Article: Amend property ownership in constitution: ANCYL

[a-person]

You want to know facts? Read the Farmer's Weekly. I did last week for the first time ever and for once I felt that claims and news articles like this have no basis in the real world. I read that only 6% of the ANC cabinet actually supports land redistribution. ANC fatcats liker money too much to see this country go the Zimbabwe route, think about it.

ANCYL says things like this to be in the uPress and to show uMami how uClever they is.

 

[thestaggy]

I would think it should be standing for youth type issues. Education, youth employment subsidy, AIDS/HIV awareness, care for young moms, child rights etc.

Last time I checked, trying to nationalize mines isnt really a youth type topic?

It is when the youth want to by-pass the hard work part and move straight along to the rich fat-cat part.

Nationalisation is NOT about uplifting the poor. It is about enriching a select few, that is all. They claim to have the interests of the people at heart, but all they have is their own self-interest at heart. The desperate poor just become a vehicle for the self-enrichment process.

Nationalisation will destroy this country. Guaranteed. This country has a long list of failed and troubled state run organs and now they want to fiddle with one of this country's life-lines?

 

[grok]

Coming from an ANCYL member that is not brainwashed etc

If a country and black people specifically let themselves be bullied by the lowest common denominator, the ones with the loudest mouths yet practicall no contribution then I'd rather see the whole thing implode & get it over so we can start from fresh after the fallout. Why expect me to care about the poor (and lets face it we're talking about the black masses here) when even my Africannes (by birthright) is being questioned? When the leaders they elected are stealing my and their future? When the stability of my country and my family's future is being threatened by calls for unworkable kiddie policies? Honestly, why do you think I should care at all?

The statements made by the ANCYL about nationalization of mines and expropriation without compensation are meant to catalyze social and economic changes and help fix inequality in this country.

When will the ANCYL ever say something they actually mean and mean what they actually say? Like shoot the boer supposedly actually means put the tea on I'm coming over for a chat? As for you not being brainwashed, I'm not so sure that 80% of the land statement sounds a lot like it's coming from some Julias lookalike type's mouth. Problem is since 1994 I've come to see the ANCYL as one blob of superfail after the other, kids running around shouting slogans with no substance left and right - full of noise, very light on actual solutions. You don't give a child a loaded gun and say play safe, yet blacks seem to have exactly that attitude towards their children.

Wide spread inequality? Growing anger amongst the poor towards the haves? What about the other way round, growing anger towards calling for unworkable solutions and destroyers of wealth and progress? Dude, you're looking at the wrong scapegoat. Your leaders can't be bothered to even provide textbooks to pupils, something my 15 year old could have done on her own if required to. Ask yourself why? It's not their money they have to spend, it's been budgeted for out of tax, yet they cannot even be bothered to make sure it gets to the children who need it. Why not have the ANCYL march against that? Why not ask your leaders why their pockets are stolen full while yours are empty before you dare blame me for your situation.

Yes I know the damage apartheid caused, but I also recall we all sat down post 1994 and agreed to address the issues as a nation. That was before the ANC decided to backtrack on their word and demonise white people for their own shortcomings and criminal activities. Do you honestly think any sane person is going to voluntarily give up anything to the YL? Maybe if they showed an iota of intelligence in their approach towards finding practical, workable solutions, not so much while they're shouting 'lets destroy another African country' form the stages. Then I'd rather take what I have left and watch the whole house of cards collapse as predicted from a different part of the world.

So no. Grow up, stop threatening blackmail (give or we're going to take it all anyway) and especially pull your head out of your arse to get your leaders to stop plundering and start doing their jobs by putting workable solutions onto the table. Maybe then as a nation we can discuss proper solutions to problems instead of blame-pointing with the one hand while the other's feeling around for silverware to pocket.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Honestly it is the black people that have the position of power here and they doing nothing with it. I agree with everything evilstebunny has said.
Black people have been given, not earned, positions in every single place in this country from government to high ranking places in companies, and everywhere they have touched is falling apart. You can call me a racist if you want but look at the underlying issue here. Black people have been given hand outs and have accepted that this is how it should be and that they don't need to work. Now I'm not saying all black people are like this, I've met a handful of black people that deserve all the money they get, but, black people aren't interested in what white people have to say. We have tried. Look at the facts, there are at least 30 million uneducated black people that are intolerent to white people - other black people need to tell them, show them, and help them, but they won't.

I've always found it amazing that 2 black men will gang up on a white person, but take the white person out of the picture and they will gang up on each other. YOU, as black people need to uplift and empower each other. But you won't, you'll allow Julius to spout rubbish and support ideas that run the country into the ground. YOU, as black people will not stand up for what is right because it's easier to support the 'chief'.

The ball is in the black peoples court, it has been for almost 20 years, it's time to get off your arses and do something with it.

 

[Sly21C]

How can you say this, they benefit by getting a damn job. Oh I work in the insurance industry for multiple clients. Must ABSA, Standard Bank, Ford, Mazda, Jaguar and many other companies now pay for my car and my insurance? No - because I get a salary. It's idiots like you that are encouraging a culture of black entitlement. Whites must just give, give, give.

There are tons of rich, black people in this country but you're not blaming them for having money; no, they deserve it for their struggle and strife.

Honestly you and everyone else can **** right off. Get a job, work hard and earn your own ****ing money. Tired of everyone standing around wanting policies for handouts from people that have worked hard to earn lots of money. You know who owns just about everything in this country, the government, the BLACK government. Go ask your black homies for stuff, us white people don't have anything for you anymore! FFS

Obviously you are a selective reader. You probably only read the first paragraph, your blood started to boil and then started to type.

I just came from an ABASA event, a leadership dialogue. Joel Net****enzhe, Steven Friedman and Magdalene Moonsamy spoke and were largely honest about issues affecting this country. What comrade Joel said which I said something similar many times on this forum is that it is in the best interest of the wealthy and the middle class to recognize and admit that there is wide spread inequality in this country. To help close the inequality gap by engaging the poor or doing something to help them so they can help themselves (teach them how to fish so they can feed themselves forever scenario). Certainly complaining on forums and to friends/family will do nothing whatsoever to change things in this country.

 

[Sly21C]

If a country and black people specifically let themselves be bullied by the lowest common denominator, the ones with the loudest mouths yet practicall no contribution then I'd rather see the whole thing implode & get it over so we can start from fresh after the fallout. Why expect me to care about the poor (and lets face it we're talking about the black masses here) when even my Africannes (by birthright) is being questioned? When the leaders they elected are stealing my and their future? When the stability of my country and my family's future is being threatened by calls for unworkable kiddie policies? Honestly, why do you think I should care at all?



When will the ANCYL ever say something they actually mean and mean what they actually say? Like shoot the boer supposedly actually means put the tea on I'm coming over for a chat? As for you not being brainwashed, I'm not so sure that 80% of the land statement sounds a lot like it's coming from some Julias lookalike type's mouth. Problem is since 1994 I've come to see the ANCYL as one blob of superfail after the other, kids running around shouting slogans with no substance left and right - full of noise, very light on actual solutions. You don't give a child a loaded gun and say play safe, yet blacks seem to have exactly that attitude towards their children.

Wide spread inequality? Growing anger amongst the poor towards the haves? What about the other way round, growing anger towards calling for unworkable solutions and destroyers of wealth and progress? Dude, you're looking at the wrong scapegoat. Your leaders can't be bothered to even provide textbooks to pupils, something my 15 year old could have done on her own if required to. Ask yourself why? It's not their money they have to spend, it's been budgeted for out of tax, yet they cannot even be bothered to make sure it gets to the children who need it. Why not have the ANCYL march against that? Why not ask your leaders why their pockets are stolen full while yours are empty before you dare blame me for your situation.

Yes I know the damage apartheid caused, but I also recall we all sat down post 1994 and agreed to address the issues as a nation. That was before the ANC decided to backtrack on their word and demonise white people for their own shortcomings and criminal activities. Do you honestly think any sane person is going to voluntarily give up anything to the YL? Maybe if they showed an iota of intelligence in their approach towards finding practical, workable solutions, not so much while they're shouting 'lets destroy another African country' form the stages. Then I'd rather take what I have left and watch the whole house of cards collapse as predicted from a different part of the world.

So no. Grow up, stop threatening blackmail (give or we're going to take it all anyway) and especially pull your head out of your arse to get your leaders to stop plundering and start doing their jobs by putting workable solutions onto the table. Maybe then as a nation we can discuss proper solutions to problems instead of blame-pointing with the one hand while the other's feeling around for silverware to pocket.

I read a lot of "you", why should I tell my leaders anything? Why don't you? That's the problem with this country, everyone wants someone else to fix problems. Why don't you get off your chair and do something to help? Why don't you travel from your suburban area to a township on a weekend and do a speech or talk to young kids or motivate them? You busy this weekend? Rugby? All I hear is blaming, problem identifications and finger pointing but I hear no one saying they are actually doing something. There is an oversupply of finger pointers, angry people, problem identifiers and blamers but no one actually does anything. Everyone just goes to a braai and chats to friends about "cANCer". The problem in this country is not the Julius's, the problem are people that do nothing except complain, as if it helps.

 

[Sinbad]

No, the problem is the Juliuses. The complainers don't help, but they are not the problem.

 

[IzZzy]

Pretty sure freedom of expression is still allowed, might be but I'm not sure these days. Also think your whole post is an ad homonim...

 

[Sly21C]

Honestly it is the black people that have the position of power here and they doing nothing with it. I agree with everything evilstebunny has said.
Black people have been given, not earned, positions in every single place in this country from government to high ranking places in companies, and everywhere they have touched is falling apart. You can call me a racist if you want but look at the underlying issue here. Black people have been given hand outs and have accepted that this is how it should be and that they don't need to work. Now I'm not saying all black people are like this, I've met a handful of black people that deserve all the money they get, but, black people aren't interested in what white people have to say. We have tried. Look at the facts, there are at least 30 million uneducated black people that are intolerent to white people - other black people need to tell them, show them, and help them, but they won't.

I've always found it amazing that 2 black men will gang up on a white person, but take the white person out of the picture and they will gang up on each other. YOU, as black people need to uplift and empower each other. But you won't, you'll allow Julius to spout rubbish and support ideas that run the country into the ground. YOU, as black people will not stand up for what is right because it's easier to support the 'chief'.

The ball is in the black peoples court, it has been for almost 20 years, it's time to get off your arses and do something with it.

While we on the brutally honest, non-racial tip. The problem with you white people is that you have no idea how to approach a black person. 20 years into democracy you still don't know and haven't learned how to put across an idea to a poor, uneducated black person without insulting them. If fact, most white people I've come across think it's 100% justified to disrespect poor, uneducated black just because they are on a lower social status than them. If a black person speaks broken English, a white person thinks they are dumb and therefore deserves to be disrespected. If a black person is academically unintelligent, a white person thinks it is 100% justified to disrespect that black person because they have nothing to offer. White people have this mentality that if a black person has nothing to offer economically or otherwise, then they are useless and deserve to be treated as such. They deserve to be treated less than dogs, at least dogs offer laughter to white people. There are a lot of white people who feel it's 100% justified to be racist towards Julius and his supporters by calling them monkey and a ka**irs because he sang "Ayasab' amagwala" aka "dubul' bunu", because of his controversial comments and because of his broken English.

Now how do you propose this country move forward if these draconian mentality? Add that our past? It's only been 18 years since the fall of Apartheid. Add that racist comments from white people on News24. And then you expect poor black people to listen to what white people have to say? You expect black people to listen to white people's condescending tones, disrespect, etc? Wake up boet!!! What I have realized is that a poor person would rather support the Malema's of this world rather than being made to feel like they are nothing by people who think it's justified to treat people who have nothing to offer economically. At least in a world of poor people where there is no running water and infrastructure there will be some sort of respect.

Instead of doing this finger pointing exercise that most South Africans are great at, you should look into yourself. Next time you want to help this country or contribute positively by engaging a black person, you must respect them and treat them like human beings. There is no way issues will be addressed if there is no common courtesy and respect, people will be busy trying to defend their dignity and pride instead of addressing issues. This notion of "respect is earned" may work in Australia and Britain, but this is not Australia and Britain.

If you and your friends, for example, come to engage ANCYL members or some other groups of black people. And then the debate gets heated and then you use terms like "get off your arse". The debate will then become derailed and personality attacks will follow and then real issues will left on the floor, trampled on by the two parties debating each other. The approach is very important.

 

[Sly21C]

No, the problem is the Juliuses. The complainers don't help, but they are not the problem.

Wrong! The Juliuses are the accelerator pedal, the complainers are the sound the accelerator makes and there aren't any brakes. And that is a big problem.

 

[Nicodeamus]

Wrong! The Juliuses are the accelerator pedal, the complainers are the sound the accelerator makes and there aren't any brakes. And that is a big problem.

I agree, they are doing what the Nazis are doing, using the poor people's condition to further their own political agendas,

 

[Messugga]

While we on the brutally honest, non-racial tip. The problem with you white people is that you have no idea how to approach a black person. 20 years into democracy you still don't know and haven't learned how to put across an idea to a poor, uneducated black person without insulting them. If fact, most white people I've come across think it's 100% justified to disrespect poor, uneducated black just because they are on a lower social status than them. If a black person speaks broken English, a white person thinks they are dumb and therefore deserves to be disrespected. If a black person is academically unintelligent, a white person thinks it is 100% justified to disrespect that black person because they have nothing to offer. White people have this mentality that if a black person has nothing to offer economically or otherwise, then they are useless and deserve to be treated as such. They deserve to be treated less than dogs, at least dogs offer laughter to white people. There are a lot of white people who feel it's 100% justified to be racist towards Julius and his supporters by calling them monkey and a ka**irs because he sang "Ayasab' amagwala" aka "dubul' bunu", because of his controversial comments and because of his broken English.

Now how do you propose this country move forward if these draconian mentality? Add that our past? It's only been 18 years since the fall of Apartheid. Add that racist comments from white people on News24. And then you expect poor black people to listen to what white people have to say? You expect black people to listen to white people's condescending tones, disrespect, etc? Wake up boet!!! What I have realized is that a poor person would rather support the Malema's of this world rather than being made to feel like they are nothing by people who think it's justified to treat people who have nothing to offer economically. At least in a world of poor people where there is no running water and infrastructure there will be some sort of respect.

Instead of doing this finger pointing exercise that most South Africans are great at, you should look into yourself. Next time you want to help this country or contribute positively by engaging a black person, you must respect them and treat them like human beings. There is no way issues will be addressed if there is no common courtesy and respect, people will be busy trying to defend their dignity and pride instead of addressing issues. This notion of "respect is earned" may work in Australia and Britain, but this is not Australia and Britain.

If you and your friends, for example, come to engage ANCYL members or some other groups of black people. And then the debate gets heated and then you use terms like "get off your arse". The debate will then become derailed and personality attacks will follow and then real issues will left on the floor, trampled on by the two parties debating each other. The approach is very important.

Buddy, talking in a condescending manner to a stupid person is not how white people talk to black people, it is how white people talk to all people, including other white people. You want white people to conform to your standards but you don't seem to be willing to conform to ours. If I speak to a stupid person, I will speak down to them. I speak down to children to an extent. If you are my equal, I will speak to you equally, be you black, white, Indian or what have you, and I have done so many a times in my past.

With regards to giving to the community. I pay a good 30-40% of my hard earned money in tax to the community. I work well over 200 hours per month, overtime I do not get paid for, meaning that that 30-40% is in fact an even greater percentage of what I should actually earn. I work my ass off for the community and yet you want more from me? I'd like to see the community function without my money supporting them.

You mention racist comments from white people on news 24. Need I remind you of the recent spat of racist remarks from black people as well? As least the whites get condemned but I don't see anybody doing as such for the bloody idiots at the youth league who can spew whatever bile they wish without so much as a consideration for those that they may offend.

You've (YES YOU, Not the idiot Malema or his cronies, YOU) managed to push me with your comments to the point where I will do everything in my legal power to NOT do anything for this country. I will follow the leadership's example and strip this place bare of whatever it has to offer and flee when it goes wrong end up. I'm sick and tired of black people EXPECTING white people to sacrifice and give things up for their benefit. It's not your bloody right, it's a privilege to have people train you and educate you and take you under their wing. I've had people do that for me, vastly experienced people and I will forever be in their debt. The difference is that I show them that appreciation while I get no such thing from black people. I've attempted to depart some of my knowledge, in my own time and at my own initiative, to guys working with me, but they simply didn't want to make the effort of meeting me half way and simply expected the privileges that come with that knowledge to be handed to them without doing any of the work, the same work I had to do to get where I am today. Screw this sense of entitlement.

 

[wily me]

Buddy, talking in a condescending manner to a stupid person is not how white people talk to black people, it is how white people talk to all people, including other white people. You want white people to conform to your standards but you don't seem to be willing to conform to ours. If I speak to a stupid person, I will speak down to them. I speak down to children to an extent. If you are my equal, I will speak to you equally, be you black, white, Indian or what have you, and I have done so many a times in my past.

With regards to giving to the community. I pay a good 30-40% of my hard earned money in tax to the community. I work well over 200 hours per month, overtime I do not get paid for, meaning that that 30-40% is in fact an even greater percentage of what I should actually earn. I work my ass off for the community and yet you want more from me? I'd like to see the community function without my money supporting them.

You mention racist comments from white people on news 24. Need I remind you of the recent spat of racist remarks from black people as well? As least the whites get condemned but I don't see anybody doing as such for the bloody idiots at the youth league who can spew whatever bile they wish without so much as a consideration for those that they may offend.

You've (YES YOU, Not the idiot Malema or his cronies, YOU) managed to push me with your comments to the point where I will do everything in my legal power to NOT do anything for this country. I will follow the leadership's example and strip this place bare of whatever it has to offer and flee when it goes wrong end up. I'm sick and tired of black people EXPECTING white people to sacrifice and give things up for their benefit. It's not your bloody right, it's a privilege to have people train you and educate you and take you under their wing. I've had people do that for me, vastly experienced people and I will forever be in their debt. The difference is that I show them that appreciation while I get no such thing from black people. I've attempted to depart some of my knowledge, in my own time and at my own initiative, to guys working with me, but they simply didn't want to make the effort of meeting me half way and simply expected the privileges that come with that knowledge to be handed to them without doing any of the work, the same work I had to do to get where I am today. Screw this sense of entitlement.

Excellent post and the same attitude are prevalent from many people. We are SICK of these "hand me all, even your brain" entitlements. Like with respect everything you want you have to earn.

 

[HavocXphere]

Post of the day.

Perhaps. Except this part...its more appropriately called joke of the day:

[...] and the YL will keep quite for a while [...]

it is in the best interest of the wealthy and the middle class to recognize and admit that there is wide spread inequality in this country. [...] To help close the inequality gap by engaging the poor or doing something to help them so they can help themselves (teach them how to fish so they can feed themselves forever scenario).

Except its not fckin working. A decade+ of ANC rule and yet by widely accepted measures of inequality (Gini) inequality has gotten worse. So when the ANC or any ANC supporter opens their mouth about fixing inequality...well...I'm skeptical.

Bonus comment: The reason its not working is because our useless government takes R102 million and spends it on a conference that will as all others before it just produce hot air.