Antenna installation and alignment

[Azimuth]

The new "100Mbps class" is well-publicised, but do we know that the "old" limit was 30Mbps ?
I've only ever seen Teejaybee refer to the 30Mbps limit based on his discussions with Telkom reps.
Does the "old" limit relate at all to LTE Category 2 at 50Mbps ?

I've learned that the following speeds may apply to SA base stations:

- 2Mbps
- 4Mbps
- 8Mbps
- 12Mbps
- 14 Mbps
- 20Mbps
- 30Mbps
- 40Mbps
- 60Mbps
- 100Mbps

Some of the low speeds come as a surprise but might explain performance in some locations. Congestion would be an even bigger issue here.

Disclaimer: source is a bit ambiguous whether figures are channel bandwidth or user bandwidth.

 

[Azimuth]

With this particular installation I need to decide on an appropriate Poynting product that supports 2300MHz (Telkom Mobile LTE).

I wonder if I should ask Poynting if I can test three products against each other? The LPDA-0020 (from jcheek's installation it seems the ultimate for Telkom Mobile LTE), the XPOL-06 or twin OMNI-0069's.

While it seems clear that there is NLOS I have to wonder about signal reflection from those hills.

I had quite a successful weekend as far as this installation goes. We found that the signal level indoors fluctuated between 1 bar and 3 bars LTE reception ... due to two TM base stations ... both approximately 700m away.

Edit 1: the "1 bar base station" is 740m away, the "3 bar base station" is 806m away. Do we then deduce that a base station is selected based on a distance calc but over time signal in dBm gets preference??

Edit 2: scratch that, the "1 bar base station" seems to be 1795m away, so who knows why it is picking up before the closer base station with stronger signal. Note I am only speculating because I don't know which Cell_ID belongs to which site.

While I suspected the above right away, it was easily confirmed with the Cell_ID which still reflects on the early batches of B593's (B593u-91). The mix of RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ clearly hinted at this though.

So through some digging I obtained the location info of the base stations and drove to one of them. Back on the roof I obtained LOS with the help of my 300mm lens. Binocs or a telephoto lens are key to a site survey! The other (weaker) base station was behind hills, like a mini great wall of china.

I did the indoor and outdoor test with the B593. Indoors we always got 1 bar LTE signal initially; this changed to 3 bars once the router locked onto the stronger base station. Outdoors on the deck we got 4 bars.

With the XPOL-06 I got 5 bars and effectively increased signal from -113dBM indoors (internal antenna) to -84dBM through an outdoor antenna! Further fine tuning I got -83dBm.

Like TJB, the speeds aren't as high as some base stations but I did achieve stability and proper LTE upload (before 2-3Mbps; after 8-9Mbps).

Since I mostly used my DSLR, I still need to sort out the photos, then I'll update with pics.

 

[sajunky]

While I suspected the above right away, it was easily confirmed with the Cell_ID which still reflects on the early batches of B593's (B593u-91). The mix of RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ clearly hinted at this though.

So finally you found that Cell ID is essential for successful antenna installation. It takes 288 messages (mostly yours) to realise this. <G>

Jokes aside, I think you should update your first page to include essential information. Not many people will have sufficient spare time (or patience) to follow your learning curve...
You wanted it sticky, just make it right.

 

[Azimuth]

Indeed it was useful but not essential. We kinda have to work without it until it is (hopefully) added back. (Referring to B593s-601)

At the end of the day, I still would have aligned to the base station I had LOS to. Also, Cell_ID and Site ID have no correlation. For all intents and purposes, as far as I can gather, Cell ID is a meaningless identifier.

Edit: ginggs has posted the the marching scheme used by Cell C. Can anyone else confirm for the other operators?

P.S. I knew you would enjoy my inclusion of Cell_ID. I did contemplate leaving it out.

 

[sajunky]

Indeed it was useful but not essential. We kinda have to work without it until it is (hopefully) added back. (Referring to B593s-601)
[...]
Also, Cell_ID and Site ID have no correlation. For all intents and purposes, as far as I can gather, Cell ID is a meaningless identifier.

Please explain highlighted part. What is Site ID in your opinion? And why Site ID is relevant, while Cell ID is not?

 

[Azimuth]

Site ID is what the cell operators use to identify their base stations. It is displayed on signage at the base station. Is there a way to match Cell ID to Site ID?

Case in point, I don't know why I thought the "1 bar signal" base station was at the address I entered. It now seems to be 1795m away. I have the Site ID's but don't know which Cell_ID is for which site.

 

[sajunky]

Site ID is what the cell operators use to identify their base stations. It is displayed on signage at the base station. Is there a way to match Cell ID to Site ID?

Case in point, I don't know why I thought the "1 bar signal" base station was at the address I entered. It now seems to be 1795m away. I have the Site ID's but don't know which Cell_ID is for which site.

Case in point, Site ID has relevance, but only for network operator engineering team accessing the site.

Please explain why Site ID should have any relevance to yourself when tuning antenna to the tower. It can be leased to many other network operators and owner's equipment could be currently out of order by example. No relevance for Site ID in my opinion.

But you said before that Site ID is important while Cell ID is not. It is why you must give explanation for this statement or say "sorry I was wrong".

 

[ginggs]

Site ID is what the cell operators use to identify their base stations. It is displayed on signage at the base station. Is there a way to match Cell ID to Site ID?

MTN, Vodacom and Cell-C normally refer to the Cell ID without the last digit as the site ID. I don't know about Telkom.

i.e. site ID = 545, Cell IDs = 5451, 5452 5453
Where 5451, 5452 and 5453 are three different cells on the same mast.
The last digit could indicate the direction the cell faces, e.g. 1=North, 2=Southeast, 3=Southwest and also whether it is a 900MHz or 2100MHz cell. (see here)
Different operators have different schemes for this.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks ginggs. TM seem to use a different scheme then.

 

[Azimuth]

Case in point, Site ID has relevance, but only for network operator engineering team accessing the site.

Please explain why Site ID should have any relevance to yourself when tuning antenna to the tower. It can be leased to many other network operators and owner's equipment could be currently out of order by example. No relevance for Site ID in my opinion.

Agreed.

But you said before that Site ID is important while Cell ID is not. It is why you must give explanation for this statement or say "sorry I was wrong".

If I can match Cell_ID to a Site ID, then the former will be useful to me for confirmation. Ginggs has posted the Cell C scheme but TM seem to be far more cryptic.

Site ID isn't important in the alignment itself, it's just interesting to see when you visit the base station. Of far more significance is the operator logo which you are looking for.

Site ID should be useful when I report an under-performing base station to the operator.

 

[ginggs]

Thanks ginggs. TM seem to use a different scheme then.

Can you give us some examples of the cell IDs and site IDs you are seeing on Telkom?

Site ID should be useful when I report an under performing base station to the operator.

With MTN, Vodacom and Cell C the Cell ID has been very useful for reporting faults and requesting the locations of a base stations.

 

[Azimuth]

Can you give us some examples of the cell IDs and site IDs you are seeing on Telkom?

Will do ginggs, as soon as I unload my DSLR.

With MTN, Vodacom and Cell C the Cell ID has been very useful for reporting faults and requesting the locations of a base stations.

Point taken. Now just to figure out how to match the ID's for TM.

 

[Azimuth]

This is my follow up to this post.

When I arrived there were 3 bars LTE signal but I had to factory reset the router to gain access. After the reset, it remained on 1 bar signal.

I was quite surprised at this speed test. When I first installed the LTE router, the speeds were around 8Mbps down (got 25Mbps with an LPDA-0092 - admittedly then, in the wrong direction) Notice the atrocious upload speed.

A separate speed test for confirmation of the Neotel speed test server. Ping is too high and upload is poor.

Moved the whole setup outside to test indoor vs outdoor LTE reception.

After powering on the LTE router, signal jumped to 4 bars immediately...

...but speed test was a bit sick.

XPOL-06 chosen for outdoor antenna.

 

[Azimuth]

XPOL-06 assembled. Like Lego compared to the XPOL-0002.

10m cable connected, ready to rock 'n roll.

I'm on the roof, confirming direction (from the ground you can't see the base station).

"3 bar base station" with LOS.

"1 bar base station" over a low lying mountain range and consequently NLOS.

Boom! Full signal after doing LOS antenna alignment.

Promising speed test, perfect upload speed. Oddly, we could not get higher. I know this base station can do more than 30Mbps.

Back indoors, down to 1 bar signal again. I couldn't complete the installation because I didn't get a bracket in time. Also, the roof is too slippery and I almost fell off. We decided to route the cable under the eves instead.

It's pretty obviously what the benefits of using an outdoor antenna are.

 

[sajunky]

ginggs has requested to give us examples of Cell ID, not pictures. Besides, I can't see Cell ID on the first two pictures.

 

[Azimuth]

Patience comrade, I'll get there. The pics aren't for you, they're for the other 99% of users of this thread.

 

[jcheek]

Can you give us some examples of the cell IDs and site IDs you are seeing on Telkom?

Here's a half-answer:

These are some pics of a non-ATC shared site near me which hosts MTN, Vodacom, Cell C and Telkom base-station equipment :


Google Earth Streetview. Note that the Streetview imagery is old (2009) and only the original operator (Vodacom, in the "fake rock") is on the site at this date.


June 2014 view. Note that 3 other operators have now climbed onto the same site.
The operators are : Telkom Mobile (8ta) - green cabinet on the left; Vodacom - fake rock container centre at the back; Cell C - small grey cabinet centre front; MTN - additional green cabinet to the far right.


Vodacom base-station equipment with "Site ID" visible.


Telkom Mobile base-station equipment with "Site ID" visible.


Cell C base-station equipment with "Site ID" visible.


MTN base-station equipment with "Site ID" visible.

So in summary :

Vodacom Site ID : B4394 (Garsfontein); Cell_ID : Unknown

Telkom/8ta Site ID : NER4006S; Cell_ID : possibly 1622 (I have no way to verify this)

Cell C Site ID : 114 (Garsfontein VC); Cell_ID : Unknown

MTN Site ID : T8163; Cell_ID : Unknown

 

[Azimuth]

ginggs has requested to give us examples of Cell ID, not pictures. Besides, I can't see Cell ID on the first two pictures.

Cell ID 42; unknown Site No.

Cell ID 202; Site No. JC1714.

Best RSRP we could obtain.

 

[Azimuth]

Another one from memory, my own when still using TM: Cell ID 174; Unknown Site No.

 

[sajunky]

To many pictures and useless.

Don't expect to find matching pattern Site ID to Cell ID. Site ID is part of property administration database, Cell ID and RNC belong to engineering database (for network management and remote control). Such efforts will be fruitless.

Could you please post picture of the B593 page "Security Settings" -> "ACL Settings" ?