Afrihost Uncapped ADSL Feedback (Pt2)

[Leatherman]

One is in response to a specific question regarding mails being sent out saying our network is saturated (which was not the case). We've said consistently that demand has exceeded available capacity and while we initially were confident that usage would return to normal (according to our analysis) this was not the case.

If you think that's spinning the truth, I'm not sure what more I can say

Well now I am even more confused. Do you have capacity or don't you. Simple question so give me a simple anwer.

 

[AfriMan]

Well now I am even more confused. Do you have capacity or don't you. Simple question so give me a simple anwer.

As I've said, we had a certain amount of capacity with a certain amount of usage on the network, everyone was happy, shaping was minimal. Usage spiked around the time of iOS 7's release, and we felt (justifiably so) that usage would settle and we would have sufficient capacity for the usual level of demand. However, even though demand did decrease, it did not do so significantly enough for us to go back to the shaping we had previously. When it became clear that usage would be be decreasing further, began emergency planning to see what short and long term options would be available to us.

Until we can implement some significant changes to the network, shaping is the most effective way to manage the network so that real tim priority services are preserved, and clients still get the maximum bandwidth benefit when there is less demand.

 

[sparke]

Well I did get an Abuse letter but never got throttled did try my damnedest tough.

When I did 600GB I got a warning last year but no mail of the pending changes.

You are giving me the proof I need that it is impossible to be throttled if you abide by the shaping rules, you will however need to bypass the shaping to be throttled, this prooves my point in another thread that download managers Typically attempt to bypass shaping

 

[AfriMan]

When I did 600GB I got a warning last year but no mail of the pending changes.

You are giving me the proof I need that it is impossible to be throttled if you abide by the shaping rules, you will however need to bypass the shaping to be throttled, this prooves my point in another thread that download managers Typically attempt to bypass shaping

Sounds like you guys are discussing another ISP here. Maybe PM each other, as it may confuse other forumites who don't know that this is not related to how Afrihost works

 

[sparke]

I can do this, a question for you. I get told that afrihost is very transparent so can you tell me how much GB a customer gets to before you cancel his account if he is bypassing your shaping? so we can estimate how long it will take for the heavy users to booted off. this may help us in our confidence

 

[KinsZA]

I can do this, a question for you. I get told that afrihost is very transparent so can you tell me how much GB a customer gets to before you cancel his account if he is bypassing your shaping? so we can estimate how long it will take for the heavy users to booted off. this may help us in our confidence

They dont care about your usage just if shaping policies have to be applied then the high usage will be the ones affect the most, when an ISP has a uncapped leaderboard like an achievement system they not going to boot you off.

http://www.afrihost.com/site/page/uncapped_adsl_leader_board?src=uncapped

EDIT: With regards to people actually bypassing and breaking AUP/TOS/Whatever I'd rather them not tell people how/what/when since as soon as the heavy users know the limit they know what to stay under. Instead of get warned and then come whine here before leaving.

 

[AfriMan]

I can do this, a question for you. I get told that afrihost is very transparent so can you tell me how much GB a customer gets to before you cancel his account if he is bypassing your shaping? so we can estimate how long it will take for the heavy users to booted off. this may help us in our confidence

We don't cancel accounts or issue usage warning letters. Our harshest shaping is the most heavy handed we get with any of our clients. We don't work with thresholds, so there is no limit or minimum that shaping acts, it acts dynamically on as many users as it needs to (starting from the most aggressive users) to match demand to our available capacity.

We don't boot clients off unless they violate our AUP. SPAM, Copyright infringement, etc could result in suspension. Bypassing shaping using deliberate means would also be considered an AUP violation and could result in suspension of services.

 

[Talentloos]

They dont care about your usage just if shaping policies have to be applied then the high usage will be the ones affect the most, when an ISP has a uncapped leaderboard like an achievement system they not going to boot you off.

http://www.afrihost.com/site/page/uncapped_adsl_leader_board?src=uncapped

EDIT: With regards to people actually bypassing and breaking AUP/TOS/Whatever I'd rather them not tell people how/what/when since as soon as the heavy users know the limit they know what to stay under. Instead of get warned and then come whine here before leaving.

Yes. Im not on there. Will have to start using more bandwith if I get the speed of my line :banghead:

 

[sparke]

They dont care about your usage just if shaping policies have to be applied then the high usage will be the ones affect the most, when an ISP has a uncapped leaderboard like an achievement system they not going to boot you off.

http://www.afrihost.com/site/page/uncapped_adsl_leader_board?src=uncapped

SO you believe that we guys not bypassing is affected by the high end users that are and afrihost is OK with this?

Their AUP says otherwise

Are there ways around QoS so I can download more?

The QoS is an important feature which protects the integrity of the network and ensures that all clients get the best experience. We strongly discourage (and take active measures to prevent) clients from using means which bypass or override our network management. This constitutes abuse of our network, and will be dealt with as such.

So afriman/guy how do you deal with these guys, I know when you could afford it you placed them on the leaderboard and gave them a lollipop, what do you do now when they hurt you network and reputation?

 

[Leatherman]

As I've said, we had a certain amount of capacity with a certain amount of usage on the network, everyone was happy, shaping was minimal. Usage spiked around the time of iOS 7's release, and we felt (justifiably so) that usage would settle and we would have sufficient capacity for the usual level of demand. However, even though demand did decrease, it did not do so significantly enough for us to go back to the shaping we had previously. When it became clear that usage would be be decreasing further, began emergency planning to see what short and long term options would be available to us.

Until we can implement some significant changes to the network, shaping is the most effective way to manage the network so that real tim priority services are preserved, and clients still get the maximum bandwidth benefit when there is less demand.

Thanks this is the most honest answer I read here so far. In the meantime I am Using a capped account for what I need. I must say thought I am very Impressed with that and can definitely promote that. Does the business uncapped work the same?
I presume that I will not be able to download at my line sink speed but rather my package speed?

 

[sparke]

We don't cancel accounts or issue usage warning letters. Our harshest shaping is the most heavy handed we get with any of our clients. We don't work with thresholds, so there is no limit or minimum that shaping acts, it acts dynamically on as many users as it needs to (starting from the most aggressive users) to match demand to our available capacity.

We don't boot clients off unless they violate our AUP. SPAM, Copyright infringement, etc could result in suspension. Bypassing shaping using deliberate means would also be considered an AUP violation and could result in suspension of services.

So you agree that you boot off abusers, the same MWEB has done until they got to a point where even this is not viable. I am sure your directors are sitting with the same decision hence the delay in applying for IPC. You will need to boot the abusers to avoid higher costs or force them to upgrade.

So if I am unshaped and estimated for the moth is 300, does this mean anyone more than that is clearly bypassing and the should be "dealt with"

what if they bypass shaping beyond their knowledge, your AUP covers this as well

Clients are responsible for any misuse of Afrihost's services that occurs through the client's account. It is the client's responsibility to ensure that unauthorised persons do not gain access to or misuse Afrihost's service.

what if it is not a person but a download manager causing the bypassing?

 

[AfriMan]

SO you believe that we guys not bypassing is affected by the high end users that are and afrihost is OK with this?

Their AUP says otherwise

Are there ways around QoS so I can download more?

The QoS is an important feature which protects the integrity of the network and ensures that all clients get the best experience. We strongly discourage (and take active measures to prevent) clients from using means which bypass or override our network management. This constitutes abuse of our network, and will be dealt with as such.

So afriman/guy how do you deal with these guys, I know when you could afford it you placed them on the leaderboard and gave them a lollipop, what do you do now when they hurt you network and reputation?

Where we identify that someone is abusing the network, they are sent an abuse letter and their services are suspended if they do not send a satisfactory response within a predefined time period. The problem is that it's very hard to tell, which is why they may manage to get away with it. But we have no solid evidence that anyone on the leaderboard is there through questionable means.

 

[sparke]

Where we identify that someone is abusing the network, they are sent an abuse letter and their services are suspended if they do not send a satisfactory response within a predefined time period. The problem is that it's very hard to tell, which is why they may manage to get away with it. But we have no solid evidence that anyone on the leaderboard is there through questionable means.

But now you will have at the end of the month as the shaping has been so severe?

 

[AfriMan]

Thanks this is the most honest answer I read here so far. In the meantime I am Using a capped account for what I need. I must say thought I am very Impressed with that and can definitely promote that. Does the business uncapped work the same?
I presume that I will not be able to download at my line sink speed but rather my package speed?

Yes, that's correct, Business and Uncapped are limited to the package speed, regardless of line sync. Otherwise Business performs and is pooled as a Capped account. The other difference is that it's locked to a single line where Capped can manage concurrent connections (up to 10)

 

[AfriMan]

So you agree that you boot off abusers, the same MWEB has done until they got to a point where even this is not viable. I am sure your directors are sitting with the same decision hence the delay in applying for IPC. You will need to boot the abusers to avoid higher costs or force them to upgrade.

So if I am unshaped and estimated for the moth is 300, does this mean anyone more than that is clearly bypassing and the should be "dealt with"

what if they bypass shaping beyond their knowledge, your AUP covers this as well

Clients are responsible for any misuse of Afrihost's services that occurs through the client's account. It is the client's responsibility to ensure that unauthorised persons do not gain access to or misuse Afrihost's service.

what if it is not a person but a download manager causing the bypassing?

Any means used to bypass our network management constitutes a breach of our AUP. Basically you are undoing what we are doing to preserve the network and thereby unfairly influencing other client's experience negatively. The same as sending spam or introducing viruses onto the network. Our first priority is the network, as that affects everyone of our clients.

 

[AfriMan]

But now you will have at the end of the month as the shaping has been so severe?

It is possible that it could be realtime usage. Unless we have conclusive proof that devious means were used, we can't really do much. We don't have an excessive use policy to enforce

 

[sparke]

Any means used to bypass our network management constitutes a breach of our AUP. Basically you are undoing what we are doing to preserve the network and thereby unfairly influencing other client's experience negatively. The same as sending spam or introducing viruses onto the network. Our first priority is the network, as that affects everyone of our clients.

Is afrihost attempting to find possible abuse as the reason for the demand spike?

 

[sparke]

Any means used to bypass our network management constitutes a breach of our AUP. Basically you are undoing what we are doing to preserve the network and thereby unfairly influencing other client's experience negatively. The same as sending spam or introducing viruses onto the network. Our first priority is the network, as that affects everyone of our clients.

Is afrihost attempting to find possible abuse as the reason for the demand spike?

 

[saa044]

Shaping Policy: 18.8% Download/ 6.25% P2P

Afriman, im only asking 50/50 for tonight, pretty please.

 

[SL1v3R]

The leadership board was and is a stupid idea. Firstly you attract the abusive crowd and next drive up unnecessary usage because the message gets interpreted that everybody should try and maximise their facility. Now 90% of your users are getting screwed by 10% of users... Well done AH... The genie is out of the bottle...