Android is not winning...

IMO, even Android 2.1 is beter than IOS. I ofcourse use roms to stay ontop of the newest Android OS (currently on 2.3.7). My wife got herself a Moto Defy last year, it was on 2.1 now on 2.2 over the air update. With 2.1 and now with 2.2 she can still do what I can do. Android rocks.

Edit: you may be behind with a version number, but not on functionality
 
Elimentals said:
I totally understand your point if that was the argument ie: that SGS2 is better than iPhone 4s, but it was not the case in this thread. The debate is about Android as a whole or that is how I view it. If the other numbers are correct ie: that a single Android device out sold a single iPhone I would really start to worry for Apple's sake purely because not everyone likes the SGS2 example me or the people that opt for say the Samsung Note or Nexus.
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You sir, are correct... The OP was to point out an article where the author raised some of his issues with Android in the face of being told Android was "winning". The OP quoted US sales figures where Apple devices were 1, 2 and 3 in an attempt to point out that Android "winning" wasn't so clear-cut. That NPD graph has Android at a 60% market share in Q3/2011 and 47% in October and November while Apple went from 26% to 43% over the same period. I have to agree with him. The SGS and iPhone thing, well I was just following Hilton Tarrant's lead.

[/QUOTE]That is a lot of choice right there, I see you can have a 4.3" or 4" screen as well as sliding keyboards, also would love to see an iPhone in the shape of a BB... oh wait you cant. You have one option and one option only, take it or leave it.[/QUOTE]

Love my 3.5" screen (plus, there's an old 9.7" one hand if I need anything bigger), I don't like sliding keyboards, in fact I don't like physical keyboards on any phone and I also think the 4 is one of the best looking phones ever... You like water resistance, I like tons of music... Hey, I think we both win this round.

[/QUOTE]Well your counter point only use US sales numbers where the others use World numbers so I guess thats where the difference comes in? In this case you can also argue that the 4S was not immediately available in the other countries.[/QUOTE]

Kinda like the OP... and using a late launch of 4S as and excuse would show a distinct lack of testicular fortitude in my first foray into an Android forum. :)

EDIT: Apparently I need to do some homework on responding to individual points when quoting in my replies... Eish!
 
beans100 said:
IMO, even Android 2.1 is beter than IOS. I ofcourse use roms to stay ontop of the newest Android OS (currently on 2.3.7). My wife got herself a Moto Defy last year, it was on 2.1 now on 2.2 over the air update. With 2.1 and now with 2.2 she can still do what I can do. Android rocks.

Edit: you may be behind with a version number, but not on functionality
Click to expand...

In what way is Android v2.1 better than iOS?

I have devices from both sides, Galaxy S, LG Optimus, Salaxy Y, Nokia Xpressmusic, Galaxy Tab 7", Apple iPods(4 x 4th Gen), iPhone 4S, Apple iPad. Yes I'm a gadget freak I know so don't ask. Both devices are good, they have their pro's and cons. My first Android devices was the Galaxy S, I never flashed it, but I liked playing around with the widgets, live wallpapers etc, but since using the iOS, I don't do that anymore for both devices I just activate them open the applications menu and use whatever app I want to use, people have to outgrow this mentality of mine is better than yours.

Side note, Blackberry is a POS, kill me if you see me using one again.
 
one thing where droid is behind is enlarging text. when droid fix or correct this, I will be happy.
 
beans100 said:
IMO, even Android 2.1 is beter than IOS. I ofcourse use roms to stay ontop of the newest Android OS (currently on 2.3.7). My wife got herself a Moto Defy last year, it was on 2.1 now on 2.2 over the air update. With 2.1 and now with 2.2 she can still do what I can do. Android rocks.

Edit: you may be behind with a version number, but not on functionality
Click to expand...

Dude, I also had the SGS on 2.1 and I can definitely tell you 2.1 wasn't as good as iOS. In my opinion, Android only really became close to iOS from froyo onwards. But then the SGS did have trouble with Eclair so it might just be that. The only reason I am not that big on iOS is because of the eco-system, where it is a big plus for other people.
 
For the life of me I dont understand why iPhone users always want to use 1 to 1 comparisons and say they are better. You simply can not do that just because of the fact that Android users have a choice. Oh wait, thats because Apple users dont.
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You have to have something to compare. The best is comparable price point phones; e.g. flagship versus flagship; 4S versus Galaxy Nexus for instance. Otherwise iOS's 3 phones have to stand against 30+ competitor phones; at which point 'device activation' numbers naturally will skew towards Android. But then again so do Symbian numbers.
 
cerebus said:
You have to have something to compare. The best is comparable price point phones; e.g. flagship versus flagship; 4S versus Galaxy Nexus for instance. Otherwise iOS's 3 phones have to stand against 30+ competitor phones; at which point 'device activation' numbers naturally will skew towards Android. But then again so do Symbian numbers.
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Fair enough, but then you have to include all the phones at that price point not just one model as Android users still have a choice between different models.
 
Elimentals said:
For the life of me I dont understand why iPhone users always want to use 1 to 1 comparisons and say they are better. You simply can not do that just because of the fact that Android users have a choice. Oh wait, thats because Apple users dont.
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Agreed, bugger all choices barring 1 or 2 every 2 years. Droid is going to clean up, Apple have no chance.... oh wait..... :p
 
Elimentals said:
Fair enough, but then you have to include all the phones at that price point not just one model as Android users still have a choice between different models.
Click to expand...

So you aggregate all the phones together and then compare what? Chassis construction? UI overlays? Numbers of total sales? The only trustworthy comparator is profit numbers, at which point combined model numbers are unreliable because they're pooling profits together, or rather divvying up a pot of money. And nobody else in the industry can even remotely touch Apple's profit margins.
 
cerebus said:
So you aggregate all the phones together and then compare what? Chassis construction? UI overlays? Numbers of total sales? The only trustworthy comparator is profit numbers, at which point combined model numbers are unreliable because they're pooling profits together, or rather divvying up a pot of money. And nobody else in the industry can even remotely touch Apple's profit margins.
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If we could it would have been great to see all the top end Android phones numbers vs iPhone 4s and group all the mid range and compare that to say the iPhone 4 and group the Android budget phones together and compare that to the rest in iPhone line up. Remember in the US you can still get the older iPhones on new contracts with reduced pricing its not like SA where they disappear off the planet as soon as new ones come out. Problem is we can not so end of the day the only true numbers we have is total number of Android activations vs total number of iPhone activations. (Tablets and phones grouped as it is almost impossible to split them up on both platforms)

I think this is as close as we will ever get at comparing the 2 : http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/android-700000/

Well profit is not a good measure either. All Apple's profit margins are telling me is they ripping people off, and laughing all the way to the bank. Yes as an investor I would put my money into Apple, cause I will get return, but as an end user I will think twice cause that money is coming from me.
 
cerebus said:
So you aggregate all the phones together and then compare what? Chassis construction? UI overlays? Numbers of total sales? The only trustworthy comparator is profit numbers, at which point combined model numbers are unreliable because they're pooling profits together, or rather divvying up a pot of money. And nobody else in the industry can even remotely touch Apple's profit margins.
Click to expand...

I always find this interesting. How come apple users love looking at profitability? It says nothing about the phone.

All it says is the mark up is significantly higher. Does the fact that apple puts much higher margins on the products make it a better product?

If so I better start tripling my consultation rates as it will make me amazing:D

Sent from a galaxy, in joburg via tapatalk.
 
Shayd said:
I always find this interesting. How come apple users love looking at profitability? It says nothing about the phone.

All it says is the mark up is significantly higher. Does the fact that apple puts much higher margins on the products make it a better product?

If so I better start tripling my consultation rates as it will make me amazing:D

Sent from a galaxy, in joburg via tapatalk.
Click to expand...

I was thinking exactly the same thing, why would a consumer proudly go on about no other companies profit margin matching their choice of product.
Quality, user friendliness, even sales figures makes sense, but I need the whole profit thing explained to me.
 
There's more to net profit than mark up but ja, I reckon Apple products are for the most part over priced compared to their competitors.

On the flip side though you have a product manufactured well enough to last well over 3 years. Re-sale value is also very good.

I think Apple have done extremely well to get their balance right. Yes their products are expensive but people are prepared to pay the premiums as they appreciate the quality of what they are buying...
 
Shayd said:
I always find this interesting. How come apple users love looking at profitability? It says nothing about the phone.

All it says is the mark up is significantly higher. Does the fact that apple puts much higher margins on the products make it a better product?

If so I better start tripling my consultation rates as it will make me amazing:D

Sent from a galaxy, in joburg via tapatalk.
Click to expand...

We must talk about profitability if we're going to claim 'winners'. Of course we must. If your product is competing with mine, the winner isn't the one who sells the most numbers, it's the one who walks away with the most money. You can keep your numbers if I'm richer than you.

Firstly, Apple products aren't necessarily overpriced. The iPad2 is totally in line with comparably specced Android tabs. The Macbook Air is cheaper than Windows Ultrabooks with the same specs. The iPhone 4, well I don't know how the cost compares to its cost to build for the specifications but in the US the 3GS is now available for $50 on contract which is in line with the lowest end Android phones. There just isn't this same high Apple markup that there used to be though.

Secondly though, the profits mainly don't come from the hardware, they come from the apps and other services. And since iOS apps cost the same, it means that you can directly compare. From an apps point of view actually it's hardly even comparable - apart from the Google integrated apps the Android store is a joke compared to the Apple store, and even to the WP store. You'd have to prove that there was an enormous markup as you claim. Also Apple's profits come from the verticality that they control in the supply chain - they own the profit from every stage of manufacture through to every app and song sold.
 
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There are 2 main models we can look at when it comes to price and profitability in this scenario. One is quality like in the motor industry we can use the examples of say BMW or Mercedes and the other is competition like in the bandwidth market of SA where Telkom can charge more because of the lack of alternatives.

We know its not much to do about the quality of the parts that make up the device as Apple source the from the same factories others do, in fact Apple is known for their bulk purchase or pre-order system that sometimes cause world wide shortages of certain parts.

In the case of Apple I think its more to do about competition than quality. If you want an Android phone you have many OEM's that can supply you a phone with the same specifications so they have to compete in not only quality but also price. Make it to expensive and the user will go to another name. Where in the iOS market there is only one OEM that can supply a product running that OS and that is Apple.
 
Elimentals said:
There are 2 main models we can look at when it comes to price and profitability in this scenario. One is quality like in the motor industry we can use the examples of say BMW or Mercedes and the other is competition like in the bandwidth market of SA where Telkom can charge more because of the lack of alternatives.

We know its not much to do about the quality of the parts that make up the device as Apple source the from the same factories others do, in fact Apple is known for their bulk purchase or pre-order system that sometimes cause world wide shortages of certain parts.

In the case of Apple I think its more to do about competition than quality. If you want an Android phone you have many OEM's that can supply you a phone with the same specifications so they have to compete in not only quality but also price. Make it to expensive and the user will go to another name. Where in the iOS market there is only one OEM that can supply a product running that OS and that is Apple.
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What the hell kind of argument is that? Apple charges more because they monopolize the iOS market?

Well if you are to be taken seriously, it only needs to be pointed out as I already did that the 3GS goes for $50 on contract in the US, which places it DIRECTLY in the same price point as a fairly low end Android alternative. But ... it's just a very incoherent point so I'm scratching my head a bit.
 
cerebus said:
What the hell kind of argument is that? Apple charges more because they monopolize the iOS market?

Well if you are to be taken seriously, it only needs to be pointed out as I already did that the 3GS goes for $50 on contract in the US, which places it DIRECTLY in the same price point as a fairly low end Android alternative. But ... it's just a very incoherent point so I'm scratching my head a bit.
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At the 3GS price range android phones can be had for free, in fact the Android phones that can be compared to iPhone 4's are already free on contracts.

See http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/pda-phones-smartphones.jsp?

So yeah you can not exactly make a lot of money out of free can you?
 
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