Annual Leave and getting sick

cjimme said:
Guess I'm currently a little tetchy on the topic as I've got one little runt working for me who takes sick leave at the drop of a hat. And every year he miraculously manages to take the exact number of days due to him.

Waiting for the day he posts on Facebook that he was out jolling at Gold Reef City on his sick day :).

But it's these good for nothings that ruin it for everyone. If you're geniunely sick - like can't get out of bed sick - then call it. Just don't be a real a@se and milk the system.
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exactly! Thats why I started this ;)
 
ChilliGirl said:
what contract did you give the guy? standard as per the law 30 days per 3 years sick leave? if so let him use it in a year if he wishes, thereafter it will at into his annual leave & then over to unpaid... he won't like his pocket being hurt.
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I'm off to count his sick days right now :D.
 
cjimme said:
Sure it's the law but when it comes time for a salary increase or promotion you don't think the boss is going to pick someone who goes the extra mile over you?

Someone puts in a bit more effort over someone who tries to take everything they can from the company?

I know who'd I'd want on my management team and it isn't someone who's petty enough to try and claim their sick days from their annual leave.

It sends all the wrong messages about your attitude to work. So stick to the law but don't expect to move up - you'll always be a low level worker unless you start to take your work seriously.
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Frankly any company that is going to be petty over a few sick days and complying with the law is not one any sensible person would want to work at. And they'll probably have a bunch of poo-flinging monkeys in management. And one has to wonder what other laws they're breaking or attempting to break. And passing someone over based only on requiring the company to comply with the law is itself almost certainly illegal. I'd be happy to see any company engaging in such practices given several solid kicks to the nuts by the relevant authorities.

There is one thing I learned working - companies will screw you over, so you should always be looking out for yourself and maximising your own benefit.

Madman88 said:
Personally I think its cheeky, but thats the law.

There is an attitude with some of my staff that they have a right to take sick leave even if they're not sick. I now have to demand a sick note for everything.
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That may not even be legal according to some labour law experts.
 
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noxibox said:
Frankly any company that is going to be petty over a few sick days and complying with the law is not one any sensible person would want to work at. And they'll probably have a bunch of poo-flinging monkeys in management. And one has to wonder what other laws they're breaking or attempting to break. And passing someone over based only on requiring the company to comply with the law is itself almost certainly illegal. I'd be happy to see any company engaging in such practices given several solid kicks to the nuts by the relevant authorities.

There is one thing I learned working - companies will screw you over, so you should always be looking out for yourself and maximising your own benefit.
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We really look after the people that work for us - free lunch, time off whenever you need it and we're really flexible if you have an emergency and need to run off for a few hours.

It's a little sad that you think all companies will screw you over every chance they get.

But I don't think you should be advising people to be this way - it's not the case everywhere and your advice could cost them a good chance at a promotion or a great job.

It's like asking a divorcee for marriage advice ... they've been burnt so their advice is always - look after yourself and never give everything of yourself. Problem is that if you don't give it a good shot you may never have a good marriage.
 
Personally I do not find anything wrong if a person claims back sick leave, though to be honest when I was in executive level positions previously (or in owning businesses now)I never came across a case like this. I would not hold it against someone if they did though PROVIDING:

1. They are an asset to the company
2. They do more than they are expected to
3. They do not have a 'name' for doing sub-par work
4. They do not have a 'sick day trend'.

For the employee that does everything expected of him, or even more, I would never begrudge them this right. Their annual leave is there for them to recharge their batteries because quite frankly I set high (not unreasonable) standards. They work hard for their annual leave days, and when they became sick while working I would not have a problem with them taking sick days, why should I have a problem if they take sick days during their leave?


/begin sermon
Employees is the most important asset in any business, why would I not treat them fairly and as important as they are? It has been proven time and again that happy, positive and motivated employees are more productive. I can personally vouch for it. I have been asked to help out companies in trouble previously, and many times the problem was the morale in the place. By working on that expenses go down, sales go up. It really is a win win situation. Even so-called problem employees can be encouraged to become one of your best employees.
/end sermon
 
dakeyras said:
/begin sermon
Employees is the most important asset in any business, why would I not treat them fairly and as important as they are? It has been proven time and again that happy, positive and motivated employees are more productive. I can personally vouch for it. I have been asked to help out companies in trouble previously, and many times the problem was the morale in the place. By working on that expenses go down, sales go up. It really is a win win situation. Even so-called problem employees can be encouraged to become one of your best employees.
/end sermon
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Unfortunately not all companies operate like that.
 
Its a really nice thought that the labour act has indeed taken into account

Always know that the difference between sick leave and Defined annual leave is simple:
Sick leave is leave due to you as you were unable to work,require a drs certificate of proof of incapacity.
Annual leave is your leave within a 365-or financial year that you are owed,and under the company policy can be taken at any time up to 20 days(again dep on company)

IF you get ill on you leave,you werent going to work whether you were ill or not,thus your incapacity hasnt prevented you from working,you had no intention of working as you took your leave.

You will not,or there is absolutely no obligation on the employer to refund you those leave days.
 
everything in life is in moderation.I see some comments here where people say that this type of company is not a company you should work for,or you should work for a company that is lenient

This is the dream job yes but heaven help the company if the shoe is on the other foot.
Company gives you leave whenever you want,but is abit slack on its payroll,ie you dont get your money on time

Its fine for employees to take advantage on a company,but not a company to an employee.

Cant we just get some moderation? Where a company treats their employees well and the employee respects and delivers what is expected.
 
It does indeed look ambiguous to the labour act, and that is exactly what I am trying to say however poorly it would Seem.When I say obligation to employer, I challenge you even though it is LAW,to take a months leave,get ill (by chance or by nuclear reactor Japan Issues) to reclaim whatever time you were sick during that time back to Annual Leave.

Even though it is Law,I have yet to see anyone attempt to do it,or challenge a company to it.
I wish you luck,let me know if you come right and how the CCMA reacts to it if you do get that far
 
Greg C said:
It does indeed look ambiguous to the labour act, and that is exactly what I am trying to say however poorly it would Seem.When I say obligation to employer, I challenge you even though it is LAW,to take a months leave,get ill (by chance or by nuclear reactor Japan Issues) to reclaim whatever time you were sick during that time back to Annual Leave.

Even though it is Law,I have yet to see anyone attempt to do it,or challenge a company to it.
I wish you luck,let me know if you come right and how the CCMA reacts to it if you do get that far
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erm dude i have a relative who works in payroll and hr in a large SA company and they have confirmed they do do this
 
i thought the times of slavery and employee abuse were long over in SA as well, like it is in Europe. The law is there for good reason. In Europe the Unions have agreed on terms with employers to create a good work environment. And that did not harm the economy, or am I wrong? I guess it would be different in businesses where the boss gets the full pay out, and every cent taken from the employees could go into some of the luxuries he needs and deserves for enabling people to work :)

Well, I find this still very interesting how people see this scenario. I personally never came into this situation, and hope that I never will be there. But....if I would be so sick that I have to stay in bed its justified to claim sick leave. And I believe that any decent company would benefit from this as well, due to a more happy employee who will not abuse the system and give his utmost to catch up on lost time.
 
Greg C said:
It does indeed look ambiguous to the labour act, and that is exactly what I am trying to say however poorly it would Seem.When I say obligation to employer, I challenge you even though it is LAW,to take a months leave,get ill (by chance or by nuclear reactor Japan Issues) to reclaim whatever time you were sick during that time back to Annual Leave.

Even though it is Law,I have yet to see anyone attempt to do it,or challenge a company to it.
I wish you luck,let me know if you come right and how the CCMA reacts to it if you do get that far
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I work for Sasol, and we can do it. You just need to submit a doctor's sick note confirming that you have been off sick, and the normal leave gets converted to sick leave.
 
Then apparently, as it stands I have not been working for the most generous companies. Makes me a sad panda

geezer said:
I work for Sasol, and we can do it. You just need to submit a doctor's sick note confirming that you have been off sick, and the normal leave gets converted to sick leave.
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You can also have your hair cut during company time - well at least the part that grew while you were working. ;)
 
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