Any point to bg?

Actually I should send this idea to Blizz and see what they say.

Implement a raid pug option where you can zone into, say, KZ and get teamed with 9 other randoms. Then we go wipe on Attumen all night. After everyone gets gatvol and zones out, Blizz mails us each a badge. Maybe like 1 for each hour we spent wiping on him.

Win, yes?
 
Skurm said:
Actually I should send this idea to Blizz and see what they say.

Implement a raid pug option where you can zone into, say, KZ and get teamed with 9 other randoms. Then we go wipe on Attumen all night. After everyone gets gatvol and zones out, Blizz mails us each a badge. Maybe like 1 for each hour we spent wiping on him.

Win, yes?
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Its called the LFG channel.

And as opposed to wiping, ppl actually kill the bosses and get epics. Instantly. And why is this? Ah, cause they know the strategies and formula for the instance. The instance is farmed by pugs.

If you get "gatvol" of AV you kinda just AFK and get, hmmm, a nice 15 min debuff.
 
The instance is farmed by pugs.
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The point is, easy or not, it still takes some actual effort, coordination, teamwork, skill, strategy, and tactics, and you're relying on random drops, and other people outrolling you. And if you/your raid FAILS you get NOTHING. SQUAT. ZILCH. NADA. F0K0L.

As opposed to pressing the spacebar every minute or two, hanging around for 15 minutes and getting a token and a couple hundred honour even if your side loses.

If you wanted to make 'welfare' PVP akin to 'welfare' PVE, at the very least you'd remove ALL honour and tokens from BG losses.

The concept is simple. In PVE you have to WIN to get something. In PVP, for the most part, you don't.
That's cockeyed, and everyone knows it. Quit kidding yourself.
 
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Ok you win. Kara is hard rofl!

BG's are fun btw. Perhaps you should try fighting the baddies instead of trying to leech?

Note I say "trying", as the other players won't take kindly to your leeching attempt and would probably just mark you AFK in which case you get NOTHING. SQUAT. ZILCH. NADA. :)
 
It's not that Kara is easy or hard. It's that it takes some kind of effort on your part. You have to contribute. You have to down bosses. You can't target the MT, type /follow, watch Stargate and collect your fat loots two hours later.

How many people would do BG's just for the fun of it anyway. I doubt you'd see ANY Horde in AV if they implemented a 'no win, no honour' policy.

And most people don't even bother with reporting people AFK anymore. Leechers have figured out workarounds already. As long as people will be able to get something for nothing, they'll find ways to abuse it.
 
Skurm said:
It's that it takes some kind of effort on your part. You have to contribute. You have to down bosses. You can't target the MT, type /follow, watch Stargate and collect your fat loots two hours later.
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I agree, pre-tbc was different, back then you could have 15 guys afk (where hunters got their autoshot-afk nickname?), and still take down bosses

In TBC its different, raids are smaller, fights such as Brutallus/M'uru have no room for slacking
 
That's the nature of PVP.

You need both sides to participate, and therefore you need a minimum amount of reward as an incentive.

If you made it so that only the winners got something, no-one would show up as you said. The rewards are higher if you win, obviously, which acts as incentive to try harder.

PVE and PVP are different playstyles, you cannot compare them directly, as I was attempting to point out but obviously the point was lost on some.

You just cannot expect gear you get from farming an instance / raid with experienced players to be awesome in PVP if you don't take part in PVP yourself. Simple really.
 
http://www.notaddicted.com/forums/showthread.php?t=828

An oldie but a goodie

The reek of easy purples is a stench that no gamer can pass up. Fathers who are relegated to 1 hour play sessions between putting the kids to bed and "together" time with the wife know the scent well. College students who actually plan on passing their midterms can smell it. People with jobs, families, friendships, and social lives know all too well the sweet aroma of easy to obtain epics.

In response to player outcry (or perhaps Blizzard just saying "screw it"), World of Warcraft now offers the coveted PvP Gear collections for the low price of 2-3 hours a day, 3 days a week, 2 weeks in a row. While this is a slap in the face to gamers who toiled ceaselessly in order to earn High Warlord or Grand Marshall, everyone else is flying high on the new PvP system.
With the advent of this gear giveaway comes the inevitable exploitation of Blizzard's generosity. The anti-afk mod, the BG bot, and the little brother are all popular ways of earning the new PvP gear for cheaper than advertised prices.

While farming hacks like ICQ and WOW Glider remain popular options for players, it is fairly easy to spot someone using one of these programs. Going AFK in Battlegrounds is a very popular option, but often results in backlash from teammates. Players who contribute to the BG and help win the game will usually look at you with disgust and freely recall your deeds to the official forums, their personal websites, and WoW GMs.
If you plan on activating an anti-AFK program and doing your taxes during a BG round, make sure to take a few minutes to make yourself look like a contributing member of the raid. A good way to accomplish this is to run with the group, deal some damage, and get a couple of HKs

However, if you don't have time for this, you can employ a slightly different tactic. The map to the left outlines a path that a character on autorun can traverse with little obstacle. This straight line will take you to the choke point where the Horde and Alliance usually encounter each other first.

Basically, you will be traveling with the group until you reach the enemy’s battle line. But while your allies are cowardly milling around in front of the opposition, your afk character will break through the enemy's front ranks. Your allies will follow your brave charge with reckless abandon, pushing their adversaries back into their base and winning the game. The masses will exalt you and the choirs shall sing your praises. Once your golden idol has been constructed, you'll never have to worry about your reputation in the battleground again.

Another good option for an AFKer on the go is to run in tight circles around your flag. First, take your character to the Stormpike Graveyard (Alliance) or Frostwolf Graveyard (ne'er-do-wells). Next, using a series of stacked magazines (preferably sorted chronologically) apply slight pressure to your right arrow key. Now just hit your autorun key and your character will start to run around the flag. Observing players will either think you're A) Disconnected or B) Really worried about being ganked by a rogue. Either way, they won't blame you for your bizzare behavior.

If you have a hunter, you can attach your anti-afk key to a frost trap, so you lay one of those down every 60 seconds or so. Mages can also look productive by attaching their frost nova spell to the AFK button. Come to think of it, most instant cast abilities will work; the only thing that won't work is a macro that yells: "Hey I'm actually at dinner with my cousins right now!!".

Robutt Programs

WOW Glider advertises itself as a program that can automate all of the behaviors of a normal player. An excerpt from a WoW Glider distribution site reads:

There are a few WoW macro and Bot programs out there. But this one is different. This one is designed to do only what an actual player would do in the game… WoW Glider does not do anything a player would not do in the game so it does not get noticed.

I would be inclined to agree with this if it included “This -- of course -- assumes that most players robotically move from mob to mob and often run into buildings and walls.”

While this is a fine program for leveling up a character, it is destructive when used in a strategic setting. Watching a bot play in the battlegrounds is like watching a white person dance to hip-hop; he gives a good effort, but everyone can tell something isn't quite right.

Macros work well here, like ones that say "Whoops!”, “Sorry”, or “That was stupid of me!”. It also helps to set your bot loose in a secluded area like the Coldtooth or Irondeep Mine. Then just spam the chat channel with “SOLOING MINE DND”.

Many times players will enlist the help of their younger siblings, idiot friends, or lonely grandparents to grind reputation in the battlegrounds. This can be an efficient and lucrative way to amass Honor Points. The only downfall is that none of these people know how to play wow good, and none of them care about your characters.

Being a jerk is always a good solution to keeping your friends and family in line. However, you run the risk of them ruining your characters in retribution. A better way to approach the situation is through cleverly designed macros.

A simple macro that you instruct someone to hit before each battle is an excellent way to avoid blame in the Battlegrounds. A few good examples are:

"Teaching goldfish to play, please DND"

"Help! Someone has broken into my house and is playing my characterz!"

"Drunk dad is giving game a try. Don't get him mad or he'll hunt you down irl."

You can also get people off your back by using creative guild names like, "Hellen Keller's Finest" or "The 101st Charles Mansons". No matter what method you use, just make sure to be patient and look over your friend's shoulders constantly; they most likely have plans to rob your character and sell your account.

Doing whatever you want and complaining on the Official Forums

While the aforementioned practices illustrate healthy ways to save face in the Battlegrounds, nothing beats a few minutes a day spent on the official WoW forums. A good way to go about this is to complain about other people doing the things that you do.

When they see that you have publicly denounced the practice of BG farming, no one will think you are guilty of it yourself -- after all, Blizzard's anti-hypocrisy filter would have blocked your post! If anyone accuses you of botting, just turn it around like you're playing a massive game of "Mafia". With a little practice, you will soon become the new McCarthy of Warcraft.
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Ah man, it seems like it takes more effort to effectively AFK in a BG than it does to actually partake in it lol!

I guess if you really wanted to you could, but you gotta face the consequences. Blizzard recently perma-banned Glider users so, yeah, be my guest and give it a whirl ;)

A battleground takes tactics, quick reflexes and good team work to win. The battle can shift and you have to adapt.

There is no "stand here", "jump out of the fire" or "switch places" or whatever messages popping up on your screen telling you what to do. If you don't understand how to play your character in a PVP environment, you will probably die and lose.

I guess that is why ppl try to AFK, but it is ultimately to your own disadvantage to do so and the consequences can be severe. Blizzard has already indicated that they will not tolerate such behavior.

So what, ultimately, is the harm in an AFK player (who probably cannot play his class) obtaining some S1/S2 gear after months and months of dodge AFK tactics? Are you honestly telling me this player will be a threat to you, even if you are fully equipped in raid epics?

What is the real problem here - you want your raid gear to be equal or slightly worse than PVP gear? Why do you not want to grind PVP gear like the rest of the players? If you are raiding for gear to PVP then you are deluded.

You can easily PVP to get gear for raiding as you have done, but at some point you will have to get raiding gear to progress into further end-game raiding content.

If you are saying that PVP takes no skill, that is a whole new thread on its own, and one I'm not willing to take part in cause its tired and old. All I am saying is that the skill set for PVE and the skill set for PVP are mostly different, and the gear should reflect that difference.
 
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On second thought, I agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
 
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Skurm said:
S2 gear is.not.an.accomplishment. It's nothing to be proud of.

Refute that if you can, rather than spinning the issue around and around and obfuscating the whole thing.
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Focusing on your point, since the rest are all filler and I actually have work to do:

The equivalent to S2 gear in PVE aint anything to be proud of either, since you are just going through the motions of a strat that some other guild figured out.

S4 Gear = Best for PVP and alright for PVE (class dependent)
T6 Gear = Best for PVE and alright for PVP (class dependent)

In arena, things are different, but so too in Sunwell.

An arena player cannot use his gear to successfully raid Sunwell, and a raider cannot use his gear to do top level arena.

Forget about time and effort and all that ****. If raiding is so tough, don't do it. Just PVP if that is the gear you want. Stop moaning ffs and just enjoy the damn game.
 
Cloud said:
The equivalent to S2 gear in PVE aint anything to be proud of either, since you are just going through the motions of a strat that some other guild figured out.
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Sorry... but this is just soooo wrong.
The equivalent of S2 in PVE is tier 5. That entails killing Kael + Vashj. Two of the most tactical bosses in TBC.

With all due respect, 3000000 guides wont help people focus more. :sick:

It is one massive accomplishment to any guild that have managed to down them... They truly are that hard... :eek:
 
Both PvP and PvE gear are important

PvP gear works well against players - PvE better against NPC's. So what's the deal?

You need to ARENA for PvP gear
... which makes it easier to score well in BG's
... which makes it easier for you to buy PvE gear
... which makes it easier to do heroics/kara/gruul/zul/hyjal/etc/ and eventually end game sunwell etc.

A manly man's man always has 2 sets. Me- I've only been 70 for a week and I'm only worried about getting Kara ready. uncle IMBA says I still owe him 2.6 gear points before I can go.


Oh and rogues ... train your lock picking skills ... not only am I able to pick the locks of Alcatraz heroic and Shadow labs ... but I picked Karazhan's gate as well :D
 
S1 gear = Tier 4
S2 gear = Tier 5
S3 gear = Tier 6
S4 gear = Sunwell PVE gear level items

Badge loot gear... I would say is pretty much between Tier 5 / 6.
It allows a lot more people access into Tier 6 content without having to kill / farm tier 5 content.
 
http://news.bigdownload.com/2008/05/13/pvp-vs-pve-blizzard-on-world-of-warcraft/


There appears to be a divide between PvP and PvE players. Some believe the risks and rewards of PvP aren't high enough, while others think that PvP is too unbalanced to be worth the effort. Do you think there should be a stronger blending of the PvP and PvE experiences?

Tom: We prefer that players experience a mix of content instead of pigeon holing into one kind of gameplay. The game ends up being more fun for more players that way. We like to create the game mechanics to encourage players to do different things. That's not to say we're trying to force people's hands if they want to do something exclusively. A player can focus on PvP in Arena Tournament and be successful, but we try to put in mechanics to allow or encourage crossover. I would liken it to questing, where it's more fun to do a variety of different ones instead of the same kill quests over and over. In the same way changing up quest types and areas are fun, changing up gameplay is fun. We often comment that although players may prefer one kind of game over another, even hardcore PvP players enjoy the PvE content quite a bit.

--- Straight from the horse's mouth
 
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