Announcing a Community Wi-Fi Mesh

Deploying wifimesh Pty Ltd could take millions of years, if they are going to do it 75m at a time, i can already see them deploying WUG-style long range "pirate" links to bridge their own digital divide (tm), although they will deny this.

I cant see them convincing "hundreds of thousands" of clients to buy their AP's at R2000, not in a country where the majority of the population's monthly earnings are less than 40% of a wifimesh Pty (Ltd) AP's cost.

So we will see them trying to make their profits in the middle/upper class suburbs, and not giving a damn about the poor.

I dont even want to imagine a traceroute covering 1km's distance on wifimesh Pty Ltd, its going to be ugly, they are probably going to use tunnels to hide most of their network infrastructure. Also very unlikely that you'll have administrative privileges on your own router/AP, even though you will pay for it.

Expect high latencies, as wifi pings sky rocket when the radios are handling file transfers.

A 75m link through some common urban obstacles like trees, walls,etc with the equipment as described, wont have perfect <1ms latency, instead expect something between 3ms or 10ms, and when you're adding the additional lag file tranfers will be causing, this network would make even the worst telkom 14k line seem fast.


Crossing a small distance like 1km on wifimesh would be a nightmare. I dont want to think what would happen if someone else's router breaks or get stolen, this could have devastating effects on the wifimesh network. The cost of replacing a wifimesh router is simply too high to replace at short notice, so expect extended down times, until Mr so-and-so saves enough money to buy a wifimesh Pty Ltd router again.

The problems wifimesh users will experience are endless, i hope for the innocent customer's sake, they include backup UPS or alternative power source for these expensive R2000 routers, small isolated power outages (which are common in Gauteng) will cause havoc.:rolleyes:
 
ath0 - you raise some interesting points - I seem to recall something about "3 or 4 hops" maximum - cannot remember which post exactly - will read it later.

Iliyan, has ath0 got a valid point? Or is something getting lost in translation?


(
OK - read back, and found the node count thing:

13/4/2007: 12:02pm - Iliyan:
Our meshes are never larger than 4 hops. In fact, most of them are at 3 hops. And we never scale above 100 nodes.
)
 
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ath0 - you raise some interesting points - I seem to recall something about "3 or 4 hops" maximum - cannot remember which post exactly - will read it later.

Iliyan, has ath0 got a valid point? Or is something getting lost in translation?


(
OK - read back, and found the node count thing:
Quote:
Our meshes are never larger than 4 hops. In fact, most of them are at 3 hops. And we never scale above 100 nodes.

13/4/2007: 12:02pm - Iliyan:

)

Here is the most interesting part. You know that we intend to roll out hundreds of thousands of these APs

Is an AP and a node the same thing in a wifi-mesh (tm) network?
 
I am waiting for Iliyan to answer my questions....(previous page) though.

I have asked a few but have not got answers either...... but then again we live in SA when the customer is there to rip off and make money from and not make them happy.... a happy customer what's that? oh you me like a non corrupt MP.
 
Wow. No reply.
And no invitation either.

There's no way I'm emailing that much personal information to this bunch either, so I most certainly wont be filling out that "join" form.

I'll be in JHB again in December, but I doubt this "venture" will get much further than this...
 
ath0 - you raise some interesting points - I seem to recall something about "3 or 4 hops" maximum - cannot remember which post exactly - will read it later.



Okay so we have network segments which have 4 hops maximum.

-Which means 4 x AP's?
-This covers more or less about 300square meters..
-We have clients on them, all of which need to be <4 hops away from the internet and/or backbone

The above segment would need connectivity to the rest of Wifi Mesh Pty Ltd, or else they would just be tiny community networks, which they are NOT intented to be.

How would Wifi Mesh Pty Ltd be linking all segments of its network together?

They will probably use some of the following ways:

1. Long range 'pirate' links (most probably)

2. Each segment gets a satellite connection to the backbone? (very expensive, certainly not viable)

3. ADSL line (illegal, not viable)


How are they going to get internet connectivity to the isolated segments in less than 4hops? Not likely..

If they are using satellite links to link the different segments together, latency would still be a nightmare, regardless of the hops..

If they manage to make satellite links with latencies of 280ms? (like they say), we can assume the following:

1. Your neighboring segments are going to be atleast 560ms (round trip) away.
2. Any website outside your segment would be further than 280ms away.
3. But atleast, you'll have good pings to your friend 20meters away.

Wifi Mesh Pty Ltd would still be slow, despite the impressive technology it claims to use.
 
Is an AP and a node the same thing in a wifi-mesh (tm) network?

Apparenty clients will be connecting to Wifi Mesh Pty Ltd with a PCI/USB or laptop wifi interface?

I dont think Wifi Mesh Pty Ltd will work as advertised, they are definitely going to use 'pirate' links.
 
so wifi-mesh obviously not interested in spending any more time on this thread it appears! When the going gets tough, wifi-mesh gets going?
 
so wifi-mesh obviously not interested in spending any more time on this thread it appears! When the going gets tough, wifi-mesh gets going?

damn and it was such a popular thread under the Wifi (tm) forum
 
Wow reading this long long thread has made me tired EISH!!

Well quite frankly I don't care who is claiming what and why. If I can get a good Internet connection at a low cost capable of low low latency for proper gaming and streaming at no harm or expense to anyone else then I am happy!

My wifi knowledge is very limited and all I have here is a wifi certified 802.11 b/g card (GN-WPEAG) which I never ever use.

Im too tired right now to check out the site but I hear talk of R2000.00 for the router\equipment\AP or whatever. :( bit steep to get started for me. Do we need that as well or is the card fine?? I also recall the guy mentioning one doesn't need an antenna.

I think good solid evidence of this will go a long way :) its probably the uncertainty of it all that gets to everyone. Like I said a few times before in this forum, "Show a South African a good deal and he wants to know what's the catch!!". Thats because we are so used to being ripped off to no end.
 
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Well, it seems very quiet around here these days... and some of us are STILL waiting for answers to simple questions!
 
Well, its now just over two months to launch, so I am quite excited to see what happens.

It would be great to know what area the initial 50 sq kms will cover, as I may be in that area. Will this initial area have all the benefits of the mesh? or is it a trial phase with just "community" services?

Well, here's hoping Iliyan returns soon (maybe out doing site surveys), and answers all our questions - it would be disappointing indeed if he chooses to adopt the usual "keep silent" approach of other teleco's.
 
Wow reading this long long thread has made me tired EISH!!

Well quite frankly I don't care who is claiming what and why. If I can get a good Internet connection at a low cost capable of low low latency for proper gaming and streaming at no harm or expense to anyone else then I am happy!

My wifi knowledge is very limited and all I have here is a wifi certified 802.11 b/g card (GN-WPEAG) which I never ever use.

Im too tired right now to check out the site but I hear talk of R2000.00 for the router\equipment\AP or whatever. :( bit steep to get started for me. Do we need that as well or is the card fine?? I also recall the guy mentioning one doesn't need an antenna.

I think good solid evidence of this will go a long way :) its probably the uncertainty of it all that gets to everyone. Like I said a few times before in this forum, "Show a South African a good deal and he wants to know what's the catch!!". Thats because we are so used to being ripped off to no end.

Ignore my question about the AP. By reading the coverage section of the website I now know what is required. :)

Wonder if my wireless card will pick anything up with it's scrawny little antenna lol :p

As it is I live in a wireless void where even Vodacom signal is disgusting. Funny thing is its only in my house, the second I walk outside my voda signal is full. This in the Honeydew area of Roodepoort.

Feels weird to be quoting myself.
 
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You're too late!

We have investigated this whole model, and anything similar ad nauseum.

We have finally settled on the following broadband model: We will be hosting weekly dvd-frisbee-throwing training sessions. We will then build a nationwide community network, with true Gigabit performance. All wireless!

Best of all, have you seen optical drive prices lately? All you need is a good open window or balcony, and some training. We've almost finished the software to translate the TCP-IP stack into UDF packet burning. (But basically, each DVD acts similarly to a router. - At a fraction of the price!)

When enough of your neighbours (and their kids) have been to our training sessions, you'll have true broadband! Almost for free! In a good area you can easily achieve internet latencies of under 129000ms and speeds of up to 4000Mbits!)
 
We have investigated this whole model, and anything similar ad nauseum.

We have finally settled on the following broadband model: We will be hosting weekly dvd-frisbee-throwing training sessions. We will then build a nationwide community network, with true Gigabit performance. All wireless!

Best of all, have you seen optical drive prices lately? All you need is a good open window or balcony, and some training. We've almost finished the software to translate the TCP-IP stack into UDF packet burning. (But basically, each DVD acts similarly to a router. - At a fraction of the price!)

When enough of your neighbours (and their kids) have been to our training sessions, you'll have true broadband! Almost for free! In a good area you can easily achieve internet latencies of under 129000ms and speeds of up to 4000Mbits!)

Tunasashimi. would you be interested in a merger - This is something that could benefit the WUG's too!! It sounds absolutely mind blowing! :D
 
Wonder if Tunasashimi's system will be good for WoW? Latency sounds a bit better than SAIX, so here's hoping!
 
Sorry, but really.....

We are trialling a solution to the latency problem this morning. So far it's looking good!

By means of a system of virtual packet-cluster windowing, that integrates seamlessly into the GPST timing system, we are able to simulate near true 0ms latencies. These are, however, "virtual" latencies - but most people won't even notice that!

Part of our solution, is also a fix to the TA timing system used by atomic clocks. This is something we are very concerned about, because based on the current atomic clock standard and modest projections on the slowing of earth orbit, by the year 6013 Friday will be Thursday.

(Pssst! Please don't tell anybody yet, our training sessions are R2500 per head - we have a big broadband player sponsoring most of the overhead costs! We've really worked hard bring this figure so low, but man, sashimi is so expensive!)

(We've secured contracts with several Australian cricketers to conduct the training, their input has greatly improved our trademarked (in SA) routing techniques (name pending))
 
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