Article: Israel attacks barbaric: ANC

[OrbitalDawn]

The problem is that Israel is continually expanding their territory, even in the absence of aggression. Hamas in turn uses these expansions as a pretext for their aggression, which I am sad to say, is valid. It is tantamount to an invasion.

Don't get me wrong, I support Israel's right to exist, but they are also part of the problem.

Agreed.

http://www.eu-un.europa.eu/articles/fr/article_5621_fr.htm





As I said, legitimate and representative.

Interesting, but as I said, more out of desperation than anything else. Peaceful protest and resistance doesn't work. Palestinians who don't support Hamas also have their homes destroyed and their land annexed. All this fosters extremism.

 

[marine1]

By your logic all Palestinians deserve what they get because Hamas was voted into power, would you agree that if something happened to you as a direct cause of an ANC policy you would deserve it too? After all, the majority of South Africans voted for them..

Unless of course you want to distinguish yourself from the average ANC voter, but if that is the case you have to grant that Palestinians that don't support Hamas deserve the same concession.

You are right I agree with your first part. I am sure there are many Arabs there who actually want peace and dont want Hamas. Pitty there are not the majority

 

[assassin]

What a retarded post.
Have you even seen the incredible precision used by Israel?
They stopped short of hitting a stronghold when women and kids were seen on top of the building.
Now what were they doing in this building? Oh right human shields
FFS how stupid are people? Stop attacking innocent Israeli citizens then Israel will stop launching airstrikes.

How many times have Hamas broken the ceasefires? Are you that blinded and stupid not to see whats going on or are you Muslim? There can be no other logical reason

So by your logic they should just go out and stand in a field somewhere, don't forget that bombs are landing on ppls homes.

I didn't say Hamas didn't break the ceasefire, don't be obtuse. I question the amount of bombs and the area they are dropped in.

You must be truly sadistic or just plain retarded (or both) if you think ppl should leave behind everything and merrily let Israel bomb all they have, would you.

I also point out that not everyone supports Hamas but they are subjected to the Israelis aggression.

You say human shields, i say convienient excuse.

the casualties of the bombs tell a different story in the face of your precision BS.

 

[Cray]

Again, how are they supposed to respond? If Israel wanted to turn Gaza into rubble they could easily do it within hours. But they have not. Considering the capacity of their armed forces they are exercising restraint. This is an army that once bested 5 enemies on 3 different fronts simultaneously.

I would suggest they start with not killing people watching a football match?

Are you suggesting we give Israel a pass because they could be killing more people if they wanted to?

 

[assassin]

My argument is that they reduce enough to rubble to churn out a whole new set of Hamas recruits. If they wanted to take out just Hamas they could, I argue its more convenient to destroy most infrastructure.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Again, how are they supposed to respond? If Israel wanted to turn Gaza into rubble they could easily do it within hours. But they have not. Considering the capacity of their armed forces they are exercising restraint. This is an army that once bested 5 enemies on 3 different fronts simultaneously.

That doesn't change the fact that their responses are always heavily disproportionate.

They've shot how many rockets? 550. 0 Israeli deaths.

In retaliation? At last count - 98 dead, mainly civilians, including women and children.

In one shot - 8 members of a family died, 5 of them children.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...-israel-bombards-gaza-201471092828483396.html

 

[Packer]

The problem is that Israel is continually expanding their territory, even in the absence of aggression. Hamas in turn uses these expansions as a pretext for their aggression, which I am sad to say, is valid. It is tantamount to an invasion.

Don't get me wrong, I support Israel's right to exist, but they are also part of the problem.

It’s a security issue rather than a land grab. It makes excellent military sense to create a buffer zone between potential enemies and Israel proper. Interpose vigilant, trained & armed citizens between those with hostile intent and the bomb able school busses and shopping malls of Israel. Citizens would not be too put-out about running a beefed-up neighborhood watch – they are militarily trained and it’s for their own security and that of Israel. If the crunch comes and the males are called to war, the women can care for the home and children and quite capably, take over any neighborhood watch duties. Even in the case of total war the family unit stays together and an essential defensive service is being performed. A rational division of labour with borders, homes and families protected while the males kick butt. Procedures need to be rehearsed, duties allocated, etc. so that it all works smoothly and seamlessly. ‘Freedom fighters’ attempting to infiltrate through this gauntlet?

Bwahahahahahahaha!

 

[JackWhite]

Israels just being retarded now. All those casualties and ppl still insist they have precision. If precision it is, then they are attacking innocent kids

 

[thestaggy]

That doesn't change the fact that their responses are always heavily disproportionate.

They've shot how many rockets? 550. 0 Israeli deaths.

In retaliation? At last count - 98 dead, mainly civilians, including women and children.

In one shot - 8 members of a family died, 5 of them children.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...-israel-bombards-gaza-201471092828483396.html

So they need to wait for casualties on their side before reacting?

I would suggest they start with not killing people watching a football match?

Are you suggesting we give Israel a pass because they could be killing more people if they wanted to?

No. I am saying what are they supposed to do when constantly coming under fire? When is it okay to respond? Who gets to determine what an appropriate response would be?

 

[assassin]

Don't be crazy, he is highlighting the casualities from either side, and the woman and children especially. You choose to take what you will and clearly are blind to the rest.

 

[thestaggy]

It’s a security issue rather than a land grab. It makes excellent military sense to create a buffer zone between potential enemies and Israel proper. Interpose vigilant, trained & armed citizens between those with hostile intent and the bomb able school busses and shopping malls of Israel. Citizens would not be too put-out about running a beefed-up neighborhood watch – they are militarily trained and it’s for their own security and that of Israel. If the crunch comes and the males are called to war, the women can care for the home and children and quite capably, take over any neighborhood watch duties. Even in the case of total war the family unit stays together and an essential defensive service is being performed. A rational division of labour with borders, homes and families protected while the males kick butt. Procedures need to be rehearsed, duties allocated, etc. so that it all works smoothly and seamlessly. ‘Freedom fighters’ attempting to infiltrate through this gauntlet?

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Except their latest round of expansions were in response to a perfectly legal election outcome and went against global opinion, including that of its strongest ally.

 

[Cray]

So they need to wait for casualties on their side before reacting?



No. I am saying what are they supposed to do when constantly coming under fire? When is it okay to respond? Who gets to determine what an appropriate response would be?

Am not sure exactly, but 98 people Palestinians killed versus 0 Israelis would not qualify as an appropriate response. Do you think it appropriate, killing children when no isrealis have died?

 

[assassin]

Killing children in an scenario is reprehensible. Its not a scorecard at all.

 

[thestaggy]

Don't be crazy, he is highlighting the casualities from either side, and the woman and children especially. You choose to take what you will and clearly are blind to the rest.

Am not sure exactly, but 98 people Palestinians killed versus 0 Israelis would not qualify as an appropriate response. Do you think it appropriate, killing children when no isrealis have died?

No. I can see the casualties and those are regrettable. But I want the ''disproportionate'' crowd to tell me what an appropriate response would be? What must Israel do in the face of sustained rocket fire? No matter how inaccurate or ineffective it is.

Israel has not suffered any casualties, yet Israelis have to run around almost daily with sirens blaring and get to the nearest safe house. Is it fair that they have to go on like that?

 

[nivek]

To the guys that are justifying the air raids currently going on, i have a few questions.

1 Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world and thus far 400 tonnes of bombs have rained down, how is there any precision ?

Um, great point, Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas, and considering as you say 400 tonnes of bombs have rained down, yet there have been few civilian casualties, thats remarkable caution and precision shown by the IDF

 

[Nicodeamus]

Um, great point, Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas, and considering as you say 400 tonnes of bombs have rained down, yet there have been few civilian casualties, thats remarkable caution and precision shown by the IDF

Let us also not forget that Hamas is such a cowardly organisation, it houses their bombs where civilians are close by. It abides by the strict Islamic human sacrifice convention.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

So they need to wait for casualties on their side before reacting?

No, but purposefully and repeatedly killing civilians is simply not justifiable. That they could flatten Gaza if they wanted is irrelevant.

A schoolyard analogy:

- Kid A takes kid B's lunch.
- Kid B shoves kid A in the chest.
- Kid A takes a sledgehammer and caves kid B's head in.

Why don't they take the Munich approach? Small groups of operators go in and take out rocket installations. Why do they need to constantly bash the civilian populace into the ground?

And long-term, they need to stop stoking the aggression through their own actions. As I've said numerous times - it's in Israel's best interest to support the establishment of a prosperous and flourishing Palestine. Remove the fertiliser and soil from which the likes of Hamas grows. Stop giving them new recruits and a reason for existing.

 

[porchrat]

It’s a security issue rather than a land grab. It makes excellent military sense to create a buffer zone between potential enemies and Israel proper.

Then move in the military and clear people out to create a buffer zone. Taking land, annexing it, and moving more civilians into an area doesn't create a buffer... it just create more Israel.

Feeble justification is feeble.

 

[hellfire]

That doesn't change the fact that their responses are always heavily disproportionate.

They've shot how many rockets? 550. 0 Israeli deaths.

In retaliation? At last count - 98 dead, mainly civilians, including women and children.

In one shot - 8 members of a family died, 5 of them children.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...-israel-bombards-gaza-201471092828483396.html

You seem to forget the 3 boys that were kidnapped and murdered by Hamas militants in the run-up to the current situation (I am not even mentioning the terror attacks that came before that). The Hamas war is more than just rockets.

You seem to ignore that the rockets coming from Gaza are intended to cause death. Israel has not suffered casualties from the rockets because every building in Israel has a bomb shelter (and in the south of Israel almost every bus stop is also a bomb shelter). Coupled with the Iron Dome which shoots down 90% of rockets that are heading for populated areas, and you can see why there are no casualties. Israel cares about its civilians. They are not kept in harms way as human shields or as cannon fodder to display to the media. The lack of casualties is not due to a lack of intent from Hamas.

You also seem to ignore that air strikes with a danger of collateral damage are preceded by pamphlet drops, sms and phone calls to Gaza residents. The IDF actually warns the population (and thus their enemy) of the impending strikes. And yet, surprisingly, the areas in question are not vacated to try and preserve life. Why do you think that is?

Every death in this situation, whether Israeli or Palestinian, is a win-win situation for Hamas.

 

[nivek]

think there may be a shortage of civilian casualties too considering most of the images coming out of this conflict have actually been of Syria

speaking of which..cosatu, anc? nothing to say about assad?