointed to do!

 

[Rouxenator]

Shut Afrihost down already.