Article: Israel attacks barbaric: ANC

Garyvdh said:
Sure no country has the right to annex land, and you probably already know that Marine and I both oppose the settlements in the occupied areas.
Not all Israeli political ideas are good ones. We acknowledge that.
But Israel is by far not the only country trying to annex in the world today... and Russia and China are by far the bigger threats in that regard.
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The problem with marine is that even though he disagrees with the settlements, he doesn't actually acknowledge or apparently appreciate their role in this whole cycle.
 
marine1 said:
What I am saying and it went totally over your head is that throughout history hoiw many times have the Jews ben persecuted? How many regimes have tried in vain to wipe them out?
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How many times and why did this happen in particular to the Jews,in all these cases were the Palestinians involved so you gotta make them pay for others sins,is that what you are trying to say?
How many more times?
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So be proactive about some future attack on yourself by er taking over your innocent neighbours house and oppressing him even after the current house you are living in was his and that's why he is screaming at you everyday because you stole his house with the help of the British and French?Lol thats making sense now punish the Palestinians because the Nazi's etc massacred the Jews right?

Now that they have a homeland with great power and success, this wont happen again.
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Its happening right now,except this time Zionist run Israel is the culprit and so many Jews are blindly supporting it,why is compassion not a two way thing,you want compassion for the holocaust that's fair and compassion for the Palestinian people to have their lands returned to them is fair also.

One of the reasons I am all for the state of Israel. Muslims have enough already, how many Islamic countries?
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I'm Muslim and I don't need any Muslim state,I have South Africa and I'm pretty happy here.

marine1 said:
So many experts here how many of you have spent time in Israel?
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I've been there once,I was surprised they treated me well even though I'm a Muslim,but what does that have to do with anything,going there doesn't change the fact that it was built on Palestinian lands while side lining Palestinians out.

daveza said:
I'm curious as to why a religious group is entitled to their own homeland.
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Thats a good question,If Israel was simply a state free of any religious or ethnic bias I don't think we would be having this issue right now.Israel would have been just fine and there would either be two states living in harmony or even one big state accommodating both sides.
 
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OrbitalDawn said:
The problem with marine is that even though he disagrees with the settlements, he doesn't actually acknowledge or apparently appreciate their role in this whole cycle.
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The settlements are a big issue, yes.... but at the end of the day they are just one of many big issues.
I also wish they would stop and revert immediately to 1967 borders.
But you cannot just ignore everything that has happened since then.
Remember that far better and far more knowledgeable negotiators than you or I have been sitting there in the USA trying to unravel this thing for almost a year now.
And if they can't find consensus, then what hope have we?
Neither side is willing to let go of their big issues.

so at the end of the day, maybe this thing can really only be decided by who has the bigger gun?
 
daveza said:
I'm curious as to why a religious group is entitled to their own homeland.
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Have you asked the ISIS rebels that? They are busy trying to carve two countries (of their own countrymen) up into one religious homeland.
 
porchrat said:
Ah but the Israelis could easily agree to withdraw the minute hostilities end. Right now they clearly have no intention of ever withdrawing. That is Israel's land as far as Israel is concerned. Do you think this attitude is correct and justifiable?
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Depends I don't have a problem with it for security. I can't say if I lived in a Israeli town that would come into range of Hamas rockets if settlements were handed over to Palestinians I'd oppose them.

If it was solely for annexation then obviously yes of which some certainly are.

Israel though has given up land for peace in the past and most Israelis would give up the settlements tomorrow if it put an end to rockets and suicide bombers.

They removed settlements from Gaza in 2005. What did they gain from it?

Nah just build big walls and have access control like they currently do but instead don't pack the area behind it with practically immovable civilian settlements clearly demonstrating their intent to stay there forever.
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So Hamas is just going to stand idly by and do nothing? Walls you might have noticed are not very effective in keeping a mass of protesters at bay.

No construct it on Palestinian land and negotiate from there. I'm simply saying they shouldn't be building settlements on Palestinian land. That is unjustifiable as there are plenty of alternatives. All it looks like right now is Israel snatching more land.
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Well the issue of settlements and annexing land is very clear to someone far away looking at it on a strategic geopolitical level. The people on the ground with rockets raining down on them not so much.


OrbitalDawn said:
As did you. If Hamas stops firing rockets and acknowledges Israel and Israel still continues to expand their settlements then what?
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Again with avoiding the question. One must wonder why
 
PAL_ZIO_israel-palestine_map_loss_of_land_70.jpg


Yes it's a big image, in this instance I'm not gonna post a thumbnail or resized version.
 
Cray said:
Indeed, please enlighten us, did you visit the West Bank and Gaza? Must have been quite a fact finding trip to give you insight that we cannot gain from every major news site on the planet.
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He won't answer, he never does.
 
Garyvdh said:
Have you asked the ISIS rebels that? They are busy trying to carve two countries (of their own countrymen) up into one religious homeland.
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Oh well then it must be a good thing if ISIS want it.
 
ponder said:
PAL_ZIO_israel-palestine_map_loss_of_land_70.jpg


Yes it's a big image, in this instance I'm not gonna post a thumbnail or resized version.
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Thanks very nice picture detailing the exact land issues.

The stark difference between 1946-1947 is huge and how did the UN ever justify this baffles me.No wonder the Palestinian leaders at the time opposed it,who would willingly concede so much of their land for nothing?It honestly doesn't make sense,did the world just expect the Palestinian people to roll over and play dead?

How can anyone defend such injustice against the Palestinians?Was the world feeling sorry for the Jews and in their grief blindly gave them another nations land(or rather gave the Zionists land),so lets solve injustice with further injustice,two wrongs make a right,lol honestly what in the world was the UN at the time thinking?!!Look at the mess it has left since then with the biggest loosers still being the Palestinians until today.

Is this justice in anybody here's eyes?
 
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falcon786 said:
Thanks very nice picture detailing the exact land issues.

The stark difference between 1946-1947 is huge and how did the UN ever justify this baffles me.No wonder the Palestinian leaders at the time opposed it,who would willingly concede so much of their land for nothing?It honestly doesn't make sense,did the world just expect the Palestinian people to roll over and play dead?

How can anyone defend such injustice against the Palestinians?Was the world feeling sorry for the Jews and in their grief blindly gave them another nations land(or rather gave the Zionists land),so lets solve injustice with further injustice,two wrongs make a right,lol honestly what in the world was the UN at the time thinking?!!Look at the mess it has left since then with the biggest loosers still being the Palestinians until today.

Is this justice in anybody here's eyes?
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Except, it wasn't their land... it never was.
Before 1917 they were part of the Greater Ottoman Empire.
After 1917 they were governed by Britain up until 1948.
After 1948 It was Israel except for the land set aside for them by the UN.

Seriously, this is History 101.
 
Garyvdh said:
Except, it wasn't their land... it never was.
Before 1917 they were part of the Greater Ottoman Empire.
After 1917 they were governed by Britain up until 1948.
After 1948 It was Israel except for the land set aside for them by the UN.

Seriously, this is History 101.
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So the homes that the Palestinians where forced to leave didn't belong to them? If you dispute the claim of the Palestinians to that land then how do you defend the Jewish claim that comes after. Why aren't the exiled Palestinians allowed to return to Israel?

Edit: Please enlighten me as to the owner of the land if not the people living there before 1947?
 
Cray said:
So the homes that the Palestinians where forced to leave didn't belong to them? If you dispute the claim of the Palestinians to that land then how do you defend the Jewish claim that comes after. Why aren't the exiled Palestinians allowed to return to Israel?
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A house is not the same as a country.
The homes may have belonged to them, but the country did not.
They were subjects of the Ottoman Caliph (and reluctant subjects I might add - they did not like him at all).
They therefore had no claim to the land - end of story.
And I might add.... that the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews actually had a prior claim - going all the way back before 200 BC.
 
Garyvdh said:
A house is not the same as a country.
The homes may have belonged to them, but the country did not.
They were subjects of the Ottoman Caliph (and reluctant subjects I might add - they did not like him at all).
They therefore had no claim to the land - end of story.
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Then by your same rationale the Jews had no right to the land either - end of story!

Also, please advise as to why Palestinian refugees cannot return to their homes within the state of Israel. They owned the land privately, surely and enlightened country like Israel shouldn't be expropriating private land.
 
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