Article: Israel attacks barbaric: ANC

[LazyLion]

Yup.
It's legal, but both unethical and immoral.
The Torah instructs one to seek righteousness and there is little in the UN agreement that is righteous.

Like I said... it wasn't necessarily fair. But that's what centuries of war had resulted in.
So the next step was to sort it out by negotiation and dialogue... oh wait... sorry. The Arabs and Palestinians immediately went to war.

 

[Saba'a]

LOL

 

[LazyLion]

But Gary, surely we're not just talking about 'might makes right'. We're talking about the here and now, the people who live there now, and what needs to be done for everyone that lives there to live in relative security and peace?

What needs to be done for everybody is what they did in South African AND Nambia.

Sit down around a table and thrash it out.

But the Palestinians didn't choose that route.
They seem to like fireworks too much.

 

[porchrat]

They were not the only inhabitants. See post # 232.

Doesn't really matter. It doesn't address my point. You still hold to the view that those on the land should have been given ownership of the land and simultaneously to the view that creating a state that resulted in a lot of folks getting tossed off their land was the correct way to go.

 

[LazyLion]

And they got it. The sad thing is if Israel waits until a Rhodesia situation they will lose a great deal.

And yet.... at the end of the day, negotiation and dialogue is the ONLY thing that is going to work.
Hopefully they won't lose too many people before they finally come to accept this.

 

[porchrat]

What needs to be done for everybody is what they did in South African AND Nambia.

Sit down around a table and thrash it out.

But the Palestinians didn't choose that route.
They seem to like fireworks too much.

Israelis didn't like that route either. They like land too much.

 

[falcon786]

Yup.

It's legal, but both unethical and immoral.

The Torah instructs one to seek righteousness and there is little in the UN agreement that is righteous.

Dave I'm guessing you are an actual Jew?I know Gary is not he just has an issue with Islam in general regardless of the issue at hand so he maybe using this issue as a scapegoat to further his own agenda's and everybody here fails to realize that he will never concede because that's just how he rolls.

What is your take on this if you are an actual Jew and how much of this do you think correct/incorrect or is Zionism = Judaism in your view?

Apologies for me assuming if you are not a Jew but honestly most of the Jews I know are DAVE.

 

[LazyLion]

You know zionists would not have settled as their policy was to drive out palestinians.

What? Evidence for this please?
You do realise there are Arabs and Muslims in Israel today who are full citizens, and who even serve in government and the military?

 

[daveza]

I don't think this is too far from the general Israeli sentiment -

"God gave us this land so it belongs to us and us alone"

( although if God gave me a land of sand and rocks instead of the Caribbean I would consider self-excommunication.)

 

[LazyLion]

I sincerely hope you realise its a silly analogy

No more silly than likening Israel to Zululand.

 

[LazyLion]

Doesn't really matter. It doesn't address my point. You still hold to the view that those on the land should have been given ownership of the land and simultaneously to the view that creating a state that resulted in a lot of folks getting tossed off their land was the correct way to go.

What I would prefer is not always the way the world works.
Again... life is not fair. Times are hard. Time to put your big boy undies on.

 

[LazyLion]

Dave I'm guessing you are an actual Jew?I know Gary is not he just has an issue with Islam in general regardless of the issue at hand so he maybe using this issue as a scapegoat to further his own agenda's and everybody here fails to realize that he will never concede because that's just how he rolls.

What is your take on this if you are an actual Jew and how much of this do you think correct/incorrect or is Zionism = Judaism in your view?

Apologies for me assuming if you are not a Jew but honestly most of the Jews I know are DAVE.

Awwww, just when we were getting on so well.... you have to start resorting to the personal attacks?

Is your position really THAT weak?

 

[ponder]

They fought the Caliph and won.

South Africa also got Namibia out of the deal.
It took nearly 90 years for the Namibians to gain independence.

Palestine

The United Kingdom had agreed in the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence that it would honor Arab independence if they revolted against the Ottomans. The two sides had different interpretations of this agreement. In the event, the UK and France reneged on the deal and divided up the area under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, an act of betrayal in the opinion of the Arabs.

The Arab side was already looking toward a large revolt against the Ottoman Empire; the British encouraged the Arabs to revolt and thus hamper the Ottoman Empire, which had become a German ally in the War after November 1914.[2]
The letters declared that the Arabs would revolt in alliance with the United Kingdom, and in return the UK would recognize Arab independence. Later, the 1916 Sykes–Picot Agreement between France and UK was exposed showing that the two countries were planning to split and occupy parts of the promised Arab country.

Namibia

Following the League's replacement by the United Nations in 1946, South Africa refused to surrender its earlier mandate to be replaced by a United Nations Trusteeship agreement, requiring closer international monitoring of the territory's administration (along with a definite independence schedule). The Herero Chief's Council submitted a number of petitions to the UN calling for it to grant Namibia independence during the 1950s. During the 1960s, when European powers granted independence to their colonies and trust territories in Africa, pressure mounted on South Africa to do so in Namibia. In 1966 the International Court of Justice dismissed a complaint brought by Ethiopia and Liberia against South Africa's continued presence in the territory, but the U.N. General Assembly subsequently revoked South Africa's mandate, while in 1971 the International Court of Justice issued an "advisory opinion" declaring South Africa's continued administration to be illegal.

 

[LazyLion]

Israelis didn't like that route either. They like land too much.

I disagree. They were never given the chance.

The very day after the UN partition plan was to come into existence, the Arab nations invaded. They never even gave it a few hours chance.
Things could have been very different.

 

[daveza]

Dave I'm guessing you are an actual Jew?

I'm not.

My Cornish surname sounds exactly the same as a very common Jewish surname but spelt quite differently - so you are not the first or last to ask the question.

I do however work for a Jew - salt of the earth guy.

 

[porchrat]

What? Evidence for this please?
You do realise there are Arabs and Muslims in Israel today who are full citizens, and who even serve in government and the military?

Full citizens... that can't marry each other

 

[ponder]

The very day after the UN partition plan was to come into existence, the Arab nations invaded. They never even gave it a few hours chance.
Things could have been very different.

The UK reneged on their original deal with the arabs.

 

[LazyLion]

I don't think this is too far from the general Israeli sentiment -
"God gave us this land so it belongs to us and us alone"
( although if God gave me a land of sand and rocks instead of the Caribbean I would consider self-excommunication.)

This describes about 99% of the countries in existence today.

 

[porchrat]

I disagree. They were never given the chance.

Oh I see they have tried to ask the Palestinians if they could annex land and build settlements on it and in absence of a response decided that constituted tacit consent. This is news to me Gary. Thank you for the [-]laugh[/-] information

(I'm just pointing out that they way you talk you only ever mention Palestinians as the bad guys at fault, I'm not sure you even realise you are doing it)

 

[LazyLion]

Anyway, time to head home now. Thank you all for a good conversation (well at least those of your who are able to remain objective and civil).
G'day.